Sonicorbiter - The Operating System

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, JBNY said:

So I am paying the $20 but this just feels like a money grab to me. I got this unit during its first few months of launch and it hasn't even been a year and the development cycle has ended? New features only include native dsd support for some DACs, spotify and songcast? For people using this on roon and have a DoP DSD DAC, this just feels like $20 for no reason. Extremely disappointing. 

WOW!  Yes, I work for Sonore.  Right now it is hard to believe some of the criticism here.  While I understand it is impossible to please everybody all of the time, some of this is just completely out of line.  In making the above statement do you have any idea how many man hours were required to develop the new firmware distribution?  I can tell you that there was a lot of hard work done to produce the new OS.  

You do not have to purchase the new firmware anyway...  your µRendu will continue to work as is without it...

[barrows]

21 hours ago, Elberoth said:

 

+1

 

Competing SOtM sMS-200 endpoint software had several updates and all of them were free.

 

It is even more surprising if you consider that the manufacturing cost if each unit is ~$150, so their profit for each unit sold (no dealer markup !) is around ~ $500.  

 

Unreal...  You do understand that the difference in manufacturing costs between Asia and the US, yes?  where do you think SOtM got their code from... just saying...  shady

[barrows]

4 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

OK so it's wise that a manufacturer doesn't talk about the primary, relative performance capabilities of its products.  And that's normal? hmmmm

 

Barrows - the other regular contributor from Sonore on this website - normally has plenty to say about sound quality performance.  Perhaps he can chime in?

 

Haha, hello!  While I am willing to talk about sound quality when it comes to differences I think are obvious enough (like going from copper based Rendu systems to System Optique) I stick with Sonore's policy for things which may, or not, affect sound quality such as new software like 2.8.  I have no opinion on this, and have only heard 2.8 briefly so far (my cards are on the way...).  As far as i know, most Sonore SO updates are to address operational issues, compatibility issues, and to add new features.  Hopefully the SO operating system is already robust enough to provide the best sound quality possible, on 2.7 and 2.8, but if people report differences, I'd be interested in those reports.  

[barrows]

32 minutes ago, micbro said:

I was using kazoo as per Sonore suggestion (MPD / DLNA and Kazoo) without issue on 2.7 .

I will experiment with your suggestion though.

I have not used it in awhile, but I am pretty sure you have to have "open home" for Kazoo to work properly.  When I used Kazoo my server (or NAS) was running Minimserver and bubble to have open home capability.  I suspect @vortecjr can confirm.

[barrows]

4 hours ago, vortecjr said:

I had a customer report this issue yesterday.  

 

“I received the 2.8 card today. I opened Roon, hit play, and it played fine for 20 minutes. Then it disappeared as a zone.

I tried unplugging the opticalRendu power to reboot, but can’t get anything but a red light. It appears as a Network Player on sonicorbiter.com but can’t connect when “Manage” is pressed.”

 

It turns out he was powering the unit with a JS-2 at 12V and the unit was overheating and shut down. The solution was to dial the voltage down to 7V.

Wow!  Very lucky that the opticalRendu survived 12 VDC input.  Kudos to John's protection circuitry.

[barrows]

55 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I received a 2.8 card from SGC. didn’t realize Adrian was going to send SE owners one for free but haven’t received that one yet, I can’t enable in Roon because Roon doesn’t see it in settings/audio. With 2.7 Roon does see it.

 

Hi, Here are some instructions to use for Signature Rendu SE owners.  With the Signature powered up and on the Network (working with 2.7 that is), open the sonic orbiter.com web interface, and click on the Signature to "manage" it.  Go to "system" and click on power down.  Wait for the Signature to shut off, when the green light on the back panel is OFF, turn off the switch on the back panel (this switch removes all power from the main board, there is no need to unplug, just make sure the switch is "off").  Carefully remove the 2.7 card from the unit, and install the 2.8 card, making sure it "clicks" into place, take your time, and be sure it is properly seated (it can be a little tricky, if you are not sure, wait until you are and feel the click of it seating properly).  Now turn "on" the switch on the rear panel of the Signature.  Be patient, wait for the unit to boot up.  The light on the back panel will start out red, after some time it will turn orange, and finally it will turn green.  Once the back panel light is green, open sonicorbiter.com again and click on the Signature to manage it.  Go to "apps" and click on software update, wait, when the update is complete, go back to the home page, and then go to software update again, and run the process again.  Yes, run software update twice.  When the update is complete, go back to "system" and click on power down.  Wait until the unit is powered down from sonicorbiter, then turn "off" the switch at the rear panel of the Signature.  Wait  for a few seconds, and then turn the Signature on from the back panel switch.  Wait while it boots; when the rear panel light is green you should be good to go.  

 

If it hangs and the rear panel light stays red, wait a bit longer, if it still does not go orange and then green, turn the switch off, wait ten seconds, and turn on again.  If it still does not go green (be patient, the boot process can take awhile), then you may have a bad SD card.

 

With ROON, remember you will have to go to "settings"-"audio"- in ROON to enable the Signature, and ROON will not see the Signature unless it is connected to the DAC and the DAC is powered up.

[barrows]

27 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

Thanks Barrows. I followed your directions and green light never came on. When I switched back to 2.7 green light does go on. Bad card?

 

Sounds like it.  I would use 2.7 until you get a new 2.8 card to try.  Contact Sonore directly and request a new card.  Meanwhile I would suggest enjoying music with 2.7.

[barrows]

@johnwilk, @André Gosselin, I am playing DSD 256 and DSD 512 here all the time (I oversample everything) with SO 2.8 with no issues, so I do not think your experiences are an inherent problem with SO 2.8.  This does not mean you are not experiencing problems, but i do find it a bit odd?  At this moment I am playing a native DSD 128 album via ROON (usually I would oversample this to DSD 256) just to test, so far no issues...

I would advise making sure your SO and ROON both have the most recent versions (run updates), and check again.

[barrows]

5 minutes ago, André Gosselin said:

@barrows Thanks for your advice, but I think I have honestly tried everything you suggested, without success. Yes it is odd, but that is the way it is, believe me. Reinstall the 2,7 card, and everything steams perfectly, PCM & DSD. Install the 2,8 card,and problems start to accumulate: difficulties booting the card, failure to update the software and maneuver through SonicOrbiter.com, unit shutting off, DSD64 playing but not DSD128, etc. If the orendu with SD 2.7 card works perfectly, this seems to indicate the hardware is OK. If simply installing SD 2.8 generate all those problems on my system, may I humbly suggest that the 2.8 update is somewhat responsible for that ?  I think your system is much more elaborate than mine with the top of the line Rendu model Are you running the exact same SO version that I have, or is it a special version ?

First, I am sorry you are having these problems, and by no means do I think you are doing anything "wrong".  Yes, i am using the Signature Rendu, but the software and main board are essentially the same as the oR, so I cannot imagine any differences  from how things work with the oR.  Unless there is something at fault with your oR power supply, which I also highly doubt.

 

There is one more thing I would like you to try before I hand you off to Jesus for further help (he handles most of this and is more aware of possible issues than i am).

 

If the oR will not boot up at all with the 2.8 card, then you would need a new card, but try this:

 

be sure the Network is all powered up and working, with 2.7 in the oR.  Shut down the oR from SO.com, then remove the DC cable from the oR.  Remove the 2.7 card and install the 2.8 card (make sure your DAC is connected via USB with a good USB cable and no add ons and is powered up).  Now power up the oR by inserting the DC cable (hot, make sure the power supply is running when you do this).  Allow as much time as is necessary for the oR to boot, wait until the rear panel light is Green which indicates the oR is fully booted and on the Network, and that it sees the Internet.  If it will not boot to the "green" condition, request a replacement card from Sonore.

If it does boot, then, open SO.com and run software update, when it says "return to main menu", do so (but do not re-boot), instead, run software update again.  With the second running of software update it should appear that everything is OK at the end of the list.  Now, go back to the main menu, and re-boot the oR through the "system" button on SO.com.  Give it time, do not worry if the screen says it cannot find the server, wait until the oR has the green light on it.  Once you have a green light on the oR, click the refresh button on your web browser, and SO.com should then be able to show the oR.  If you get here everything should be good and you should test again.

But, if the oR still does not fully boot (red light on the back panel), power cycle it by removing the DC cable from the oR, waiting ten seconds or so, and replacing the DC cable.

 

I do not know anything really about what problems could be occurring with 2.8 and the software update process, but I have had some issues here as well (I update all Signatures I build/upgrade here before I ship them out to customers), but following the above procedure has always resulted in success for me.  Sometimes the oR seems to hang in the re-boot process from SO.com (not fully booting, light on oR staying Red) but a hard re-boot by removing and replacing the power supply always clears the problem and allows the unit to re-boot fully to the "green" condition.  Oh yeah, it is a good idea to also go to "settings" and click "save" after the final re-boot as well-sorry forgot to include that, although it does not always seem critical.

 

Again, if none of this works, request a new card from Sonore.

[barrows]

7 minutes ago, Matias said:

I am still on 2.7 and every now and then my DAC vanishes from DAC Diagnostics. Rebooting usually works. Then JRiver cannot send audio to the ultraRendu. This interface is quite unstable for me. I was hoping 2.8 fixed this, well... I am not so sure now. Let's see when my card arrives.

Do you mean the Rendu loses connection with the DAC and will not play music, or???  What happens when you remove the ISO Regen?

[barrows]

34 minutes ago, Matias said:

Yes, does not play music. And hitting play on the JRemote the song shows playing a few seconds and then stops.

With or without ISO Regen no difference. And happens with 3 different DACs and 3 different USB cables I have tried.

Yeah, that is very odd behavior indeed.  I work from home, and my system is playing most of the day and evening, and I never seem to have problems of with Rendu device (microRendu, ultraRendu, or Signature Rendu SEoptical) loosing connection with the DAC.  Maybe it happens a couple of times a year...  Do you have any weird sources of static discharge?  Or it is possible you have some odd AC power issues?  As this happens with different DACs I am looking for problems which are outside the system, and common to all set ups.  Anything weird in your Network, or Ethernet cabling?  I would recommend occasional re-booting of the Network gear, maybe once a month or something like that.

[barrows]

4 hours ago, quark said:

Apparently a lot of ethernet cables are made in such a mass that often connection is not that good.

 

Good advice for everyone:  Do not buy Ethernet cables from, say, Amazon!  These are usually unknown manufacturer cables from China, which often do not meet their specification.  BJC CAT 6 and CAT 6A cables are made from very good Belden, bonded twisted pair cabling, and all are measured after termination to meet their specification, and they are not expensive!  Additionally, very occasionally even a good Ethernet cable will "fail" (we had this happen at RMAF once) so do not hesitate to test the cable (and it is a good idea to have some back ups around, they are not expensive).

This goes for USB cables as well. of course.  Un-branded made in china cabling is always suspect in my book.  And so are some of the "audiophile" products, but not all.  It makes sense to have a good baseline USB cable around for testing, like a Belkin Gold, even if you ordinarily use a USB cable from an audiophile company.  And for sure if one is experiencing connection issues between a Rendu and DAC, make sure to remove any USB widgets between the two to eliminate them as possible causes of communication issues.

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

They both got back to the Main Menu and I did the requested reboot on both of them. Somehow, that process didn’t complete but when I unplugged them, let them sit for a minute and then plugged them back in both units came back online. 

If you re-boot from sonicorbiter.com, and get the message: "cannot connect to server", or something like that, just wait a  minute, and refresh the webpage: the Rendu should appear then.  It seems to me, that sometimes, sonicorbiter.com times out, expecting the Rendu to re-boot faster than it does.  If you refresh the page after the Rendu has had a chance to fully re-boot, it shows up.

Perhaps @vortecjr can confirm my suspicion here.

[barrows]

Well, I am glad everything is good!  That is weird behavior, now that you are all updated, hopefully that will not happen again.  I do the update process quite often here, as I update every Signature I build and every Signature I upgrade to optical, and with the latest version of 2.8 everything goes pretty smoothly here, except for the occasional timeout/refresh cycle.  Of course, Networks can be weird, and there are so many variables, I guess it is not that surprising that there are many differing experiences out amongst Sonore users. 

[barrows]

31 minutes ago, Ultrarunner said:

I’ve got an opticalRendu and Ayre QX-5. I don’t know when they’ll update the QX-5 to native DSD, so I too can take advantage of the sonicorbiter update. Do you hear a significant sound difference between DOP and native DSD?

There is no sound difference between DoP and native DSD.  The only reason to desire the possibility of using native DSD is because it allows for the playback of higher rates of DSD:

 

DSD 64 via DoP requires the DAC to accept 176.4 PCM

DSD 128 via DoP requires the DAC to accept 352.8 PCM

DSD 256 via DoP requires the DAC to accept 705.6 PCM

 

So we can see, fo folks who want to play higher rates of DSD like 256 and 512, being able to accept DSD natively is an advantage, otherwise, there is no compromise to using DoP. 

[barrows]

6 hours ago, stray_cat said:

I know this is an old post but I installed my SSR signature rendu yesterday and I'm having a similar problem. Basically sonicorbiter.com cannot see it. After finding its local ip and accessing to via a browser I can only get a page that displays identity ie: "High Resolution Audio Streaming Device". with an option to upgrade from firmware V1.45 but I doubt that is referring to the Sonicorbiter version, is it?

 

Using an ssh app to try to shell in and check for the OS and version It prompts for a username and none of my guesses work lol. So I'm dead in the water here. Fortunately I'm hooked to it directly from the router and spdif out to a spare DAC with a headphone output just to set it up for Tidal/qobuz before I set it into the rig (big big hassle). 

 

Sure would appreciate any and all help or ideas!

Sorry for any confusion, it looks like you have the original Sonore Signature Rendu, and not a current model of Sonore Renderer (microRendu, ultraRendu, opticalRendu, or Signature Rendu SE/Signature Rendu SEoptical).  The original Signature Rendu (with SPDIF and I2S output, not USB) does not use the Sonic Orbiter operating system and cannot be accessed via the Sonic Orbiter web page.

[barrows]

22 minutes ago, stray_cat said:

Uh oh, Thank you barrows for the clarification, saving me a lot of time barking up the wrong tree lol. The SSR was exactly what I wanted due to its highly touted spdif output if combined with my active acoustic revive DSIX spdif cable which transformed my rig running it from my lowly node2 into the mojo mystique v3 dac 6 months ago, I had high expectations for the new chain that had the SSR as a source.

 

Re: Sonicorbiter.com I was going by vortecjr's reply to my thread titled:

Sonore Signature Rendu for Qobuz/Tidal only?

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168970.msg1791127#msg1791127

 

with a link to what I needed to do.

 

What could you recommend to stream Tidal and Qobuz where all my music comes from through this SSR? A micro or ultra rendu connected to the network? Something with an OS on a small SSD? Would a windows 7 laptop on the network running Tidal and Qobuz do it and would it be worthy in terms of SQ or would that likely negate gains from the SSR? All my research indicates this is a great streamer and I'd love to use it somehow. Thanks again in advance.

I am no expert on using Tidal or Qobuz as here i only play locally stored files.  I suspect @vortecjr, will have to be consulted to advise you as to the options for streaming to the SSR from Tidal and Qobuz.  

I do know of one way to do it, which would be to have a computer on your network running Audirvana playback software and accessing your Tidal and Qobuz accounts through Audirvana, there are likely other ways as well, which Jesus should be able to help with.  The SSR is compatible with Audirvana.

 

Indeed the SSR is a wonderful unit!

[barrows]

1 hour ago, Foggie said:

Have Lampi's an T&A dacs been considered for native support?

DACs which use the Amanero USB interface should work with Native DSD from any Rendu Series product, but it may depend on the specific firmware version the Amanero is running (and the Amanero interface has a very confusing number of software versions!).

I can confirm that Amanero USB interface running the 2006be11 firmware works with Native DSD from Rendu Series Renderers. 

[barrows]

5 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Are there any benefits with native DSD playback over DOP DSD?

Lower bandwidth to DAC?

I have never heard a difference when comparing native DSD to DoP when all else was the same.  I have also looked at processor activity for DoP vs. Native DSD and it is nearly the same, with any differences so small as t be inconsequential.  My conclusion is that there is no sonic benefit to Native DSD vs. DoP when one is sending he same sample rate, and one need not be concerned about it.

 

Of course, some  DACs can run at a higher rate of dSD with Native DSD, and this may be benefit, but thta is not about DoP vs. Native DSD, it is about higher rates sometimes being better.