Focusrite REDNet

[joelha]

Anyone care to share their latency, buffer settings, etc.?

 

Joel

[joelha]

OK, I have to confess, I could use a little help here.

 

I have the Mutec MC-3+ USB but don't know how to set Dante controller to sync externally with my Rednet D16.

 

When I try to check the box for that option, it doesn't stay checked.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks.

 

Joel

[mourip]

OK, I have to confess, I could use a little help here.

 

I have the Mutec MC-3+ USB but don't know how to set Dante controller to sync externally with my Rednet D16.

 

When I try to check the box for that option, it doesn't stay checked.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks.

 

Joel

 

I am out of town or I would post my settings. If you bought from Sweetwater just call them. They have a tech that specializes in Rednet and is very helpful.

[joelha]

Nice of you to even offer, mourip.

 

On another forum, I'm being told by one user that clocking an spdif cable out of the D16 is preferable to clocking the D16 itself via BNC.

 

I'll try to find ouit.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

[Serge_S]

On another forum, I'm being told by one user that clocking an spdif cable out of the D16 is preferable to clocking the D16 itself via BNC.

 

Hi Joel. Could you expand on this or post a link to that discussion. Slaving D16 to Mutec should not be inferior to running off of D16‘s clock, methinks.

 

Thanks,

Serge

[joelha]

Hi Joel. Could you expand on this or post a link to that discussion. Slaving D16 to Mutec should not be inferior to running off of D16‘s clock, methinks.

 

Thanks,

Serge

 

Sure Serge,

 

You'll need to find the relevant post, but it was made by rb2013 within the last few days.

 

AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio - Page 48

 

Joel

[esldude]

Hi Joel. Could you expand on this or post a link to that discussion. Slaving D16 to Mutec should not be inferior to running off of D16‘s clock, methinks.

 

Thanks,

Serge

 

Actually slaving a clock to an external clock is usually worse than using the free running clock. So slaving the D16 to a Mutec, though the Mutec clock is presumably a good clock, is likely to result in less accurate timing than letting the D16 clock itself internally.

[Serge_S]

Actually slaving a clock to an external clock is usually worse than using the free running clock. So slaving the D16 to a Mutec, though the Mutec clock is presumably a good clock, is likely to result in less accurate timing than letting the D16 clock itself internally.

 

I’d agree if D16 also did D/A. I don’t think it’s as clearcut when DAC is external.

 

I glanced through the discussion that Joel referenced. The OP there slaved D16 via WC input which produced worse result than Mutec re-clocking D16‘s SPDIF output signal. So, in both cases Mutec’s clock was used.

[esldude]

I’d agree if D16 also did D/A. I don’t think it’s as clearcut when DAC is external.

 

I glanced through the discussion that Joel referenced. The OP there slaved D16 via WC input which produced worse result than Mutec re-clocking D16‘s SPDIF output signal. So, in both cases Mutec’s clock was used.

 

Okay, just browsed through some of that. I don't trust sighted listening impressions for such differences. So I wouldn't put much weight behind it myself.

[Superdad]

Okay, just browsed through some of that. I don't trust sighted listening impressions for such differences. So I wouldn't put much weight behind it myself.

 

Those were not "sighted listening impressions" Dennis. He closed his eyes!

[tranz]

Those were not "sighted listening impressions" Dennis. He closed his eyes!

 

That is some proper blind testing!

[Clemmaster]

I updated my D16's firnaware when I first got it a couple of weeks ago. Probably a good thing to try.

I did update the firmware, to no avail.

 

Another annoying issue is that the Wifi breaks whenever I send audio to the Rednet. I bought a beefier router (Asus RT-AC56U, with dual core and 256MB RAM) but the issue remains.

 

Do you guys have a separated (managed) switch? Or do you use a consumer grade Router with the Rednet?

[mourip]

I did update the firmware, to no avail.

 

Another annoying issue is that the Wifi breaks whenever I send audio to the Rednet. I bought a beefier router (Asus RT-AC56U, with dual core and 256MB RAM) but the issue remains.

 

Do you guys have a separated (managed) switch? Or do you use a consumer grade Router with the Rednet?

 

I believe that RedNet does not support Wi-fi. I am not sure if that means that you cannot use a Wi-fi card on your PC for the ethernet out or if there cannot be a Wif-fi link anywhere between the PC and the RedNet device.

 

I use wired ethernet out directly to my D16 and then use the second port of the D16 to connect to my LAN.

[mourip]

Okay, just browsed through some of that. I don't trust sighted listening impressions for such differences. So I wouldn't put much weight behind it myself.

 

Those were not "sighted listening impressions" Dennis. He closed his eyes!

 

Can someone kindly tell me what "sighted listening impressions" means?

 

Do you mean impressions based upon theory rather than actually listening?.. or the opposite?

 

Or is this the endless measurement vs listening argument?

 

Or none of the above...

 

Thanks!

[Aleg]

None, of the above. It's the "Return of the Trolls", again!

[rgom]

Yup! Trolls. Hate em'

[esldude]

Can someone kindly tell me what "sighted listening impressions" means?

 

Do you mean impressions based upon theory rather than actually listening?.. or the opposite?

 

Or is this the endless measurement vs listening argument?

 

Or none of the above...

 

Thanks!

It means listening to component A vs B knowing which is which and then giving a comparison of how they sound different. Other factors beyond the sound quality itself pollute such comparisons to the point they are relatively unreliable.

 

So if someone says an external clock did all these wonderful things and they came to that conclusion knowing when the clock was in use I would discount that almost totally.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I don't have an opinion about these devices - am curious, and would like to follow this thread without having to read this useless bickering. Obviously there have not yet been any blind tests, measurements, etc...

 

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the same people who claim they don't need measurements to confirm the validity of their products because of their many happy customers (and low return rate), now claim that these same customers don't know what they are talking about ? Please. Lets drop this bull**** and let the story unfold.

[Dev]

^^ Couldn't agree more. I have been following these threads with great interest and fear due to all these trolling might get it locked. If you care, more active discussions on AOIP has been happening at these places

 

AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio - Page 56

 

Mivera Audio

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks for the links, but it would be nice to see some constructive discussions here as well.

[mourip]

It means listening to component A vs B knowing which is which and then giving a comparison of how they sound different.

 

Thanks. Was not really sure but that makes sense.

 

My personal subjective experience based upon replacing a pretty tweaked USB chain that included a REGEN, which I liked a lot, and a MUtec +3 USB , is that the REDNet devices offer a very big improvement over USB in nearly all areas of my listening experience.

 

I have not tried using the Mutec as an external clock but found that letting it re-clock after the D16 was a worthwhile improvement, enough to justify keeping it in my system regardless of it's expense.

 

I think that for audiophiles the direction of AOIP is so new that a lot of folks are curious but trying to sort out hype and speculation from content. I do find the bickering and passive aggressive posts a turn off. If I was new and reading this thread to gain information I might turn away without being able to form an opinion about the benefits... which I think are considerable.

[Superdad]

I think that for audiophiles the direction of AOIP is so new that a lot of folks are curious but trying to sort out hype and speculation from content. I do find the bickering and passive aggressive posts a turn off. If I was new and reading this thread to gain information I might turn away without being able to form an opinion about the benefits... which I think are considerable.

 

Hi Mourip:

 

I sincerely would like to apologize to you and the group if my one off-hand comment in this fine thread has somehow been interpreted as bickering or passive-aggressive.

Honestly, I was just ribbing Dennis (elsdude)--our resident skeptic of anyone's claims to hear things under non-double blind conditions--with my joke that people do close their eyes when they listen.

 

Having been in this hobby for over 40 years--and in the business for 30--I have done a truly countless number of A/B/A comparisons. Everything from passive parts, active parts, circuit topologies, wire, clocks, acoustic treatments, power delivery, even solder compositions and Ethernet cables. And despite all skeptism by those who choose not to trust their ears or their ability to set aside mental biases, I have been reliably, consistently, and in concurrence with others around the globe, been able to choose that which is the more natural and faithful to the source. (It really helps to use very natural but challenging acoustic music that is deeply familiar.)

 

With regards to audio over Ethernet, I fear that there too my motives and opinions have been wholly misinterpreted.

I am here referring to my mostly deleted participation in the active thread on the topic over at Head-Fi, where despite my factual posts questioning the availability of software support for AES67/Ravenna, I was banned from the thread due to arguments with a member of the trade--who has been banned from 6 major forums including this one (you all remember the infamous Blizzard?).

 

Anyway, to be clear, I am VERY supportive (not that it matters, no one here needs my support or approval) of progress in the area of audio over Ethernet. It is one I have been studying for more than eight years (an unreleased, and ahead of available technology DAC at Hovland Company--where I first enlisted John Swenson's services--included Ethernet input. Chris even saw it at CES about 3 months after founding this very forum). And John and I worked on developing a presently back-burnered USB to Ethernet Audio Bridge OEM solution for over a year (a thread about it is here).

So I feel that I am perhaps more clear-eyed than many with regards to AOIP--both its promise and it current limitations.

 

And despite what some claim are my vested commercial interests in USB, I am very much in favor of seeing--and being part of-- a revolution that will eventually lead to the demise of USB DACs. Though I make no secret of the fact that I hope such revolution does not remain restricted by the inherent (and well- known) limitations of S/PDIF. But I guess we have to walk before we run.

 

Again, I'm quite sorry that my joke--giving elsdude a hard time for dismissing sighted listening (a literal oxymoron)--derailed this enthusiastic thread. But please be clear: I am not a troll!

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

[sbgk]

Seems to be classic bullying behaviour, embarrassing.

[The Computer Audiophile]

It is one I have been studying for more than eight years (an unreleased, and ahead of available technology DAC at Hovland Company--where I first enlisted John Swenson's services--included Ethernet input. Chris even saw it at CES about 3 months after founding this very forum).

 

Hi Alex - I remember that conversation like it was yesterday. You were one of the only people at CES in 2008 who actually got computer audio and had an idea where it was headed. Plus, you were one of the only people who would talk to me at the show. The other manufacturers all "knew" this computer audio crap was just a fad and that computer based sources could never sound better that the existing disc spinners. It sounds laughable now, but that was the case back then.

 

Anyway, I want to back Alex's comments that he has been researching audio over ip for years and wasn't trying to offend anyone. When I saw the Ethernet port on his DAC in 2008 it was only a dream of how one would get audio out of the Ethernet port on a computer and into this DAC. I remember talking to Alex about how to get iTunes to send audio over Ethernet. My how things have changed.

[jelt2359]

Here is my subjective assessment (rank order):

 

1) D16>Mutec MC3 + USB> Yggy

2) uRendu>Mutec MC3 + USB>Yggy

3) Dual PC (CAPS Pipeline)>Mutec MC3+ USB>Yggy

 

I went deep into last night and this morning listening, comparing and taking notes. What struck me is that while my notes for uRendu and my Dual PC set-up contained comments about frequency extention, tonality, noise floor and timing, my comments on the D16 set-up were much less technical and much more emotional. I wrote down "engaging", "immersive","fluid" and "liquid". I connected more to the music with the Rednet set-up.

 

All the usual caveats apply. This is one persons opinion and I'm not making any definitive declarations about products or technologies.

 

 

For those interested in Rednet (AOIP) solutions, I will say the following:

 

a) The market for Rednet (Dante) gear is Pro Audio - not consumer. The D16 is overkill from a consumer standpoint. I really only need a small 2 channel device with AES. I have a full, very solid 1 rack unit device with 16 channels and connections I will never use. The uRendu by comparison is the size of a pack of cards.

 

b) As has been mentioned before but bares repeating - The device does not auto-switch for varying sample rates. If you are playing a 44Khz track and want to play a 192Khz track you need to go into the SW and manually switch 44 to 192. Not a big deal for me but for some this may be problematic. There is talk that there may be firmware later this summer that will address this. However, I have not seen confirmation in writing from the Mfg.

 

c)The D16 took a bit of time to set up and configure. While the uRendu was plug and play (10 minutes) It took me about an hour and a half to be up and running with the D16. It's not really that complicated after the first couple of times. There are even you tube videos available to help you get oriented. In comparison, dual PC systems in my experience with SW like Jplay, AO, and Bitsum are at least if not more complicated and more finicky.

 

d) As with many pro devices, you will not find a USB connection anywhere. This means no DSD.

 

If you have no problems with any of the above, you may want to check out AOIP products like the Rednet. The D16-Mutec-Yggy combo is now my main system with the following benefits:

 

 

- Best SQ that I have experienced to date in my system.

- I can still use all the playback SW I have with the free ASIO Virtual Sound Card that comes with unit (Roon/Tidal, Infinity Blade, JRMC, HQP).

- Connection is rock solid. No musical drop outs or sw glitches/crashes. Infinity Blade which I've always liked was very temperamental in dual PC/Jplay set up. It runs like a dream with D16.

 

While your caveats a, b and c keep me on the sidelines for now, I'm curious- have your impressions changed, when comparing Rednet to microrendu, now that you've had it for a while?