Why Apple?

[Paul R]

Honestly- that is nothing more than your opinion. Macs are used in more AV operations, like creating movies, music, and all publications from Print to the Web than Windows. That is a fact, not opinion, though in movie special effects shops, Unix systems or Linux systems are used more for special effects, in great Huge Clusters.

 

You do not like the Mac, I get that. But they do what they do exceedingly well, and that includes play back of audiophile quality music. They are also price competive and better supported than any other brand of PC out there. In fact, the first direct Microsoft competition for anything Apple is the Surface 3. At $1300+.

[mordante]

You are exactly the kind of person that stops me from buying MacIntosh products. To much of a fanboi not enough critic. Lots of tablets are in competition with MacIntosh tablets Asus, Dell Acer etc, and any windows computer is a in competition with MacIntosh computer and vice verse.

 

Yes I know Macs are used in AV operations and publications. But I do not know what the cause and effect in this case is.

[InfernoSTi]

My take is a little different than some.

 

For my audio, I run a Windows machine (W8.1 and JRiver 19 w/Fidelizer 5). My Windows based CAPS V3 computer is simply better than my Mac Mini's (I have two, one stock, one with an SSD replacement drive...no power supply upgrades though...so I have two Mac Mini's sitting around that have nothing on them but music server software because my Windows machine beat them out).

 

For my NAS, I run Synology DSM 5.0 and it is very nice in that it mostly gets out of the way.

 

For my work, I run a Windows system but utilize Office 365 so I have access 24/7 on all my devices wherever I am...the best upgrade I've ever had for continuity and ease of use. I think Microsoft hit it out of the park with Office 365.

 

For my home computing, I use a Macbook Pro, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple TV, and an Apple AirPort Extreme with 802.11ac. I find them much easier and more robust to use and I find their shelf life has far out lived any of my Windows equivalent computers. I used to enjoy a computer for a year, struggle for a year, and then upgrade depending on how bad things became at the 2-3 year mark (typically earlier than later). In contrast, I am still using my 15" Late 2008 Macbook Pro six years later...it runs so well (I've made a few upgrades including a large SSD drive, maxed out the memory, and OSX 10.9.4). It looks great still, runs great still, and I don't think about upgrading yet. I'm sure there will come a time but it isn't yet. That is x3 the useful life of my previous Windows machines...that is great value, indeed. I've tried Android phones and quickly went back to iOS devices because they are much, much better to use for my purposes. I still have an old iPhone that now is completely dedicated as a JRemote remote control for my music server, so I'm getting years of use out of my old iPhone as well.

 

So I use Windows for my audio because it sounds better, Windows for work because it has the best software solution for my needs, and Apple for my home computing (Macbook Pro, iPad, iPhone, Apple TV, and AirPort Extreme 802.11ac) because of product life and ease of integration/user experience.

 

I believe I have maximized my value for each application I use computers for and Windows and Apple are both used extensively.

 

Best,

John

[Jud]

Mordante, back when I first worked with OS X on my father's iMac, it was quite aggravating because I wasn't accustomed to it. I had many of the same complaints you have mentioned regarding lack of more intuitive direct access to directory/folder/file structure. (As you say, MS has gone more in that direction recently as well.) But I think these things tend to change with familiarity. These days I use my OS X laptop just as much as I do my Windows/Linux desktop (I have Win 7, 8, and 8.1 on the desktop). I think overall I personally like OS X better than Windows these days, likely because Apple is more restrictive in the hardware it supports, so there tends to be less fuss with things like driver problems. (I bought a new printer a couple of years ago just because the old one, which still worked perfectly well from a hardware standpoint, would unaccountably not be "seen" by Windows unless the printer driver was reinstalled after bootup.)

[Paul R]

You are exactly the kind of person that stops me from buying MacIntosh products. To much of a fanboi not enough critic. Lots of tablets are in competition with MacIntosh tablets Asus, Dell Acer etc, and any windows computer is a in competition with MacIntosh computer and vice verse.

 

Yes I know Macs are used in AV operations and publications. But I do not know what the cause and effect in this case is.

 

And you are exactly the kind of person who makes me wince every time I have to buy another Windows machine. You have already made up your mind and none of those darn facts are going to make any difference to what you think.

 

So- show me a PC at $300 - half the cost of a basic i5 Mac Mini with the sme specs. Even without considering the size. Be sure to add in a Windows license - stealing a license won't work. That means full OS, 4gb/750gb, gig ethernet, Bluetooth, dual band wireless, audio to 96k for input and output, 1 year warranty, no advertising, etc.

 

Macs are predominate in A/V, web, publishing, etc. mostly because they vot those capabilities first.

[Audio_ELF]

Well I have the bad habit of using "apps" when I am talking about computer applications (programs) now and use the terms interchangeably.

I'm pretty sure I referred to Apps prior to phone type Apps...

 

While I appreciate how an iMac looks, I could never bring myself to buy one.

You get this really nice 27" display and then have to toss it when you upgrade to a new machine, or the PC components inside stop working.

I would much rather have an external monitor that will work with any device.

This is a reflection of how usage of a computer (for a lot of people) has changed. Where as before everyone had their computer tucked away in the "office" space; these days many people with smaller living spaces (especially outside USA) have the computer on display. Where once a black tower and grey monitor was acceptable, people now want computers which have some design thought put into them...

 

And while I have an aversion to external power bricks, most PC monitors have now moved the power supply from being inside the display to a standardized external brick.

One of the most common reasons for a display to fail is the power supply, so moving to a standardized external part, rather than a custom internal power supply avoids a potentially expensive/difficult repair - or more likely avoids the display being replaced entirely.

It's for this very reason that the Intel NUC devices and other compact PCs use external bricks rather than being internal like the Mac Mini.

I think you're "very reason" is completely wrong ... the reasons for Intel NUC and compact PCs using power bricks is down to cost, wanting to create headline figures of smallness and just generally not caring about the looks. Apple aren't the only ones to get rid of external power bricks in their "designer" all-in-one ranges.

 

Light use is the measurement which is going to indicate the general efficiency of the system. (how low is the idle power consumption etc.)

Medium/Heavy use is really just going to show differences in the processor used.

It could be argued the Light use is a pretty artificial figure where Medium use is probably the most typical.

 

I included a link to the article, so it's not like I was trying to hide anything.

I didn't say you were hiding anything... I was suggesting that you were highlighting particular figures to prove your point while trying to ignore those which didn't. As the phrase goes: there's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics.

 

I think you are better to compare a device optimized for OSX against a device optimized for Windows.

Apple don't put nearly as much effort into optimizing things for low power consumption on Windows as they do with OSX.

Yes and no. Frankly if you are comparing power usage of Windows to Mac, its the closest you can get to a comparison.

 

You could argue that this was the reason behind the Vaio brand doing poorly, but I think it's more to do with the fact that the Unibody MacBook Pros are so much better than anything else.

There was a time though when VAIO first came out that it was head and shoulders above anything else (including Apple). Its not so much that Apple have improved so much (at least since the MacBook Pro line was created) its that everyone else is in a race to the bottom. The high end models from Toshiba and Lenovo (and others) can give the Apple hardware a run for its money ... but the cost is then as high as Apple hardware.

[Audio_ELF]

So- show me a PC at $300 - half the cost of a basic i5 Mac Mini with the sme specs. Even without considering the size. Be sure to add in a Windows license - stealing a license won't work. That means full OS, 4gb/750gb, gig ethernet, Bluetooth, dual band wireless, audio to 96k for input and output, 1 year warranty, no advertising, etc.

Paul ... its not half the price but (in UK) basic Apple MacMini is £499 and you could get a Dell Dell Inspiron 3000 Desktop (3.4Ghz i5; 8GB RAM; 1TB HDD inc 10/100/1000 Network and 1 year warranty - Bluetooth but only N wireless and no digital audio) for £370. It is ugly though and probably noisy.

 

WRT to pricing though ... even the "basic" CAPS Topanga was costed out at only $100 less than a basic Mac Mini.

[Jud]

There was a time though when VAIO first came out that it was head and shoulders above anything else (including Apple). Its not so much that Apple have improved so much (at least since the MacBook Pro line was created) its that everyone else is in a race to the bottom. The high end models from Toshiba and Lenovo (and others) can give the Apple hardware a run for its money ... but the cost is then as high as Apple hardware.

 

Consumer Reports Magazine in the US takes no advertising and publishes tests, ratings, frequency of repair records, etc., for a very wide range of consumer goods. In its frequency of repair records for computers, Apple is always at the top (i.e., needs repair least often). In the single instance I have sought help from the local Apple Store, I found them incredibly helpful. I'd purchased Apple's office software suite from a third party vendor, and the disc wasn't readable. I went to the Apple Store to see whether they had anything that could read the disc before I went to the trouble of returning it. The fellow I spoke to brought out a hard drive and installed the office suite for me from the hard drive, no further questions asked - i.e., they made good on a product I'd purchased from someone else, not Apple. From other people I've spoken to about the service at Apple's stores, it is not unusual for them to be this helpful. (Phone service, on the other hand, seems about as slow and indifferently responsive as everyone else's.) These sorts of things - they don't break; if you are near one of their brick-and-mortar stores, you can count on excellent service if you ever do need it - are important to many people.

[Audio_ELF]

For my audio, I run a Windows machine (W8.1 and JRiver 19 w/Fidelizer 5). My Windows based CAPS V3 computer is simply better than my Mac Mini's (I have two, one stock, one with an SSD replacement drive...no power supply upgrades though...so I have two Mac Mini's sitting around that have nothing on them but music server software because my Windows machine beat them out).

John ... considering one of the big debates is that Apple MacMini is more expensive than Windows PC ... which cost more?

[Audio_ELF]

Consumer Reports Magazine in the US takes no advertising and publishes tests, ratings, frequency of repair records, etc., for a very wide range of consumer goods. In its frequency of repair records for computers, Apple is always at the top (i.e., needs repair least often).

I don't think we are disagreeing on the quality of Apple hardware ... but most brands will be brought low by the quality of the bargain basement ranges. I would be interested (and perhaps Consumer Report Magazine does) on a comparison between Apple laptops and things like Toshiba and Lenovo's top lines.

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

Yep- they sure do. For example, there top 11" recommended laptops start with:

 

 

• Acer Aspire S7-191-6447 Ultrabook $800
  
• Apple MacBook Air 11-inch MD711LL/B $900
  
• Apple MacBook Air 11-inch MD711LL/A $800
  
• Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus NP940X3G-K06US $1300
  
• Acer Aspire S7-392-6832 Ultrabook $1200
  
• Dell XPS 13 Ultrabook Touch $1300
  
• ...
  
• ...
  
• ...
  

And continue on in a similar vein. Apple laptops are near the very top in all the categories, and are price competitive. You need a Consumer Reports online account to read the actual reviews of each one. CR is pretty ruthless in telling the shortcomings and faults of each model too, definitely not a lot of bias in the reviews. Sometimes not a lot of really solid tech knowledge either, but never much, if any, bias.

 

-Paul

[Audio_ELF]

To continue my previous thoughts...

 

ASUS VivoPC VC60 is a similar form factor to the MacMini and cost wise is within around 10% for the same spec - oh and that's the Asus is 10% MORE than the MacMini (UK prices).

 

Eloise

Paul ... its not half the price but (in UK) basic Apple MacMini is £499.

[mav52]

What is the attraction to Apple when it comes to audio? A long time ago I was in to apple when the first few macs came out but have since switched to all windows and linux. I see lots of people on here have mac minis. Why is this so popular as opposed to just using a NAS that I can access across the whole network?

Just wondering what I am missing by not going with apple products.

 

Oh, also another question i've been wondering about is why in some of the photos a lot of you guys put your amps and other equipment directly on the floor? Is this due to cutting out vibrations. Some people also put them on granite blocks. Just a couple questions i've been wondering about for a while. Thanks.

 

 

I say Why Not. At least if the unit breaks you can get it repaired or depending on your warranty get it replaced. Some little outfits you can't even get them to answer the phone, and even some major manufacturers ( you better read the fine print). But there is bad units mixed with good units be it windows or mac. Nothing is ever perfect for all people. This thread seems to be moving into Ford vs Chevy territory,

 

or you could

[Paul R]

To continue my previous thoughts...

 

ASUS VivoPC VC60 is a similar form factor to the MacMini and cost wise is within around 10% for the same spec - oh and that's the Asus is 10% MORE than the MacMini (UK prices).

 

Eloise

 

Hi Eloise- the Dell you quoted is either $499 or $579 over here, not exactly sure which one is which from the website, but yes, that is a reasonable comparison. I guess you - roughly - drop off about 100 when going to Euros? The Dell is quite a bit noisier though, and doesn't fit into most audio racks.

 

Honestly, I think you usually pay about a 5%-15% "premium" for buying Apple gear. That sometimes comes out less than you would pay for competing gear in the marketplace - such as Macbook to UltraBook.

 

The NUC is the closest competitor to the Mac Mini I think, and a nicely configured one will set you back about the same.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-D54250WYKH-Core-i5-4250U-BOXD54250WYKH/dp/B00J2FV5ZS/ref=sr_1_11?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1408034626&sr=1-11&keywords=intel+i5+nuc

 

-Paul

[kumakuma]

''Windows 8 is especially bad''

 

Nonsense, it must be the way you set it up and use it. W8.1 is very usable and stable.

 

I was referring to the non-intuitive user interface, not the stability of the OS.

[Audio_ELF]

This thread seems to be moving into Ford vs Chevy territory.

I was just thinking there was more a Ford (Windows PC) vs VW (Apple) analogy.

 

There is a certain symmetry in the desirability of the VW even though it's more expensive. I'd also add to the pro-Apple side that in 3-5 years time the MacMini will have a greater resale value compared with a Windows PC.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The NUC is the closest competitor to the Mac Mini I think, and a nicely configured one will set you back about the same.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-D54250WYKH-Core-i5-4250U-BOXD54250WYKH/dp/B00J2FV5ZS/ref=sr_1_11?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1408034626&sr=1-11&keywords=intel+i5+nuc

The Asus VivoPC is similar and much nicer looking :-)

[alfe]

Oh, also another question i've been wondering about is why in some of the photos a lot of you guys put your amps and other equipment directly on the floor? Is this due to cutting out vibrations. Some people also put them on granite blocks. Just a couple questions i've been wondering about for a while. Thanks.

 

In my case the gryphon reference one are 90 kg each not easy to find a stand to handle the two beast plus you need a forklift , but usually using marble or granite will avoid vibration.

Concerning Apple, a Nissan skyline cost half of the price of Porsche turbo but I'm still ready to pay the difference ¨-)

[burnspbesq]

A Mac Mini costs about €800 in the Netherlands. Say for the sake of conversation it is the same as $800. Then add a few hundred for an SSD and some extra memory. Then you have an $1100-1200 computer that is still nothing special. for half that money you can buy a Windows computer that is just as good.

 

Fine. The more fundamental problem here is that you're treating your opinion as though it were a universal truth. Millions upon millions of people clearly don't share your view that Macs are overpriced. We know this by the most relevant evidence imaginable: when push came to shove, they voted with their credit cards.

 

I'm a lawyer, not an IT manager, and I have no wish to change careers. For me, the advantages of Apple products are undeniable. I turn them on and they do exactly what I expect them to do, 100 percent of the time. Any minute that I spend fussing with operating systems is a minute I'm not spending doing billable work. Factor that opportunity cost into your assessment of whether Apple products are "overpriced" and let us know whether you reach the same conclusion.

[Moosbrugger]

The Asus VivoPC is similar and much nicer looking :-)

 

I think one issue is that few people know these (and similar PC) devices exist or how to use them.

[wwaldmanfan]

Apple vs. PC is not a useful discussion. When Bill Gates developed DOS, home computers were in their infancy, and he and he parlayed that genius to become one of the wealthiest men alive. But, for me, I found this programming language incomprehensible. I still, to this day, do not know how to operate a Windows PC. So, I embraced the Mac over twenty years ago. They were even pricier then than now. Yet, Jobs and Wozniak created something even an idiot could master, with their GUI and mouse. And, let's not forget that Windows was copied from the Mac interface.

 

As far the cost goes, I paid almost $2,200K for my first Mac, a IIVX, with its whopping 4MB of RAM and 40MB HD. It didn't even include a monitor, and a 16MB RAM upgrade was another $800. In those days, that was a LOT of money. But, considering all the usage I've gotten out of the many Macs that I have owned, including the two iMacs and two Mac Books that currently own, these things have performed reliably, safely, and enriched my life immesurably. I don't agree with everything the company has done, but I will forever be a "Mac guy".

And a shout-out to Damien Plisson, who has created the best music player on the market (Mac only!)

[Jud]

I don't think we are disagreeing on the quality of Apple hardware ... but most brands will be brought low by the quality of the bargain basement ranges. I would be interested (and perhaps Consumer Report Magazine does) on a comparison between Apple laptops and things like Toshiba and Lenovo's top lines.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise, the reason I'm reluctant to get into their rankings is because they use their own criteria that may not match those of many consumers, whereas how often something breaks is an objective measure that will figure into most people's purchase decisions. (There was the year they decided sugar and vitamins in cereal were unimportant, and fiber was what they would do their entire ranking on. Top was Grape Nuts, of which it was reported that when fed to children, some wept and others demanded to know why they were being given "rabbit food.")

[Audio_ELF]

(Top was Grape Nuts, of which it was reported that when fed to children, some wept and others demanded to know why they were being given "rabbit food.")

Hay... When I was a little girl* here in brightly we had "horse feed" for breakfast (aka Shredded Wheat) ... Neigh I digress from the topic at hand!!

 

Eloise

 

*I also asked my momma what will I be?

[NOMBEDES]

This is a silly thread.

 

There is only one reason to buy Apple products.

 

To Wit:

 

They look nicer than most windows machines.

[mordante]

Apple vs. PC is not a useful discussion. When Bill Gates developed DOS, home computers were in their infancy, and he and he parlayed that genius to become one of the wealthiest men alive. But, for me, I found this programming language incomprehensible. I still, to this day, do not know how to operate a Windows PC. So, I embraced the Mac over twenty years ago. They were even pricier then than now. Yet, Jobs and Wozniak created something even an idiot could master, with their GUI and mouse. And, let's not forget that Windows was copied from the Mac interface.

 

As far the cost goes, I paid almost $2,200K for my first Mac, a IIVX, with its whopping 4MB of RAM and 40MB HD. It didn't even include a monitor, and a 16MB RAM upgrade was another $800. In those days, that was a LOT of money. But, considering all the usage I've gotten out of the many Macs that I have owned, including the two iMacs and two Mac Books that currently own, these things have performed reliably, safely, and enriched my life immesurably. I don't agree with everything the company has done, but I will forever be a "Mac guy".

And a shout-out to Damien Plisson, who has created the best music player on the market (Mac only!)

 

Not really sure but wasn't IBM's OS2 the first and both apple and microsoft stole/borrowed ideas from OS2? Not really sure how it all went.

 

And according to some IT friends I have Amiga and Commerdore were the real pioneers. But the people behind those companies were not attention whores like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. That Jay Miner did more for the development of modern computers than Steve Jobs and Bill Gates ever did.