Optical Network Configurations

[jabbr]

Gulp ...

https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs504-4xq-in-a-4x-100gbe-switch-at-under-45w/

[Mike Rubin]

7 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Gulp ...

https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs504-4xq-in-a-4x-100gbe-switch-at-under-45w/

$800? Yowzer!

 

[robi20064]

Does any of you have some hands on experience working with Aricent's ISS solution? In particular I try to figure out why is there a default 50-60% CPU load on a QNAP QSW-IM1200-8C switch which is based on Aricent's tech under the hood. There are multiple ISS.EXE processes running (even with a debug switch) and some are taking significant CPU time. All this without any serious load (one Lumin device playing via Sonore OM with a Finisar SFP).

[jabbr]

9 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

$800? Yowzer!

 

I think the main thing that 100Gbe will enable from a common point of view is ultra low latency NAS — essentially the same latency/speed as if the PCIe NVMe card is on the local machine. 

[jabbr]

Future of networked SSDs

https://www.servethehome.com/ethernet-ssds-hands-on-with-the-kioxia-em6-nvmeof-ssd/

 

[dbastin]

5 hours ago, jabbr said:

Future of networked SSDs

https://www.servethehome.com/ethernet-ssds-hands-on-with-the-kioxia-em6-nvmeof-ssd/

 

I wonder if this approach will have benefits for NAS for the consumer market.

[jabbr]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:11 PM, dbastin said:

I wonder if this approach will have benefits for NAS for the consumer market.

Well, with a 100Gbe switch down to $800, this approach will enable NAS to have essentially native speed. VR is an application that comes to mind. NVIDIA is strongly positioned in this market.

[MartinT]

I'm just joining in as I have moved to optical connection between my EtherREGEN and a new Sonore Signature Rendu SE.

 

I have been enjoying myself trying out a few SFPs and LC fibre to listen for differences in replay, which can be quite noticeable.  Having tried multi-mode I have recently moved up to single mode and the current best sound I have attained is using HP JD094B-C 10Gbps SFPs from old servers at work, with a 5m single-mode LC cable.

 

I have tried to source the Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL but there appears to be no stock anywhere that I can find.  However, perusing a German supplier I have come across a compatible BlueOptics BO35J13610D SFP that seems to be at least as well spec'd as the Finisar, with laser not LED senders.  I have therefore ordered two SFPs plus a true glass fibre optic 4m cable.

 

Has anyone else come across the German BlueOptics brand?

[jabbr]

On 7/6/2022 at 5:37 AM, MartinT said:

I'm just joining in as I have moved to optical connection between my EtherREGEN and a new Sonore Signature Rendu SE.

 

I have been enjoying myself trying out a few SFPs and LC fibre to listen for differences in replay, which can be quite noticeable.  Having tried multi-mode I have recently moved up to single mode and the current best sound I have attained is using HP JD094B-C 10Gbps SFPs from old servers at work, with a 5m single-mode LC cable.

 

I have tried to source the Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL but there appears to be no stock anywhere that I can find.  However, perusing a German supplier I have come across a compatible BlueOptics BO35J13610D SFP that seems to be at least as well spec'd as the Finisar, with laser not LED senders.  I have therefore ordered two SFPs plus a true glass fibre optic 4m cable.

 

Has anyone else come across the German BlueOptics brand?

 

I don't know this brand but we companies actually make the SFP modules and most are rebranded from OEMs.

 

My original recommendation for Finisar is that they (a subsidiary of https://ii-vi.com/) actually make the SFP/SFP+/QSFP28 etc etc modules. They also make FaceID components for the iPhone etc... so they are the real deal. 

 

Other companies such as Avago (which is the parent of Broadcom) are also the real deal.

[MartinT]

When I get the chance to test the BlueOptics SFPs I will report back on their sound quality.

[MartinT]

I have now put the BlueOptics BO35J13610D 10Gbps SFPs into my EtherREGEN and Signature Rendu SE, together with a 4m length of BlueOptics single-mode LC-LC cable.  Everything negotiated and connected after a restart at both ends.

 

Although the difference is small, and the HP JD094B-C performed very well, the BlueOptics pull ahead in sheer leading edge attack and fine detail.  This is the best setup I have yet heard and I'm going to leave it alone now.  Job done!

[MartinT]

9 hours ago, MartinT said:

together with a 4m length of BlueOptics single-mode LC-LC cable

 

 

That was a mistake and it took me a while to figure out.  The ipolex LC-LC single-mode cable I was originally using sounds better (and has a thicker construction).  So the BlueOptics SFPs are good, but I don't recommend their cable.

[MartinT]

I've done a lot of SFP swapping today in order to double-check my findings and make a firm recommendation. I powered off the EtherREGEN when swapping SFP but hot-swapped SFP at the Sig Rendu SE end so as not to require a restart between sessions.

The optical cable was the ipolex throughout, which I definitely prefer over the BlueOptics optical cable.

There is not much in it, the HP SFP offers stiff competition but I give the nod to the BlueOptics for just a touch more sparkle at the top end, and that's all the difference I can hear. You can select according to system requirements, if your system already runs 'hot' in the treble then select the HP.

Final Recommendation
BlueOptics BO35J13610D 10Gbps SFP both ends
ipolex X000T56NEB OS2-LC-LC-D5M single-mode optical cable (choose length to suit)

[R1200CL]

Finally eye pattern measurements for EtherRegen 

https://www.open-end-music.com/forum/privatforen/thomas-michael-rudolph-tmr/651284-messungen-von-ethernet-infrastruktur-nur-lesen/page2

 

Use Chrome for automatic translation. 

[MartinT]

This is very interesting, thanks for the post. It makes me happy as I arrived at the Zero Zone PSU powering the EtherREGEN via a P10 regenerator purely by listening to four different PSUs without measurement.

 

Where there is discrepancy with my findings is with the use of an external clock. To my ears, on repeatable occasions, the AfterDark King external clock easily beats the internal clock in the ER for sound quality.

[R1200CL]

14 minutes ago, MartinT said:

To my ears, on repeatable occasions, the AfterDark King external clock easily beats the internal clock in the ER for sound quality.

This is what everyone agrees on. (Me too). 
 

So one can look at this that this eye pattern isn’t what to look for, and hence a total waste going 10 GB route. 
 

So obviously eye pattern and phase noise numbers doesn’t match, or how to express it. 

[MartinT]

Well, for me going the 10Gbps route by using an optical SFP in the ER's cage together with a single-mode fibre gives the best sound quality.

 

I have listened to 1Gbps, 2.5Gbps and 10Gbps SFPs and the latter wins (two different ones: HP and BlueOptics). It's clearly not about the speed but probably about the waveform purity and edge slope.

 

One extra point: the ER with a 10Gbps SFP runs HOT and definitely needs a heatsink on the case.

[Bertel]

Quick question: is there such a thing like a 10 Gbps Wifi bridge?

Reason why I am asking: currently I have all my devices (computer, NAS, Signature Rendu) connected to a MicroTik switch, which also is connected to my internet provider‘s box (Fritz Box Cable). The latter doesn‘t offer 10Gbps SFP, so I run a 10Gbps optical into the A side of the EtherRegen, and a 1Gbps Ethernet to the internet box. Yet I just realised that I maybe could do this also via Wifi, if there was something like the 10 Gbps Wifi bridge mentioned above.

 

Sounds rather trivial imho, but not sure I really know what I need to look for… I thought that maybe the MikroTik hAP (https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT) ac is what I‘m looking for - but if I understand correctly that is the opposite of what I need, it connects to a wired network and provides a Wifi access point to it, while I already have a Wifi (provided by my internet router) and need to connect to it…

[R1200CL]

The absolutely latest in WiFi is WiFi 6E. (Not WiFi 6). You can google and educate yourself. 
 

https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/netgear-orbi-wifi-6e

[matthias]

40 minutes ago, Bertel said:

Quick question: is there such a thing like a 10 Gbps Wifi bridge?

Reason why I am asking: currently I have all my devices (computer, NAS, Signature Rendu) connected to a MicroTik switch, which also is connected to my internet provider‘s box (Fritz Box Cable). The latter doesn‘t offer 10Gbps SFP, so I run a 10Gbps optical into the A side of the EtherRegen, and a 1Gbps Ethernet to the internet box. Yet I just realised that I maybe could do this also via Wifi, if there was something like the 10 Gbps Wifi bridge mentioned above.

 

Sounds rather trivial imho, but not sure I really know what I need to look for… I thought that maybe the MikroTik hAP (https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT) ac is what I‘m looking for - but if I understand correctly that is the opposite of what I need, it connects to a wired network and provides a Wifi access point to it, while I already have a Wifi (provided by my internet router) and need to connect to it…

 

The limiting factors might be:

1.) Internet speed: The maximum what you get in Germany at reasonable cost is 1000Mbps per cable.

2.) EtherRegen: The A-side is specified 1000Mbps, the B-side only 100Mbps.

 

I get 1000Mbps from my ISP and have a WIFi6 modem/router. At a distance of a few meters to the the router I get about 750Mbps with my iPhone12 mini, with an older MacBook Pro in my listening room about 50Mbps internet speed.

This is more than enough for HR Qobuz streaming.

 

Matt

[Bertel]

Thanks Matt. Correct, I have 1000Mbps from my ISP, and the EtherRegen cuts that down to 100 Mbps.

 

Maybe my question wasn‘t clear - I currently have the EtherRegen in place, and want to replace it with something like the MikroTik hAP ac if it provides the functionality, i.e. connect my MikroTik not through the EtherRegen but through a WiFi bridge, which is what I‘m looking for and would ask for recommendations.

[matthias]

19 minutes ago, Bertel said:

Thanks Matt. Correct, I have 1000Mbps from my ISP, and the EtherRegen cuts that down to 100 Mbps.

 

Maybe my question wasn‘t clear - I currently have the EtherRegen in place, and want to replace it with something like the MikroTik hAP ac if it provides the functionality, i.e. connect my MikroTik not through the EtherRegen but through a WiFi bridge, which is what I‘m looking for and would ask for recommendations.

 

Even with a 10Gbps Wifi bridge you have only maximum 1Gbps internet speed which is shared by all appliances at your place.

I went from 250Mbps internet speed with a Wifi5 router to 1000Mbps with a Wifi6 router. With both routers I got about the same internet speed with the MBP which can use the 2,4GHz radio only. 

 

Matt

[R1200CL]

13 minutes ago, Bertel said:

I currently have the EtherRegen in place, and want to replace it with something like the MikroTik hAP ac if it provides the functionality,

Now I’m confused. Can you make a drawing present network,,and what you’re asking. 

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, Bertel said:

Quick question: is there such a thing like a 10 Gbps Wifi bridge?

Reason why I am asking: currently I have all my devices (computer, NAS, Signature Rendu) connected to a MicroTik switch, which also is connected to my internet provider‘s box (Fritz Box Cable). The latter doesn‘t offer 10Gbps SFP, so I run a 10Gbps optical into the A side of the EtherRegen, and a 1Gbps Ethernet to the internet box. Yet I just realised that I maybe could do this also via Wifi, if there was something like the 10 Gbps Wifi bridge mentioned above.

 

Sounds rather trivial imho, but not sure I really know what I need to look for… I thought that maybe the MikroTik hAP (https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT) ac is what I‘m looking for - but if I understand correctly that is the opposite of what I need, it connects to a wired network and provides a Wifi access point to it, while I already have a Wifi (provided by my internet router) and need to connect to it…

To be very clear: there is no need for 10Gbs for audio except that for 10GbE ethernet (not wifi) the standard requires the "stressed receiver" testing which ensures that jitter/noise is not passed through the link/does not accumulate. The higher speeds also require less noise in order to work! I don't know enough about Wifi noise/jitter to really comment except that if the router has a 10GbE ethernet port, that should mean it passes the stricter compliance testing.

[Bertel]

Thanks @jabbr - exactly, that‘s why I use the well known MikroTik at 10Gbs to connect computer and NAS with the other components, to be on the safe side so to speak in this regard.

 

As said, that‘s all in place already for a long time and working perfectly well, I just try to figure out whether I can replace the wired EtherRegen with a wireless connection as a next step. Will post an updated version of my network schematic/diagram tomorrow to make myself more clear and understood. (And just buy the MikroTik hAP ac to see if it does the job 😉)