Why Apple?

[jfaaz]

Not Foobar but...

• J.River
  
• Amarra
  
• Audirvana
  
• Decibel
  
• Fidelia
  
• Play
  
• Vox
  
• PureMusic
  

 

Probably others I have missed. On top of that are applications such as Plex, XBMC and VLC which while music playback is not their primary use play FLAC and other formats.

 

Eloise

 

 

Don' forget about Swinsian.

 

Betalogue » Swinsian: Fantastic iTunes replacement for music collectors

 

I have been using Swinsian for the past six months and love it! It completely replaces iTunes, matches your sample rate and allows you to takes songs off your ipods and put them on. Sounds great and streams good too.

[Audio_ELF]

Consumer Reports Magazine in the US takes no advertising and publishes tests, ratings, frequency of repair records, etc., for a very wide range of consumer goods. In its frequency of repair records for computers, Apple is always at the top (i.e., needs repair least often).

I am not sure if this is really fair, a in most cases you cannot fix a Mac for a reasonable cost due to the proprietary boards. Recently I have had top retire 4 Macs because of issues. # of the four would have been reparable for under $100 if they were traditional PC products. With that said, I get better sound out of Windows but I prefer the Mac interface(although that might be changed now that HQPlayer is ported to Mac).

I suspect the difference is who you are talking about ... you are obviously very tech savvy and therefore happy replacing components in your computer. This is as opposed to Aunty Mary, Uncle Tom and probably 90% of the computer buying public who take their computer back to Best Buy / PC World and are charged a lot for replacement components anyway.

 

@ audio elf. I don't know how to deal with the quotes so I have to reply this way.

Once you start adding a lot of ram and hard drives to a mac pro tower the prices go up exponentially. He's not willing to pay it. He could easily be paying over $3k+ if he were to add what he wants on it by buying it from the apple store. Were not talking a mac mini here were talking full blown tower. Apple is too limited in my book. I can buy a fractal design full size case and have room for over 10+ HDD. And a full size SLI rig if I wanted. You can't do that with a mac if you could, apple would charge big bucks to deck it all out. Anyway, that's the way it is. If you guys like your apples feel free. I'm not bashing you for it. I might eventually end up with another one some day. I would never pay for a 4K+ mac pro though.

Similar to as I say to Forest above ... its all about who you are and what your requirements are: The MacPro is aimed at the professional industries. They have no desire to mess around with Fractal Design Cases, etc. You are not comparing like for like as I assume you would be building a machine with Core i7 processors and consumer video cards as well. If you compare Apple to HP and Dell, etc. then prices between their Workstations and Apple's MacPro is comperable.

 

You may not be bashing the Mac users, but you are bashing Apple for not selling what you want them to sell! What they sell is not expensive for what it is - its just not what you want.

[rchunter]

Hi RC - specifics are always clearer than more general stuff. If it's storage (you referred to a tower and 10+ HDDs), my own feeling is that external is very much the way to go - cheap and doesn't care what kind of computer you've got. If we're talking about graphics for gaming in Windows, then yep, I like the customizability of a Hackintosh; but you could also go with a refurbed Apple machine and a separate gaming console, and almost certainly get better graphic performance for not a lot of money compared to a decked out Hackintosh. So if you can give us a few more specifics, folks here can help to come up with better solutions.

 

I might have him look into a refurb laptop from apple and then he's going to have to settle for subpar gaming performance. That's OK though. He would like to get into gaming on windows but the games he would run aren't too taxing. He can't stand consoles and would never buy one. So that's out. Neither one of us like the look of the new mac pro towers and they are too limited in my book. I might have him look at an older tower if he can get one refurbed for a real good deal. I will have to see what he want's to do. Like I said i'd rather not even build him a hackintosh because then i'd have to support it if something goes wrong. I'm going to try and talk him out of it and see what he says. I think if he can get a good deal at the mac refurb store he would be willing to go that route.

[wgscott]

@ audio elf. I don't know how to deal with the quotes

 

Just hit the "Reply with Quote" button at the bottom right of the post you want to reply to.

 

 

Once you start adding a lot of ram and hard drives to a mac pro tower the prices go up exponentially. He's not willing to pay it. He could easily be paying over $3k+ if he were to add what he wants on it by buying it from the apple store. Were not talking a mac mini here were talking full blown tower. Apple is too limited in my book. I can buy a fractal design full size case and have room for over 10+ HDD. And a full size SLI rig if I wanted. You can't do that with a mac if you could, apple would charge big bucks to deck it all out. Anyway, that's the way it is. If you guys like your apples feel free. I'm not bashing you for it. I might eventually end up with another one some day. I would never pay for a 4K+ mac pro though.

 

Does he really need a Mac Pro tower? I don't, at work, and I do some rather hard-core scientific computing tasks. (I wouldn't mind getting one, but I don't really need it.) I would never even consider one for home use.

[rchunter]

 

Not really. But he does a lot of photoshop so it would be nice. He'd have room for a bunch of ram 16GB, 32 would be nice, and at least enough room for a 256GB SSD and a 4TB HDD.

[Jud]

I might have him look into a refurb laptop from apple and then he's going to have to settle for subpar gaming performance. That's OK though. He would like to get into gaming on windows but the games he would run aren't too taxing. He can't stand consoles and would never buy one. So that's out. Neither one of us like the look of the new mac pro towers and they are too limited in my book. I might have him look at an older tower if he can get one refurbed for a real good deal. I will have to see what he want's to do. Like I said i'd rather not even build him a hackintosh because then i'd have to support it if something goes wrong. I'm going to try and talk him out of it and see what he says. I think if he can get a good deal at the mac refurb store he would be willing to go that route.

 

What about doing this with two computers instead of one - get him a refurbed Mac, then build him a high value for low money Win gaming machine?

[Paul R]

JRMC on a Mac recognizes FLAC, and gives you DSD playback as well. Also tends to stream well to pretty much anything on the network, or can be used with a little Intel NUC as a remote streamer.

 

As noted, there is no proprietary audio format with Apple. Not anymore, and hasn't been for several years.

 

-Paul

 

 

What's nice about a hackintosh (if you have to have apple like my uncle) is I can build him a super high end machine and still have it not cost that much. You look at apples high end models for their towers and they are outrageously priced. If he wants he can skip OSX/boot camp all together and boot straight into Windows 7 for his gaming and it will run just as a normal PC would. One of the major reasons i'm kind of put off of apple is the whole proprietary audio format thing and the fact that they use ALAC instead of FLAC. My whole library is already in FLAC. That in itself is huge deal to me. I'm not set up to run iTunes. I use Foobar and Synology Audiostation when i'm on my PC's/linux boxes. Also the network streamers that I use recognize FLAC and WAV format not ALAC.

[Jud]

Not really. But he does a lot of photoshop so it would be nice. He'd have room for a bunch of ram 16GB, 32 would be nice, and at least enough room for a 256GB SSD and a 4TB HDD.

 

Yeah, keeping a Mac with that amount of RAM and an SSD from getting way expensive is gonna be the potential Achilles heel, I think. The 4TB HDD is nothing, Newegg's got a WD external 4TB on sale for $120 right now.

[rchunter]

What about doing this with two computers instead of one - get him a refurbed Mac, then build him a high value for low money Win gaming machine?

That might be work, i'll suggest it to him. If he ends up with a mac tower and a PC tower I can always order him a kvm switch to be able to switch between the two. Save buying 2 monitors, and save lots of desk space, and having to deal with 2 sets of keyboards and mice.

[Isaacc7]

I think you'll find that most people that use Apple for audio do it because they prefer using them. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

[rchunter]

Yeah, keeping a Mac with that amount of RAM and an SSD from getting way expensive is gonna be the potential Achilles heel, I think. The 4TB HDD is nothing, Newegg's got a WD external 4TB on sale for $120 right now.

 

Do the older mac pro towers (the older non-circular ones) have soldered in ram? I guess I can always get out the soldering iron if I have too. Do the latest macpro laptops have soldered in memory? We've got lot's to think about regarding the route we want to take. Thanks Jud.

[wgscott]

Do the older mac pro towers (the older non-circular ones) have soldered in ram? I guess I can always get out the soldering iron if I have too. Do the latest macpro laptops have soldered in memory? We've got lot's to think about regarding the route we want to take. Thanks Jud.

 

No. Everything was swappable. I think only the macbook air has soldered in ram. (It is the only downside to my otherwise favorite laptop). This page shows what you can upgrade with cheaper third-party memory (usually the best way to do it): https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memory/

[rchunter]

No. Everything was swappable. I think only the macbook air has soldered in ram. (It is the only downside to my otherwise favorite laptop). This page shows what you can upgrade with cheaper third-party memory (usually the best way to do it): https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memory/

 

Well that's encouraging. Thank you.

[Paul R]

Sorry misspoke. What players on mac play flac? Are they any good? If they were to come out with foobar on mac i'd be tempted to maybe buy one of their machines again. Maybe.

 

 

You know, nobody is trying to force Apple machines on you - many many people own and are happy with Windows or Linux PCs. The thing is, you seem to have a somewhat inaccurate picture of what is real out there Apple wise. Or it may be that I am just not understanding what you are saying, since I am not in the "gaming" community.

 

I tried for five minutes to find a comparable Windows machine on the market, and outside of IBM Server class machines, I really could not. So just out of curiosity, can anyone put together a machine similar to the Mac Pro for 80% of the cost of a Mac Pro?

 

 

• 3.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
  
• 12GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
  
• Dual AMD FirePro D300
  with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM each
  
• 256GB PCIe-based flash storage¹
  
• Cost: $2999
  

[Jud]

No. Everything was swappable. I think only the macbook air has soldered in ram. (It is the only downside to my otherwise favorite laptop). This page shows what you can upgrade with cheaper third-party memory (usually the best way to do it): https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memory/

 

Whoa. Not what I found with a little research. The laptops, forget it - RAM has been soldered in since 2013. In fact RAM isn't upgradable even on 2014 iMacs. On late 2013 iMacs, upgrading RAM for experienced users is rated "difficult to impossible" by Everymac for the 21" model, but easy for the 27", which can take 32 GB of RAM max.

[elcorso]

Because one Apple a day keeps the doctor away.

 

Roch

[Audio_ELF]

The laptops, forget it - RAM has been soldered in since 2013.

In all except the non-retina 13" (non-air) MacBook

 

In fact RAM isn't upgradable even on 2014 iMacs.

Well one the new "budget" iMac. The rest of the range can be upgradable either with difficulty (21.5") or easily (27")

 

On late 2013 iMacs, upgrading RAM for experienced users is rated "difficult to impossible" by Everymac for the 21" model, but easy for the 27", which can take 32 GB of RAM max.

I think upgrading memory in an iMac has always been considered difficult...

 

Eloise

[rchunter]

Whoa. Not what I found with a little research. The laptops, forget it - RAM has been soldered in since 2013. In fact RAM isn't upgradable even on 2014 iMacs. On late 2013 iMacs, upgrading RAM for experienced users is rated "difficult to impossible" by Everymac for the 21" model, but easy for the 27", which can take 32 GB of RAM max.

 

Can I solder extra laptop ram in if I were to buy it or is this next to impossible?

How do people upgrade without sending their whole computer back to apple If they decide they want more ram?

[Audio_ELF]

Can I solder extra laptop ram in if I were to buy it or is this next to impossible?

How do people upgrade without sending their whole computer back to apple If they decide they want more ram?

They sell it and buy a new one!

 

The thing is the majority if people who but Apple computers don't worry about upgrades...

 

I do think Apple with not much design compromise could make it easy to upgrade memory and replace drives and this is a bad trend (IMO). I can accept in laptops; but does 2mm really matter (or even a whole cm) when talking about a machine on the desktop?

 

Eloise

[Jud]

 

Well one the new "budget" iMac. The rest of the range can be upgradable either with difficulty (21.5") or easily (27")

 

Eloise

 

There are two versions of the "budget" iMac, which are the models introduced in 2014. The other two, the 21 and 27-inch models, were introduced in 2013, so I refer to them as "2013 models" as most folks tend to - my apologies if I created the impression one could no longer buy these. They're available new, or refurbished and discounted. However, the trend definitely seems to be pointing toward RAM soldered to the board, unless someone figures out another way to save the 1/8" or 1/4" that soldering the RAM saves Apple in the form factors for these machines.

[orgel]

[Edit: Glad to see this was cleared up while I was writing slowly.]

 

In fact RAM isn't upgradable even on 2014 iMacs. On late 2013 iMacs, upgrading RAM for experienced users is rated "difficult to impossible" by Everymac for the 21" model, but easy for the 27", which can take 32 GB of RAM max.

 

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but it looks like RAM is still upgradable on the current 27" iMac.

 

Since the new Mac Pro's have the fantastic, futuristic "nothing fits in the enclosure" design, I'm looking hard at a maxed-out 27" iMac as my next work computer, to replace my beloved 2009 "everything fits in the enclosure" Mac Pro. Whether I go iMac or Mac Pro, hello increased desk clutter (and expense for card cage, external optical drive, and some sort of multiple-disk enclosure).

 

--David

[Jud]

Can I solder extra laptop ram in if I were to buy it or is this next to impossible?

How do people upgrade without sending their whole computer back to apple If they decide they want more ram?

 

Not even "next to," just impossible. You can't even send your computer back to Apple (short of having the whole logic board and everything fastened to it replaced at a cost of well over a thousand dollars). With these machines you are locked in to what you decide at purchase. I think it's a crappy thing myself. Ram upgradability has allowed me to extend the life of many of my computers, and it was also the first thing I did with the refurbished laptop I bought from Apple. So basically if you want to get your uncle a reasonably priced Apple machine with 32GB of RAM, you are looking at buying a refurbed 27" iMac with whatever amount of RAM it has and upgrading it to 32GB; at 16GB, you can probably find a refurbed MacBook Pro with that amount already installed.

[rchunter]

They sell it and buy a new one!

 

The thing is the majority if people who but Apple computers don't worry about upgrades...

 

I do think Apple with not much design compromise could make it easy to upgrade memory and replace drives and this is a bad trend (IMO). I can accept in laptops; but does 2mm really matter (or even a whole cm) when talking about a machine on the desktop?

 

Eloise

 

Wow, just wow. I had no idea.

[rchunter]

Not even "next to," just impossible. You can't even send your computer back to Apple (short of having the whole logic board and everything fastened to it replaced at a cost of well over a thousand dollars). With these machines you are locked in to what you decide at purchase. I think it's a crappy thing myself. Ram upgradability has allowed me to extend the life of many of my computers, and it was also the first thing I did with the refurbished laptop I bought from Apple. So basically if you want to get your uncle a reasonably priced Apple machine with 32GB of RAM, you are looking at buying a refurbed 27" iMac with whatever amount of RAM it has and upgrading it to 32GB; at 16GB, you can probably find a refurbed MacBook Pro with that amount already installed.

 

Wow, this is beyond crazy of apple to do this. I had no idea. Things have changed since I was buying macs. I think i'd build him a hackintosh for this reason alone.

[Audio_ELF]

Wow, this is beyond crazy of apple to do this. I had no idea. Things have changed since I was buying macs. I think i'd build him a hackintosh for this reason alone.

I still think a Hackintosh is a very bad idea for the situation you are describing...

 

Either grit your teeth and buy an Apple computer (if you want to run OSX); or run Windows (or Linux).

 

Eloise