Optical Network Configurations

[R1200CL]

7 hours ago, Bertel said:

Let my try to clarify and visualise what I'm trying to achieve - please bear with me 😉

 

If you want the best SQ to your Signature Rendu SE:

Add the EtherRegen after the Microtik fiber switch. Purchase a Sonore OpticalModule DL. Add that between EtherRegen and the Signature Rendu SE.

In my view, how you have connected this now, is a total waste of the EtherRegen.

 

[R1200CL]

7 hours ago, Bertel said:

I have ordered both devices, the MikroTik hAP ac and the Fritz!Box 5530 Fiber

Why don't you just pull a RJ45 from router to Microtik ? 

[MartinT]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Purchase a Sonore OpticalModule DL. Add that between EtherRegen and the Signature Rendu SE.
 

 

You don't need the OpticalModule. Just put an SFP into the ER cage and feed it to the Sig Rendu SE. Use the same model SFP at the Rendu end.

[Bertel]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

If you want the best SQ to your Signature Rendu SE:

Add the EtherRegen after the Microtik fiber switch. Purchase a Sonore OpticalModule DL. Add that between EtherRegen and the Signature Rendu SE.

Wait - convert fiber to copper Ethernet, and then back to fiber…? No way 😆

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Bertel said:

Wait - convert fiber to copper Ethernet, and then back to fiber…? No way 😆

Them you don’t understand the clue with the benefits of those two products. 
 

Fiber won’t give you good SQ. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

 

You don't need the OpticalModule. Just put an SFP into the ER cage and feed it to the Sig Rendu SE. Use the same model SFP at the Rendu end.

Well, your solution requires that EtherRegen is in B>A. 
 

But worth testing as he can do it now. RJ45 to Mikrotik. 

[robi20064]

49 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Them you don’t understand the clue with the benefits of those two products. 
 

Fiber won’t give you good SQ. 

What does copper "add back" before it would be converted to fiber once again - right before the Rendu SE?

[dbastin]

11 hours ago, Bertel said:

 

No, I have never listened to / compared Ethernet cables. My goal is to get rid of them, and of wired (copper) connections altogether 😉

Maybe you need to review why you have that goal.

 

If there is no difference between different wired cables in the connecting the router to the  CRS 305, going to all the effort of eliminating the copper might not be beneficial, and could actually be detrimental by adding another device into your network that influences noise and phase noise.

 

You might need to choose the lesser of 2 evils:  excellent performing copper wire -v- an extra device.

 

A simple alternative is to only connect the CRS 305 to the router when you need to.

 

I think that is what @R1200CL means by "Why don't you just pull a RJ45 from router to Microtik ?"

 

[dbastin]

5 hours ago, robi20064 said:

What does copper "add back" before it would be converted to fiber once again - right before the Rendu SE?

I gather what is suggested is:

 

CRS 305 > fibre > ER side A - Side B > copper > Rendu.

and

CRS 305 > fibre > Optical Module > copper > Rendu.

or

CRS 305 > fibre > ER side A - Side B > copper > Optical Module > fibre > Rendu.

or 

CRS 305 > fibre > Optical Module > copper > ER side A - Side B > copper > Rendu.

or 

CRS 305 > fibre > Optical Module > copper > ER Side B - Side A > fibre > Rendu.

 

So many possibilities, permutations and variables.

 

But it puts a better clock and design right before the Rendu, which could be a superior outcome compared to just fibre from CRS 305.  In other words, adding potential dis-benefits of copper is outweighed by the benefits.  This also leaves the only RJ45 of the CRS 305 to be used to connect to the router.

 

There is no ideal, every solution has 'cons', just some are better outcomes in any given situation.

 

7 hours ago, Bertel said:

Wait - convert fiber to copper Ethernet, and then back to fiber…? No way 😆

You could be assuming fibre is always best, which might not be true.

[R1200CL]

24 minutes ago, dbastin said:

So many possibilities, permutations and variables.

The Rendu is fiber in. 

[audiophilac]

Hopefully in future etherregen would have two sfp ports.

[dbastin]

59 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The Rendu is fiber in. 

Oh, maybe there are different versions.  I read ...The Signature Rendu SE takes fiber optic Ethernet input or cable ethernet input here ... https://www.sonore.us/Signature-Rendu-SE.html

[Mike Rubin]

7 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Oh, maybe there are different versions.  I read ...The Signature Rendu SE takes fiber optic Ethernet input or cable ethernet input here ... https://www.sonore.us/Signature-Rendu-SE.html

There are two versions. I have owned both.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, dbastin said:

Oh, maybe there are different versions.  I read ...The Signature Rendu SE takes fiber optic Ethernet input or cable ethernet input here ... https://www.sonore.us/Signature-Rendu-SE.html

That is a mistake on the Sonore website. AFAIK they are only offering the Signature Rendu with SFP cage input for the past year or so.  The Signature is just the same board as the opticalRendu in a larger case with a bespoke LPS built-in (by my friend Barrows). Prior to the opticalRendu being available the Signature used the RJ45 input ultraRendu board.

 

Of course it is possible they are implying that one could install an RJ45 SFP module to gain wire cable input. But that would be terrible as that type of transceiver has a cruddy clock and PHY, both running running from poor DC-DC voltage regulators powered from the one 3.3V line that feeds all SFP cages.

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, audiophilac said:

Hopefully in future etherregen would have two sfp ports.

I have requested this several times, and my understanding is that it's not feasible without a tremendous raise in cost.

Dual PS, bigger case, much more complex board design etc. 

 

Technical possible. 

 

I personally will struggle to pay to much over 1K for a switch. You may have to triple that amount.

It may be more interesting to have a upgraded clock in the opticalRendu. 

I don't know if its and option to "move" the present SFP to B side, so you may have two versions of the EtherRegen deping if you have an optical interface to you streamer. (A Rendu in most cases). 

 

Or have a EtherRegen with a better XO clock inside, with maybe even a external 10 mHz out. Then I can probably be willing to pay up to 1,5K. 
 

[MartinT]

12 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Well, your solution requires that EtherRegen is in B>A. 
 

 

That's what I'm doing. 

[audiophilac]

On 8/3/2022 at 3:17 PM, R1200CL said:

I have requested this several times, and my understanding is that it's not feasible without a tremendous raise in cost.

Dual PS, bigger case, much more complex board design etc. 

 

Technical possible. 

 

I personally will struggle to pay to much over 1K for a switch. You may have to triple that amount.

It may be more interesting to have a upgraded clock in the opticalRendu. 

I don't know if its and option to "move" the present SFP to B side, so you may have two versions of the EtherRegen deping if you have an optical interface to you streamer. (A Rendu in most cases). 

 

Or have a EtherRegen with a better XO clock inside, with maybe even a external 10 mHz out. Then I can probably be willing to pay up to 1,5K. 
 

i think i am keen to pay for more features on eR. so i can compare it against sotm. 

[R1200CL]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:27 AM, audiophilac said:

i think i am keen to pay for more features on eR. so i can compare it against sotm. 

Have a look at The «Master Clock for your EtherREGEN» thread. You may just find the answers there in latest posts. Also it seems the myth of 10GB is better is just being busted. 
 

 

[jabbr]

8 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Have a look at The «Master Clock for your EtherREGEN» thread. You may just find the answers there in latest posts. Also it seems the myth of 10GB is better is just being busted. 

 

To be very clear the EtherREGEN isn't a 10GbE device nor do I know of any 10 GbE device which accepts an external master clock. 10GbE used a newer type of compliance testing namely the "stressed receiver" test. What myth has been busted and specifically how?

[audiophilac]

20 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Have a look at The «Master Clock for your EtherREGEN» thread. You may just find the answers there in latest posts. Also it seems the myth of 10GB is better is just being busted. 
 

 

The Sotm switch isn't 10G.

I use a few sets of Finisar 1475s and enjoy it very much, though I've yet to test/experience 1G transceivers and expensive copper cords.

[MartinT]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:37 AM, MartinT said:

I have been enjoying myself trying out a few SFPs and LC fibre to listen for differences in replay, which can be quite noticeable.  Having tried multi-mode I have recently moved up to single mode and the current best sound I have attained is using HP JD094B-C 10Gbps SFPs from old servers at work, with a 5m single-mode LC cable.

 

Just to bring everyone up to date, the HP JD094B-C SFPs have proven fierce competition for the BlueOptics SFPs. I'm currently running them with the ipolex OS2-LC-LC cable. Their sound is detailed, rich and with superb dynamics and I find them a touch better balanced than the BlueOptics.

[audiophilac]

9 hours ago, MartinT said:

 

Just to bring everyone up to date, the HP JD094B-C SFPs have proven fierce competition for the BlueOptics SFPs. I'm currently running them with the ipolex OS2-LC-LC cable. Their sound is detailed, rich and with superb dynamics and I find them a touch better balanced than the BlueOptics.

How long have you used your transceivers and cable?

[MartinT]

7 hours ago, audiophilac said:

How long have you used your transceivers and cable?

 

The HPs have been running for three weeks now, with the ipolex fibre.  They run pretty hot but are working well in the EtherREGEN and Signature Rendu SE.  As of last night, they sound incredibly good.

[MartinT]

I have now tried mixing the SFPs (with the same speed and protocol, obviously) with a BlueOptics at the sending (EtherREGEN) end and the HP at the receiving (Signature Rendu SE) end.  This also works and brings out a touch more detail without losing the full richness of the HPs.

[jas]

MartinT. Enjoy your experimentation, have learned from it so thank you.

 

Having trouble finding HP and BlueOptics SFPs for an ER AB AB optical connection. I am using Finisar 1000Base 1324 transceivers now. I'll try either one if I could find them if you have suggestions as where they can be found. Thanks