HQ Player

[Miska]

7 hours ago, GMG said:

Would appreciate advice on preferred Linux settings when using Roon+HQPlayer embedded on same computer

What would be the preferred settings:

1. Dual core with multi thread enabled/disabled?

Or:

2. CPU c-state set to “no sleep”

 

"Load optimized defaults" in BIOS, set XMP Profile 1. And then leave Linux kernel as default.

 

7 hours ago, GMG said:

would also appreciate understanding if core isolation/dedication is recommended or not.

 

It will at least screw up HQPlayer... HQPlayer manages it's own settings based on the hardware it is running on, and any OS interference will degrade performance.

 

[Mike Rubin]

I am sure this has been covered somewhere in this thread’s 874 pages, but I gotta ask:  I am using the Desktop software on evaluation and don’t understand the manual’s terminology well enough to make intelligent decisions about settings, so I would appreciate some guidance.

 

HQ Desktop is on a NUC 10i7 with 16gb RAM.  I am streaming over LAN to Rendus connected to DACs capable of playing DSD 512, but the NUC runs really hot with other software when upsampling to DSD 256, so CPU core temps are a consideration for me with any software capable of DSP.

 

Is there a “best practices” set of changes any of you can recommend for this modest server?  Right now, the only change I have made after installation is to change the default output mode to SDM.  
 

Also, at the Signalyst website there is a download link for Network Audio Daemon but I have been unable to figure out what that does and if I need to use it in connection with network streaming.  What is it, exactly?

[bogi]

33 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Also, at the Signalyst website there is a download link for Network Audio Daemon but I have been unable to figure out what that does and if I need to use it in connection with network streaming.  What is it, exactly?

HQPlayer does the upsampling and PCM to DSD conversion thing (which is called SDM - sigma delta modulation). HQPlayer can then send the processing result to directly connected DAC or to NAA (the Network Audio Daemon you mentioned).

NAA (Network Audio Adaptor) is a low power computer running the Network Audio Daemon software. Your DAC is connected to NAA. Using NAA has these advantages:
1. It allows to play from HQPlayer computer to NAAs located distantly from that computer, for example in other rooms.

2. It isolates the NAA connected DAC from electric noise produced by HQPlayer computer and propagating itself in analog forms through interconnect cables to audio chain.

3. If NAA + DAC are placed in different room than HQPlayer computer, then it is not needed to use a special quiet computer as HQPlayer computer - you can use an usual cheaper one with standard cooling.

 

You probably meant Sonore Rendu as "Rendus". Yes, you can use Sonore Rendu products as NAA.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

but the NUC runs really hot with other software when upsampling to DSD 256, so CPU core temps are a consideration for me with any software capable of DSP.

 

Usually there shouldn't need to consider CPU core temps. For example I'm extremely rarely looking at my CPU core temps. Operating systems and BIOS have thermal management and in addition CPUs have built-in thermal protections. Usually reason to look at CPU temps is in case one has performance problems due to thermal throttling. Thermal throttling is way to limit CPU speed in order to protect the CPU, but it should only happen in case of inadequate cooling. For example Apple M1 silicon is performance limited through thermal throttling on MacBook Air and iPad where there's no cooling fan, unlike on MacBook Pro and Mac Mini M1.

 

So far, I have never burned a single CPU despite running very heavy things. HQPlayer is not even heavy on CPUs compared to practically all modern computer games which can run CPU + GPU at constant 100% load on all cores. Usually first thing to blow up are electrolytic capacitors on mainboard or PSU and these usually begin to blow up earliest after 5 years of 24/7 use. One Dell blew mainboard capacitors already after two years of 24/7, and it was located in an air conditioned machine room and was running on light CPU load...

 

People rarely play music 24/7, but I know some people running BitCoin mining 24/7...

 

[Mike Rubin]

6 hours ago, bogi said:

HQPlayer does the upsampling and PCM to DSD conversion thing (which is called SDM - sigma delta modulation). HQPlayer can then send the processing result to directly connected DAC or to NAA (the Network Audio Daemon you mentioned).

NAA (Network Audio Adaptor) is a low power computer running the Network Audio Daemon software. Your DAC is connected to NAA. Using NAA has these advantages:
1. It allows to play from HQPlayer computer to NAAs located distantly from that computer, for example in other rooms.

2. It isolates the NAA connected DAC from electric noise produced by HQPlayer computer and propagating itself in analog forms through interconnect cables to audio chain.

3. If NAA + DAC are placed in different room than HQPlayer computer, then it is not needed to use a special quiet computer as HQPlayer computer - you can use an usual cheaper one with standard cooling.

 

You probably meant Sonore Rendu as "Rendus". Yes, you can use Sonore Rendu products as NAA.

Thank you.  I am using the NAA functionality built into the Rendus' SonicOrbiter OS. I did not realize that it is the Network Audio Daemon. Thank you for clarifying that. 

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Usually there shouldn't need to consider CPU core temps. For example I'm extremely rarely looking at my CPU core temps. Operating systems and BIOS have thermal management and in addition CPUs have built-in thermal protections. Usually reason to look at CPU temps is in case one has performance problems due to thermal throttling. Thermal throttling is way to limit CPU speed in order to protect the CPU, but it should only happen in case of inadequate cooling. For example Apple M1 silicon is performance limited through thermal throttling on MacBook Air and iPad where there's no cooling fan, unlike on MacBook Pro and Mac Mini M1.

 

So far, I have never burned a single CPU despite running very heavy things. HQPlayer is not even heavy on CPUs compared to practically all modern computer games which can run CPU + GPU at constant 100% load on all cores. Usually first thing to blow up are electrolytic capacitors on mainboard or PSU and these usually begin to blow up earliest after 5 years of 24/7 use. One Dell blew mainboard capacitors already after two years of 24/7, and it was located in an air conditioned machine room and was running on light CPU load...

 

People rarely play music 24/7, but I know some people running BitCoin mining 24/7...

 

Thanks, Miska. Unfortunately, the NUC has pretty terrible cooling, with a small fan that cannot be upgraded within the existing case.

 

Those braver than I sometimes move the motherboard into Akasa or HDPlex fanless cases (not easy because removing the motherboard requires effort that may damage the radio cables). The Akasa fanless case runs quieter, not cooler, and the HDPlex both is too large for my space and requires installation of a web of copper vent pipes that I find intimidating.  So, with my NUC,l in its factory case, overheating seems to be a real concern. 

 

Can you suggest a few specific settings changes I can try without too much fear of pushing the CPU into failure? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Thanks, Miska. Unfortunately, the NUC has pretty terrible cooling, with a small fan that cannot be upgraded within the existing case.

 

Those braver than I sometimes move the motherboard into Akasa or HDPlex fanless cases (not easy because removing the motherboard requires effort that may damage the radio cables). The Akasa fanless case runs quieter, not cooler, and the HDPlex both is too large for my space and requires installation of a web of copper vent pipes that I find intimidating.  So, with my NUC,l in its factory case, overheating seems to be a real concern. 

 

Can you suggest a few specific settings changes I can try without too much fear of pushing the CPU into failure? 

It won’t fail. It will gracefully back down the power output until the temperature decreases. 

[Mike Rubin]

50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It won’t fail. It will gracefully back down the power output until the temperature decreases. 

With no effect on SQ if HQP settings are what pushed it into throttling? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Mike Rubin said:

With no effect on SQ if HQP settings are what pushed it into throttling? 

Correct. 

[Miska]

If it overheats and slows down too much, you will start having audio drop-outs, and you will surely notice. Until then it won't affect sound quality etc.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I’m very interested to hear if the NUC works well. It would be great to have small devices capable of running HQP OS and 7EC mods at 256. 

[Mike Rubin]

Is it because I have the "extract cover" box checked that my folders all now have cover.jpg files?  If so, is it possible to use the embedded art rather than extract it?  I really prefer to have my art embedded.  

[Miska]

20 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Is it because I have the "extract cover" box checked that my folders all now have cover.jpg files?  If so, is it possible to use the embedded art rather than extract it?  I really prefer to have my art embedded.  

 

Yes, if you didn't yet have any of the supported detached cover files available. Embedded cover art is used for per-track covers. But for album covers, detached ones are needed. Reading cover images from embedded metadata for album purposes is too slow and inefficient.

 

[Mike Rubin]

31 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, if you didn't yet have any of the supported detached cover files available. Embedded cover art is used for per-track covers. But for album covers, detached ones are needed. Reading cover images from embedded metadata for album purposes is too slow and inefficient.

 

Shane. That's a LOT of extra storage space in a library as large as mine.  😬

[Mike Rubin]

10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’m very interested to hear if the NUC works well. It would be great to have small devices capable of running HQP OS and 7EC mods at 256. 

I am confident the NUC is not the best computer for this software, at least my version of it.  After doing some reading about settings on the net, I changed the default settings for DSD to sinc-L, ASDM7EC, and 44.1/512.  Nothing would play at all;  I just got the blue progressive bars and, then, nothing.  Then, I returned individual parameters back to the default one at a time hoping that playback would start at some point, but it never did, even when all defaults were restored.

 

Eventually, I uninstalled HQP Desktop and figured I would start over. I  will do that once I finish posting this.

 

Frankly, I am of two minds about HQP with the defaults.  I love the width of the sounstage and the liveliness of what I heard, but, on my system, bass was really woolly and piano was just weird:  I can't even describe why the piano seemed "off," but it did.  

 

This far, one thing has seemed clear to me: to use the setups that people describe as best, you almost certainly need more horsepower than I have with this NUC.

 

As an experiment, I can try to install HQP on my daily driver Dell XPS8930 i7 with 32gb RAM and see if that is more capable.  I don't want to use that machine as a server for several reasons, but I am willing to experiment with it.

[bogi]

2 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

DSD to sinc-L, ASDM7EC, and 44.1/512

Nobody is able to run ASDM7EC at DSD512. Try it at DSD256. If it still does not work, either try it at DSD128, or try other modulator like DSD5 at DSD512 or DSD256. As soon as you find an optimal modulator and DSD sample rate, you can try different oversampling filters.

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Shane. That's a LOT of extra storage space in a library as large as mine.  😬

 

I'd say it's less, since you need only one cover image for each album, instead of (likely) repeating the same cover in every track file...

 

But as detached it of course takes same space as it does embedded into a single track's metadata.

 

[semente]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

If it overheats and slows down too much, you will start having audio drop-outs, and you will surely notice. Until then it won't affect sound quality etc.

 

 

What about D/A-affecting "noise"?

Have you observed any correlation between high levels of processing and measured or audible deterioration?

And if so, will the use of a network bridge NAA rectify this issue?

[Miska]

18 minutes ago, semente said:

What about D/A-affecting "noise"?

Have you observed any correlation between high levels of processing and measured or audible deterioration?

 

Not really, when there are effects it is usually load-independent.

 

18 minutes ago, semente said:

And if so, will the use of a network bridge NAA rectify this issue?

 

Yes, that's one of the purposes of NAA.

 

[Mike Rubin]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I'd say it's less, since you need only one cover image for each album, instead of (likely) repeating the same cover in every track file...

 

But as detached it of course takes same space as it does embedded into a single track's metadata.

 

True, but I like to keep art embedded anyway so that I can take tracks with me on portable devices, so I will keep embedded art *and* separate art if decide to buy the license. 

[Mike Rubin]

6 hours ago, bogi said:

Nobody is able to run ASDM7EC at DSD512. Try it at DSD256. If it still does not work, either try it at DSD128, or try other modulator like DSD5 at DSD512 or DSD256. As soon as you find an optimal modulator and DSD sample rate, you can try different oversampling filters.

Thanks. This is good to hear.  I can get ASDM7EC to make sounds at DSD256, but it gets dead spots.  It works at DSD128 just fine.  DSD5 works fine at DSD256, so I guess I need to figure out which sounds consistently best. 

 

Temps spike into the 93c range, but run consistently at about 60c with both settings. 

[Mike Rubin]

EDIT: Spoke too soon. I had these settings working and then my 30 minutes ended. On restart, I couldn't get tracks to play. 

 

OP:  I can get HQP to play DSD512 without dead spots with SincgL and ADM5EC and I can live with the sound quality. 

 

Would any of you be concerned about these temp levels, though? 

[DomiJi]

Hi HQPlayer Users :-)

 

i've tried to find the "best" settings for my ifi Pro iDSD (4x BurrBrown 1793). 

 

At the moment i like ASDM7EC and poly-sinc-gauss a lot (more than poly-sinc-ext2). Is there any "go to" recommendation for BurrBrown DACs? 

 

Beside of that can i optimize anything in my settings to get a better performance/sound quality?

 

Thanks for your help.

Best

Dominik

[Ozan Bolat]

On 4/23/2021 at 12:12 PM, Miska said:

 

Even though PCM begins sounding fairly OK at 1.5M rates, with most of the harshness gone (still a bit left). But mostly PCM still has some of that flat sound character left. And a bit closed-in. Lacking the weight and openness of DSD.

 

For example with PCM bass drums as still a bit like "flap flap" without body, instead of more bodily "thump thump" with DSD.

 

So I keep driving my DACs with DSD from the EC modulators... Detail, smoothness, air and body.

 

if you listen to Fever by Elvis Presley, do you hear the rhythmic as sharp woody claps as if the 2 parts of castanets were hit or as finger snaps as hears Michael Fremer, with differences in fleshiness depending on you spent 450 000 or 560 000 $ for a turntable?

[Miska]

3 hours ago, DomiJi said:

i've tried to find the "best" settings for my ifi Pro iDSD (4x BurrBrown 1793). 

 

At the moment i like ASDM7EC and poly-sinc-gauss a lot (more than poly-sinc-ext2). Is there any "go to" recommendation for BurrBrown DACs? 

 

Both ASDM7EC and ASDM5EC are fine. If you can, select "AFIR4" analog DSD filter on the TI/BB DAC chip.

 

Note that the different DSD filters on TI/BB chips have gain differences (couple of dB), this is good to take into account when comparing.