Serious audio needs a seriously good source route

[Thomas Fellov]

Hello all,

First i will clarify what i have of equipment.

 

Mcintosh MA2275 - AMP

Hegel HD25 - DAC

Marten Miles 5 - Speakers

All cables are Nordost heimdall 2

 

My problem is, i am playing music from my computer. AND the computer is around 7 meters from my AMP. As usb is not supposed to go over 5m. I bought an Icron Ranger USB extender, it should be good for audio, BUT i can hear a noticeable drop in detail and sonics. So, what do i do ? I like to play music from my pc, but should i get some kind of streamer ? Get a pc/mac close to the DAC? Then remote in to pc or is there some kind of solution that is smarter than that ? (Hope so)

 

Good ideas is MUCH appreciated

 

/Thomas

[tgb]

hi Thomas,

using usb cable from pc to dac, you send audio... thus you loose quality transfert over long distance.

when you have large distance, simply use interfaces like Sonore Rendu ou Sotm sms100. These interfaces have ethernet input and rca or usb output to connect to the dac. Using ethernet protocol between your pc/nas and the interface you have loss=0 !

 

As you want ideas, I give you my setup I find very easy to use : all files on a nas connected to the network, Minimserver is the dlna server installed on the nas. DLNA interface sotm sms100 connected to the network.

I use dlna application like BubbleUpnp on my smartphone to browse the music collection.

I even don't need a pc ;-) I just put the nas on like the other electronic devices, that's all. Compact and convenient setup according to me.

Rgds

[StephenJK]

Or the answer in this case - why don't you move your computer?

[esldude]

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030312&p_id=6149&seq=1&format=2

 

You could get one of these 10 meter active Monoprice USB Extenders. Available in lengths up to 25 meters. If you search here, there is a thread where Charles Hansen of Ayre liked them better than the Ethernet based solution like the Ircon.

[StephenJK]

Or, you could move your computer and not have to worry about cables 7m long or any of that foolishness.

[mayhem13]

Or, you could move your computer and not have to worry about cables 7m long or any of that foolishness.

 

Because computer audio first and foremost should be about convenience and functionality.......and being forced to move a computer is neither.

[StephenJK]

Because computer audio first and foremost should be about convenience and functionality.......and being forced to move a computer is neither.

 

Seriously? Did you read what you wrote?

 

Computer audio is about audio playback from a digital source with the maximum fidelity and dynamic range that your stereo is able to reproduce. If you want convenience, then stick with your earbuds and your iPod.

 

And your big concern is about "convenience" and not having to move a computer?

 

Thanks for reminding me why I don't post here very often. You truly have lost your way.

[mayhem13]

You got me figured all wrong if you thought that reply wiped any skin off my knee!

 

Consider yourself reminded.

[psp]

Or, you could use a long 75 ohm coax...Audio Asylum Thread Printer

 

Thus, computer -> USB to SPDIF converter --> long coax --> DAC ... etc.

 

i run ~50 ft of Belden 1694a from Blue Jeans cable to my Metrum Octave Mk I and it sounds terrific. Someday I'll move my computer closer to my audio system, but lately I've been doing more listening than tweaking.

 

Pete

[One and a half]

Thomas, which icron ranger you have, some models do not support USB2. I don't notice any losses with a 2244.

[Allan F]

Computer audio is about audio playback from a digital source with the maximum fidelity and dynamic range that your stereo is able to reproduce...

 

Thanks for reminding me why I don't post here very often.

 

Stephen:

 

I agree that with your view of computer audio's primarily purpose. However, the convenience of operating a system via an iPad or other mobile device, or sharing a music library are definite pluses as well.

 

As to your second point regarding certain types of posts, there is an alternative approach. It's called the Ignore List. It can make the Forum a far more enjoyable place to visit.

[Music Matters]

If request is, seriously good sorce... there is only one way for long distaces, and that's AES/EBU you will need SPDIF converter with AES output and a DAC with same input, but HEGEL doesn't have it.

 

I'm using HiFace EVO with custom LPS -> 10m cable -> North Star Supremo DAC with fantastic results.

[StephenJK]

In retrospect I may have overreacted. I do operate my music server with an iPad, it's a convenience that I didn't think I needed and now can't live without!

[Audio_ELF]

In retrospect I may have overreacted. I do operate my music server with an iPad, it's a convenience that I didn't think I needed and now can't live without!

Personally I think the major thing about a computer is that you can get as good (in many cases better) sound quality AND have the convenience. Everybody on Computer Audiophile has to decide where along the

Convinience <-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Sound Quality

continuum they want to be (there was a poll on this very question in the past).

 

I do agree that the first question i would ask is ... why can't you move the computer ... but there are many valid reasons.

 

Personally I would look at a separate computer dedicated to the music system, or a dedicated streamer device rather than having lots of trailing cables though it all depends how the room is setup, etc.

 

Eloise

[Thomas Fellov]

Hi All,

Thanks for your inputs, the thing is i am sitting in my sofa when i am listening to my music. If my computer needs to stand just next to the hifi, i would have to stand up and walk there all the time.

 

Also i like to use my computer, so if its dedicated as music player.. I dont have the possibility of using it.

 

So now im thinking about having a dedicated pc/mac to stand there permanently.

 

But again, if you have some good ideas.. I am VERY open

[4est]

When you are sitting at your sofa, where is the computer and how do you interact with it presently? If there is a TV associated with that sofa, a wireless mouse or keyboard maybe the only thing in order. A wireless keyboeard with a track pad is what I use for my TV for netflix. Alternately as has been noted, a secondary device at the stereo such as Squeezebox streamer, SOtM sMS100, Vortexbox or the like- heck even a $40 RaspberryPi will work a charm if you are handy at all. I suppose a lot depends upon what you have and where you might want to go. All of the devices I mentioned would not be a poor end point, and certainly great intermediary steps.

[Allan F]

So now im thinking about having a dedicated pc/mac to stand there permanently.

 

A dedicated music computer will generally give you better sound quality because it can be optimized for audio. And, as earlier posts have noted, it can also be operated remotely, e.g. sitting on you sofa, via a mobile device such as an iPad or iPhone.

[realhifi]

Hi All,

Thanks for your inputs, the thing is i am sitting in my sofa when i am listening to my music. If my computer needs to stand just next to the hifi, i would have to stand up and walk there all the time.

 

Also i like to use my computer, so if its dedicated as music player.. I dont have the possibility of using it.

 

So now im thinking about having a dedicated pc/mac to stand there permanently.

 

But again, if you have some good ideas.. I am VERY open

 

I would simply get a Mac Mini for your very nice hifi. You already have a good dac so integration into your system would be a snap and if you wanted to, just add an iPad for control. Still one heck of a bargain for a source that has so much flexibility and ability. For less than cost of your Heimdall cables you could have what a lot of folks consider a nearly state of the art source.

[Thomas Fellov]

I would simply get a Mac Mini for your very nice hifi. You already have a good dac so integration into your system would be a snap and if you wanted to, just add an iPad for control. Still one heck of a bargain for a source that has so much flexibility and ability. For less than cost of your Heimdall cables you could have what a lot of folks consider a nearly state of the art source.

 

 

Thanks for you input,

 

Will it be possible to remote the MAC mini from my Pc ? Im not so interested in using my ipad.. And also i play music from youtube when i have some friends over for a party. (yeah i know quality sucks) So thats why if i can remote the MAC from pc, i can also play from youtube from the mac though remote connection from pc. YES its getting complicated

[4est]

If you have an iPad available, it will be easy to use that as a remote or a remote desktop to control a computer(PC or Mac) at your stereo.

Thanks for you input,

 

Will it be possible to remote the MAC mini from my Pc ? Im not so interested in using my ipad.. And also i play music from youtube when i have some friends over for a party. (yeah i know quality sucks) So thats why if i can remote the MAC from pc, i can also play from youtube from the mac though remote connection from pc. YES its getting complicated

[bluesman]

Will it be possible to remote the MAC mini from my Pc ? Im not so interested in using my ipad.. And also i play music from youtube when i have some friends over for a party. (yeah i know quality sucks) So thats why if i can remote the MAC from pc, i can also play from youtube from the mac though remote connection from pc. YES its getting complicated

If you're at all adventurous, you might consider a more modern solution than the same-old same-old PC or Mac. There are many tiny, capable, inexpensive devices that serve a lot of us very well as high quality, convenient music players. Starting with the highest level of owner interaction, you could use a Raspberry Pi (which you'd have to build and be willing to tweak a fair amount) or a BeagleBone Black (much easier to set up - just mount a complete circuit board into a case made to accept it, plug in a power supply, download and install the software per Chris's outstanding instructions) to a Chromebox (fully assembled with OS already on board, ready to connect to the internet and install a player). There are many excellent cube computers too - they're fully assembled and either come with an operating system installed or are ready to download a prepackaged OS with media players.

 

We're talking about tiny computers (BBB is the size of a deck of cards) that you can put wherever your system is located. They're out of sight and you can place them to keep interconnects short. Most of these are Linux-based, and their sound quality is generally excellent. You can use any mobile device to control any of these - there are remote apps for Android & iOS to control almost all of the music players you might consider, e.g. Clementine, MPD, Audacious etc. Or you could use Daphile and control it from any web browser. Source your files from NAS.

 

I currently run a BBB (with MPD as the player) and an Asus Chromebox (with Daphile and Clementine) alongside an AMD-based PC that runs JRiver on Linux. The sound quality from all 3 is interchangeably excellent, although there are minor audible differences among them. If I had to pick only one tiny one, I'd keep the BBB over the Chromebox. I'm about to download JRiver to the Chromebox to see how that works and sounds. The functional beauty of JRiver is that it's easily accessed to control or to play remotely from both iDevices and Androids using Gizmo and Webgizmo. And you could use YouTube as a source from any of these - the Linux distros all have a browser in them. Don't apologize for it - YouTube is a great and easy place to find tunes you want to hear when you want to hear them.

 

It's worth considering.

[tranz]

Another option which is what I ended up doing.

 

Throw everything in another room/closet and only have speaker wires travel the 7m distance.

 

Use the ipad to control playback from your couch.

 

You can use short cables except the speaker ones which are less susceptible to noise. It goes without saying that you still need proper routing for speaker cables, i.e. distanced from power sources, electrical cables and EMI fields, etc.

[4est]

I'd never run speaker cable that long if I had other options.

Another option which is what I ended up doing.

 

Throw everything in another room/closet and only have speaker wires travel the 7m distance.

 

Use the ipad to control playback from your couch.

 

You can use short cables except the speaker ones which are the less susceptible to noise. It goes without saying that you still need proper routing for speaker cables, i.e. distanced from power sources, electrical cables and EMI fields, etc.

[The Computer Audiophile]

You got me figured all wrong if you thought that reply wiped any skin off my knee!

 

Consider yourself reminded.

Much of the time it seems like you are here to argue or get into less than cordial conversations.

[kumakuma]

Much of the time it seems like you are here to argue or get into less than cordial conversations.

 

I thought Mayhem's response was more cordial than the post it answered.