Why Apple?

[Audio_ELF]

Not really sure but wasn't IBM's OS2 the first and both apple and microsoft stole/borrowed ideas from OS2? Not really sure how it all went.

OS/2 was a joint Microsoft / IBM developement project which later became the basis for Windows NT.

 

Apple's OS can be traced back to Xerox Alto PARC which is suspect is what you were thinking of.

 

And according to some IT friends I have Amiga and Commerdore were the real pioneers. But the people behind those companies were not attention whores like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. That Jay Miner did more for the development of modern computers than Steve Jobs and Bill Gates ever did.

There are a lot of IT development and companies which have fallen by the way side and forgotten. Commodore were the first major user of custom processors; Acorn need remembering as from there the ARM processor, which is used in 90% of handheld devices, was developed; others have influenced OS design.

 

I'm not sure (at least in the start) either Steve Jobs or Bill Gates were attention whores; they were both men who were skilled at taking technical solutions and getting the right people to develop and market them.

 

Eloise

[Skeptic]

I have built all of my desktop PCs - never owned a manufacturer's model. I've never bothered with gaming on the MacBook Pro, and hardly bother with gaming at all. A gaming console, or even two, may well provide a better experience, better value, and better selection of games than any PC one could buy or build at those price points. (Caveat: I have very little personal experience with gaming consoles.)

That's mostly the same for me as well. I have tried gaming on Macs before, but it was a bad experience.

Apple hardware just isn't designed around gaming - even at the highest-end you are paying significantly more money for a vastly inferior experience.

I prefer PC gaming to consoles - the games are a lot cheaper and the distribution platforms are a lot better since there is actual competition there, and the games look and run a lot better if you buy a nice GPU.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ihQglbX.jpg

 

Shows that windows 8 is so bad. Just look at all the ridiculous colours. The whole right side of the start menu is filled with garbage.

Garbage, otherwise known as your pinned apps.

That's most likely a live tile displaying photos - which can be disabled or removed.

 

Are all the application icons on your OSX dock monochrome?

The start screen is a lot more functional than Launchpad on OSX (which is the Mac equivalent)

 

Also when you press windows E instead of a good file browser you get libraries and favorites and below that computer.

Pretty sure that is not true for Windows 8. It is trivial to prevent that from happening anyway.

View > Navigation Pane > Show Libraries

 

Honestly- that is nothing more than your opinion. Macs are used in more AV operations, like creating movies, music, and all publications from Print to the Web than Windows. That is a fact, not opinion, though in movie special effects shops, Unix systems or Linux systems are used more for special effects, in great Huge Clusters.

Since the Final Cut X gaffe, most have moved over to Adobe Premier which is multi-platform.

For consumer video playback, your options on OSX are severely limited compared to Windows. There are no high quality renderers comparable to something like MadVR.

 

For my home computing, I use a Macbook Pro, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple TV, and an Apple AirPort Extreme with 802.11ac. I find them much easier and more robust to use and I find their shelf life has far out lived any of my Windows equivalent computers.

That's surprising, since Apple actively obsolete computers far quicker than Microsoft do.

All of the Intel Macs here have the option to run Windows 8.1

Only the latest machines can be upgraded to Yosemite.

Same goes for our iOS hardware - we have a number of devices which cannot run iOS 7/8.

 

I used to enjoy a computer for a year, struggle for a year, and then upgrade depending on how bad things became at the 2-3 year mark (typically earlier than later). In contrast, I am still using my 15" Late 2008 Macbook Pro six years later...it runs so well (I've made a few upgrades including a large SSD drive, maxed out the memory, and OSX 10.9.4). It looks great still, runs great still, and I don't think about upgrading yet. I'm sure there will come a time but it isn't yet.

Honestly, I think that says more about the general computing market than anything else.

Since the move to SSDs and Intel's Core processors, there has been very little incentive to upgrade year-to-year like I used to do.

Unless you need better battery life or bleeding-edge performance, or want a Retina Display, there has been little need to upgrade since Apple started putting quad-core CPUs in the MacBook Pros.

 

I'm still using the same desktop PC I built at the beginning of 2011 because there has been virtually no performance increases on the desktop since then - it's all been about dropping the power consumption rather than increasing performance.

IPC has improved, but the max stable clockspeed has been dropping due to the changes made to improve efficiency.

 

I still have an old iPhone that now is completely dedicated as a JRemote remote control for my music server, so I'm getting years of use out of my old iPhone as well.

It can't be that old if you are able to run the latest JRemote, since that now requires iOS 7.

 

I think overall I personally like OS X better than Windows these days, likely because Apple is more restrictive in the hardware it supports, so there tends to be less fuss with things like driver problems. (I bought a new printer a couple of years ago just because the old one, which still worked perfectly well from a hardware standpoint, would unaccountably not be "seen" by Windows unless the printer driver was reinstalled after bootup.)

My experience has been the opposite there - it used to be that OSX made it nice and easy to use my printer - plug it into the AirPort Express and it just showed up as a networked printer.

While that Mac driver worked for basic printing, it did not offer the advanced quality options or things like being able to monitor ink levels or clean the print heads.

 

Then they dropped support for that model around 10.5 and it has been a headache to deal with on the Macs ever since.

 

Plugged it into a Windows machine recently and it automatically downloaded the latest driver for that model from Windows Update and prints without any problems.

 

Oh, and I can no longer configure that AirPort Express with the current version of AirPort Utility - they dropped support for the older models a while back. The PC app still works just fine on Windows 8.1 though.

 

It could be argued the Light use is a pretty artificial figure where Medium use is probably the most typical.

No, that is exactly where you are going to see the benefits of efficiency.

At light use, even the smallest amount of wastage is going to drop your battery life.

 

At medium or heavy use, all you're measuring is the processor in the system - whether that CPU is either a slightly different model (most likely) or one happens to be better binned than the other and run on a slightly lower voltage. (not all CPUs are the same)

 

There was a time though when VAIO first came out that it was head and shoulders above anything else (including Apple). Its not so much that Apple have improved so much (at least since the MacBook Pro line was created) its that everyone else is in a race to the bottom. The high end models from Toshiba and Lenovo (and others) can give the Apple hardware a run for its money ... but the cost is then as high as Apple hardware.

I don't really agree. The original MacBooks were still using the old PowerBook G4 chassis and while it looked nice enough, that was poorly put together. There was a lot of flex in the chassis and it was easily damaged due to the thin materials used.

The unibody MacBook Pros were a huge step forward for Apple's hardware design, and the point at which they took the lead over anyone else.

I don't agree about the high-end Toshibas or Lenovos, they aren't nearly as nice as the MacBook Pros.

 

Consumer Reports Magazine in the US takes no advertising and publishes tests, ratings, frequency of repair records, etc., for a very wide range of consumer goods. In its frequency of repair records for computers, Apple is always at the top

I can believe it, if you are only looking at recent data.

Apple are always first to drop support for "legacy" connections, optical drives, and move to solid state drives. Even RAM is now soldered on the board.

The less hardware in the machine, the less there is to go wrong. The optical drive was always the first thing to go in any of our older MacBooks, even though it saw very little use.

 

Any of the recent Macs should be very reliable machines - though they are almost unrepairable if something does go wrong.

Macs used to be a nightmare to deal with. I had endless problems with PowerBook G4s, an iMac G5, the early MacBook Pros. (pre-unibody)

 

I actually switched back to being PC-only for a while after a string of bad experiences with Apple hardware and support.

 

Fine. The more fundamental problem here is that you're treating your opinion as though it were a universal truth. Millions upon millions of people clearly don't share your view that Macs are overpriced. We know this by the most relevant evidence imaginable: when push came to shove, they voted with their credit cards.

The lower-end Macs are reasonably priced for the machine that you get. Once they put a Retina Display in there, they will be good value for money again, assuming the price doesn't jump up.

As you start pushing towards the high-end they are laughably expensive for the hardware you end up with.

 

However, at the low-end, they do offer less than before. The base-spec MacBook Air has an 11" display rather than 13" now and costs almost 50% more than the old 13" MacBooks did - and they have significantly less connectivity.

I don't think even the 15" Retina MacBook Pro has separate audio in/out jacks any more, when even the basic MacBooks used to include that.

A top-spec 15" Retina costs more than the top-spec 17" PowerBooks used to.

Until they dropped the price (some time in the last 12 months) the basic 13" MacBook Air cost almost twice what our older MacBooks did.

[Jud]

The start screen is a lot more functional than Launchpad on OSX (which is the Mac equivalent)

 

That's surprising, since Apple actively obsolete computers far quicker than Microsoft do.

All of the Intel Macs here have the option to run Windows 8.1

Only the latest machines can be upgraded to Yosemite.

 

Honestly, I think that says more about the general computing market than anything else.

Since the move to SSDs and Intel's Core processors, there has been very little incentive to upgrade year-to-year like I used to do.

Unless you need better battery life or bleeding-edge performance, or want a Retina Display, there has been little need to upgrade since Apple started putting quad-core CPUs in the MacBook Pros.

 

I'm still using the same desktop PC I built at the beginning of 2011

 

Wish you would check your information before posting or specify in far more detail exactly which Intel Macs you are referring to.

 

I have a mid-2009 Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro that runs Yosemite with no problems, but cannot run a Win OS higher than 7. Windows 8 was released in August 2012. That is 5 years and counting for OS X versions running on my Intel Mac, 3 years for Windows. This is the reverse of what you stated (all Intel Macs can run Win 8.1, but only the latest can run Yosemite).

 

I prefer Launchpad to the Win 8 start screen, simply because one allows you to immediately access your desktop and file manager, while the other must be worked around to accomplish that.

[Audio_ELF]

Skeptic; I'm not going to address everything you wrote but addressing support for OS on older hardware...

 

From Wikipedia...

All Macintosh products capable of running OS X Mavericks are supported by Yosemite; as with Mavericks, 2 GB of RAM, 8 GB of available storage, and OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) or later are required.[15] However, in order to take full advantage of the features in Continuity, a Mac with Bluetooth LE (Bluetooth 4.0) is needed.

 

These are the models compatible with OS X Yosemite:

iMac (Mid 2007 or later)

MacBook (13-inch Aluminum, Late 2008), (13-inch, Early 2009 or later)

MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid-2009 or later), (15-inch, Mid/Late 2007 or later), (17-inch, Late 2007 or later)

MacBook Air (Late 2008 or later)

Mac Mini (Early 2009 or later)

Mac Pro (Early 2008 or later)

Xserve (Early 2009)

 

These are the models that have Bluetooth LE support, and that therefore support Continuity:

iMac (Late 2012 or later)

MacBook Pro (Mid 2012 or later)

MacBook Pro with Retina display (all models)

MacBook Air (Mid 2011 or later)

Mac Mini (Mid 2011 or later)

Mac Pro (Late 2013 or later)

 

(iirc) The last time when support for older machines was dropped was when Mountain Lion dropped support for 32bit only chips - sometimes it is a wise company who drops support when it hinders future development.

 

As for iOS 8; most functionality is supported on all phones since iPhone 4s (available since October 2011) and iPad 2 (March 2011). Good luck getting the manufacturer to support the latest version of Android on similar aged hardware.

 

Eloise

 

PS. re: connectivity; apart from no longer having separate audio in and out; all Macs still support USB, FireWire and Gigabyte networking albeit via Thunderbolt adaptors for the latter two.

 

PPS. I do agree the inability to be able to add memory to many of the current Apple machines is a negative; though I am unsure how many users (beyond the vocal IT crowd) actually ever upgraded memory and drives.

[Skeptic]

(iirc) The last time when support for older machines was dropped was when Mountain Lion dropped support for 32bit only chips - sometimes it is a wise company who drops support when it hinders future development.

And yet Microsoft manages to support both 32-bit and 64-bit hardware.

If I recall correctly, at least one of the systems here does use a 64-bit CPU, but something like the memory controller is only 32-bit, so it was dropped.

 

As for iOS 8; most functionality is supported on all phones since iPhone 4s (available since October 2011) and iPad 2 (March 2011). Good luck getting the manufacturer to support the latest version of Android on similar aged hardware.

I did not say that Android was any better, just that Apple have a habit of obsoleting older devices after only a few years.

Our 2012 iPod touch cannot run iOS 7/8.

While introduced in 2009, the iPhone 3GS was still on sale until September 2012.

 

PS. re: connectivity; apart from no longer having separate audio in and out; all Macs still support USB, FireWire and Gigabyte networking albeit via Thunderbolt adaptors for the latter two.

Yes, it's very convenient to carry around an external ADC and adapters instead of having analog/digital line in/out built into the device - especially on a "pro" machine.

 

PPS. I do agree the inability to be able to add memory to many of the current Apple machines is a negative; though I am unsure how many users (beyond the vocal IT crowd) actually ever upgraded memory and drives.

With the advent of SSDs and the significantly lower costs for RAM in recent years, it has made a lot more sense to upgrade than replace a machine.

 

I have a mid-2009 Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro that runs Yosemite with no problems, but cannot run a Win OS higher than 7.

I have a hard time believing that it cannot run Windows 8. The system requirements are the same.

 

I prefer Launchpad to the Win 8 start screen, simply because one allows you to immediately access your desktop and file manager, while the other must be worked around to accomplish that.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I think you are mistaken.

[wgscott]

I love these troll threads. Gives me an opportunity to repopulate my ignore list.

[wgscott]

I'm trying to get my harmony smart bluetooth keyboard to play nice with Windows. When booted into OS X on my mac mini, it just works. When I boot into Windows 8.1 (which seems no better or worse than any other Windows version of late, except Vista), it really struggles to connect. Once connected, the trackpad displays erratic behavior. Obviously the hardware is the same in both cases, so it is a difference in OS. Anyone know how to address this? (It seems to work ok with an older Logitech keyboard paired with both OSX and Windows 8.1. on my mac mini.)

[Jud]

And yet Microsoft manages to support both 32-bit and 64-bit hardware.

 

But not USB Audio 2.0 yet. How long has Apple had native support for this in OS X?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I think you are mistaken.

 

Very simply that I can access the desktop and Finder (the file manager) in OS X while Launchpad is also available at the same time; but the Windows 8/8.1 start screen/tiles cover the desktop and Windows Explorer, so a user must get past the start screen/tiles before accessing those functions. In any case, Launchpad is not the appropriate comparison, since it is not presented to the user on startup. Rather, the appropriate comparison is to the home screen desktop and Dock, a tried and true classic UI component in OS X and other Unix-like OSs for more than 25 years.

 

 

 

[sandyk]

But not USB Audio 2.0 yet.

 

Hi Jud

Is that such a bad thing ?

It's absolutely ridiculous that in this day and age, that so many people feel the need to have to spend so much on expensive USB cables, (sometimes over $1K just on a USB cable) internal /external USB power supplies and isolation to extract the best from a flawed transport medium. I guess that USB Audio looked pretty good in theory though? (smile)

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[Skeptic]

But not USB Audio 2.0 yet. How long has Apple had native support for this in OS X?

Yes, not being able to run the latest OS on hardware that should be capable of running it (fast enough CPU and enough RAM) which means that you are behind on security updates and unable to access purchases made in the App Store, is directly comparable to the pain of downloading a driver to use USB Audio Class 2 devices.

 

Not that it even affects me, since I prefer to use ASIO as that gives you control over the hardware latency/buffer settings for more robust audio playback.

 

Very simply that I can access the desktop and Finder (the file manager) in OS X while Launchpad is also available at the same time; but the Windows 8/8.1 start screen/tiles cover the desktop and Windows Explorer

Launchpad covers the desktop too. I don't see how it is any different in this regard.

 

In any case, Launchpad is not the appropriate comparison, since it is not presented to the user on startup.

Windows boots straight to the desktop in 8.1 (and could be configured to do so in 8)

 

Rather, the appropriate comparison is to the home screen desktop and Dock, a tried and true classic UI component in OS X and other Unix-like OSs for more than 25 years.

No, the dock's equivalent is the taskbar.

[rchunter]

I love these troll threads. Gives me an opportunity to repopulate my ignore list.

 

wgscott, you can think what you will but it was never meant to be a troll thread. It was a legit question and I was wondering if mac provided anything that pc didn't when it comes to audio. I never did really get to work with OS X before I stopped buying macs so there is a lot I don't know about it. I didn't know why most everyone on here was turning to mac for their audio computer so that's why I asked. I didn't mean for it to turn into a mac vs pc thread, it just did. I have no problems with macs. I like all computers. If one of the mods want to lock the thread or pull it down i'm fine with that.

[Jud]

Yes, not being able to run the latest OS on hardware that should be capable of running it (fast enough CPU and enough RAM) which means that you are behind on security updates and unable to access purchases made in the App Store, is directly comparable to the pain of downloading a driver to use USB Audio Class 2 devices.

 

You keep sailing right along repeating this in spite of at least Eloise and myself having documented that it isn't true. Rather than engaging in the fruitless quest of having you change your opinion in response to contrary facts, I'll simply leave it to others to look at the thread and evaluate your statements for themselves.

 

 

Windows boots straight to the desktop in 8.1

 

 

I've been running 8.1 since it was in beta and this is incorrect. Once again, at this point I'll just leave it up to others to evaluate these statements for themselves.

[wgscott]

Sorry, wasn't blaming you.

 

Now, can we please turn everyone's attention to my bluetooth problem.

[wgscott]

I've been running 8.1 since it was in beta and this is incorrect. Once again, at this point I'll just leave it up to others to evaluate these statements for themselves.

 

I bought and installed 8.1 direct from the download onto a clean partition (no upgrade). It boots to the tile screen by default, but you can easily change that (at least it was easy for me, a non-windows person), and customize the tile screen thingie too.

[Jud]

I bought and installed 8.1 direct from the download onto a clean partition (no upgrade). It boots to the tile screen by default, but you can easily change that (at least it was easy for me, a non-windows person), and customize the tile screen thingie too.

 

Yep. Thanks for being accurate. I also agree it's easier to change the @#$%^! tile screen in 8.1 than in 8, where it was quite a bit more of a PITA than it should have been.

 

Edit: For me, the pain with 8.1 is that it's easy to click on something that will inadvertently bring back the tile screen, requiring its dismissal before returning to a sensible UI.

[wgscott]

For me, the pain with 8.1 is that it's easy to click on something that will inadvertently bring back the tile screen, requiring its dismissal before returning to a sensible UI.

 

Just click on the boot-camp icon to get to a sensible UI.

[Jud]

Hi Jud

Is that such a bad thing ?

It's absolutely ridiculous that in this day and age, that so many people feel the need to have to spend so much on expensive USB cables, (sometimes over $1K just on a USB cable) internal /external USB power supplies and isolation to extract the best from a flawed transport medium. I guess that USB Audio looked pretty good in theory though? (smile)

 

Kind Regards

Alex

 

Hi Alex. All these connections have their advantages and disadvantages. For the async version of USB 2, the advantages are that it's the least expensive route to quite low jitter, it can be used with any common PCM or DSD sample rate, and it's a ubiquitous interface. Yes, it's also subject to all the faults you mentioned.

[Jud]

Just click on the boot-camp icon to get to a sensible UI.

 

[Skeptic]

I bought and installed 8.1 direct from the download onto a clean partition (no upgrade). It boots to the tile screen by default, but you can easily change that (at least it was easy for me, a non-windows person), and customize the tile screen thingie too.

If you have a touchscreen, it should boot to the start screen by default.

If you do not, it should boot to the desktop by default.

 

You have the preference to use either regardless of the hardware in your system.

Perhaps if you upgraded from 8 to 8.1 they chose to preserve the current behavior rather than change it?

 

Edit: For me, the pain with 8.1 is that it's easy to click on something that will inadvertently bring back the tile screen, requiring its dismissal before returning to a sensible UI.

The start button? Opening files in a Metro App?

It doesn't just appear for no reason.

 

There are many programs which can replace the start screen with a start menu, though I actually prefer the screen now. It displays more apps at once, and they are easier to find, since I have them grouped by purpose (e.g. Photo Editing Tools, Multimedia Apps) rather than a list of programs.

 

You keep sailing right along repeating this in spite of at least Eloise and myself having documented that it isn't true.

Please tell me how to update to the latest OS on the three MacBooks here which refuse to update beyond 10.6 or 10.7 (CoreDuo/Core2Duo MacBooks, and an aluminum Unibody)

I had an older MacBook Pro which would not have been able to run anything newer than Lion either.

 

Now, can we please turn everyone's attention to my bluetooth problem.

I would try removing any drivers for the device that Apple may have installed, and getting the latest available from Windows Update.

I seem to remember Boot Camp having a habit of installing very old drivers.

I haven't had any issues with Bluetooth devices disconnecting. I use a Bluetooth 4 adapter with my desktop PC. Plugged it in and it worked.

[Jud]

I bought and installed 8.1 direct from the download onto a clean partition (no upgrade). It boots to the tile screen by default....

 

Perhaps if you upgraded from 8 to 8.1 they chose to preserve the current behavior rather than change it?

 

 

Keep trying.

[Skeptic]

Keep trying.

OK, it seems that the option was added in Windows 8.1 last October (though you could still boot to desktop via other methods in 8.0) however it was only made the default setting in Windows 8.1 Update 1 back in April.

[Paul R]

Keep trying.

 

[wwaldmanfan]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14128[/ATTACH]

 

I don't get it.

[mordante]

I bought and installed 8.1 direct from the download onto a clean partition (no upgrade). It boots to the tile screen by default, but you can easily change that (at least it was easy for me, a non-windows person), and customize the tile screen thingie too.

 

 

Is it possible to remove the whole tile screen thingie. It annoys the fuck out if me. It only gives useless info.

 

Windows started going downhill since windows7, form over function. Adding app like how the weather is outside (just open the window). Links to one drive etc etc. All useless shit.

 

A computer has nothing to do with a tablet or smartphone. totally different media that and one should not try to copy the other.

[Jud]

Is it possible to remove the whole tile screen thingie. It annoys the fuck out if me. It only gives useless info.

 

Windows started going downhill since windows7, form over function. Adding app like how the weather is outside (just open the window). Links to one drive etc etc. All useless shit.

 

A computer has nothing to do with a tablet or smartphone. totally different media that and one should not try to copy the other.

 

There are third party offerings that do this. I use one that was called Start Is Back and is now called something else. Google the old name and you should find it. Or for something with more of a classic UI you could use OS X (or Linux).