HQ Player

[bisesik]

Hello Jussi,

Could you be so kind to answer my simple question regarding dithering.

Am I understand correct that using option "DAC bits" = 16 (TDA1541), the "Dither" option will be simply ignored for CDDA (16/44) playback even if it is chosen? Thank you!

[Miska]

29 minutes ago, bisesik said:

Am I understand correct that using option "DAC bits" = 16 (TDA1541), the "Dither" option will be simply ignored for CDDA (16/44) playback even if it is chosen? Thank you!

 

No, it is not ignored. You certainly need to use dither for 16-bit output. Even better if you can run TDA1541 at the original intended rate of 176.4 kHz (or 192k), then you can also utilize noise-shaping to increase dynamic range and lower distortion.

 

In HQPlayer, there's no relation between source and output resolutions.

 

[gancanjam]

New to HQPlayer and upsampling techniques, planning to use it with Holo May DAC. Have few questions, please advice

 

1) Do I purchase HQPlayer Desktop product for my personal use ?

2) Will it upsample any song played by browser from various music web sites from the laptop ?

3) Can I use my Intel i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz windows laptop to upsample to PCM 768KHz or do I need more powerful machine? Can I upsample to DSD24 with the above machine config?

4) What is the expiry duration for trial version?

[bisesik]

Thank you for the reply, Jussi!

Yes, my 1541 is at 176.4kHz always (352.8kHz is a target for future).

BTW, just interesting. How much LSBs are engaged in your dither/shaper algorithm?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, bisesik said:

Yes, my 1541 is at 176.4kHz always (352.8kHz is a target for future).

BTW, just interesting. How much LSBs are engaged in your dither/shaper algorithm?

 

TPDF/Gauss1 flat dithers are 1-bit. Dithered noise-shapers are "mostly 1-bit", but it depends and not strictly bounded to just last bit.

 

[bisesik]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

TPDF/Gauss1 flat dithers are 1-bit. Dithered noise-shapers are "mostly 1-bit", but it depends and not strictly bounded to just last bit.

Thank you very much!

 

There is one another interesting thing. I use my 1541A with iancanada's I2S-PCM converter and my question is. Which approach can gives better SQ if the mode half-speed is enabled on I2S-PCM board? Is there any reason to use filtering/NS recommended for higher rates in HQP in this case or better to disable half-speed mode on i2s-pcm board and to use filters/NS for lower (real) rates?

 

Thank you very much again Jussi for your answers!

Ivan.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, bisesik said:

There is one another interesting thing. I use my 1541A with iancanada's I2S-PCM converter and my question is. Which approach can gives better SQ if the mode half-speed is enabled on I2S-PCM board? Is there any reason to use filtering/NS recommended for higher rates in HQP in this case or better to disable half-speed mode on i2s-pcm board and to use filters/NS for lower (real) rates?

 

Thank you very much again Jussi for your answers!

 

I don't know what half-speed mode you are talking about is. But just keep HQPlayer doing output at fixed 176.4k (or higher if you can) output, regardless of source rate. Choice of noise-shaping applies to output rates, source rates don't matter in this respect.

 

TDA1541A was originally designed to be used with SAA7220 digital filter chip which outputs 176.4k from CD sources.

 

[bisesik]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

I don't know what half-speed mode you are talking about is.

Half speed means that in fact all data is going to 1541 at a half of rate shown in HQP output settings. 1541 can play at 352.8kHz (x8) input stream using simultaneous mode (instead of I2S). So in fact I can set HQP output settings as 705.6kHz (x16). Then it goes to i2s-pcm converter where "half-speed" jumper is enabled, thus 705.6kHz becomes 352.8kHz (LE line is 352.8kHz). Thus 705.6kHz (x16) in HQP becomes 352.8kHz (x8) on 1541. That is why was my question. What is better, to set HQP at 705.6kHz and to use half-speed mode on 1541, or to set 352.8kHz on both HQP and 1541?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, bisesik said:

or to set 352.8kHz on both HQP and 1541?

 

This one... HQPlayer should know the actual rate going to D/A conversion.

[Miska]

By the way, with some backends, HQPlayer supports "2wire" mode. Also sometimes known as dual-AES mode. Where both left and right channels of same SPDIF/AES/I2S line are used for one channel. And then two SPDIF/AES/I2S lines to do stereo. This allows reaching double sampling rate per channel.

 

[bisesik]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

By the way, with some backends, HQPlayer supports "2wire" mode. Also sometimes known as dual-AES mode. Where both left and right channels of same SPDIF/AES/I2S line are used for one channel. And then two SPDIF/AES/I2S lines to do stereo. This allows reaching double sampling rate per channel.

 

Hmmmm. You mean technically DAC chips are simply alternating both channels on to two output channels connected together? Something like simple conveer principle? Indeed interesting! Defenitely I will need to dig this approach, as NOS mode for 1541A is an absurd decision in terms of sound resolution to be honest, but vice versa, it plays as better as higher the oversampling can be achieved. Thanks again, Jussi!

 

 

[zoltan]

19 hours ago, gancanjam said:

New to HQPlayer and upsampling techniques, planning to use it with Holo May DAC. Have few questions, please advice

 

1) Do I purchase HQPlayer Desktop product for my personal use ?

2) Will it upsample any song played by browser from various music web sites from the laptop ?

3) Can I use my Intel i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz windows laptop to upsample to PCM 768KHz or do I need more powerful machine? Can I upsample to DSD24 with the above machine config?

4) What is the expiry duration for trial version?

1) Yes
2) It will not do that if you use a browser. To my knowledge, you cannot integrate a streaming service into HQP or integrate HQP into a browser as plug-in. I think the only way is to use Roon + HQPlayer + Tidal or Qobuz. Will not work with anything else, like Youtube, etc. I may be wrong though. 
3) Depends on the filter you use but I doubt that you can. DSD24 you said does not exist, it's either DSD64/128/256/512/1024. I have a more powerful machine than yours (3.6Ghz i7 desktop, 16GB ram, etc) and DSD256 only works with -2 filters. PCM768 may work for you. You just try. If it doesn't, it will stutter. It will not destroy your laptop. 
4) It used to be 30 days when I tried years ago, probably still is. 

[Miska]

(2) is possible under various different setups. But not directly suitable for video use due to involved processing delay.

 

[Ozan Bolat]

38 minutes ago, Miska said:

(2) is possible under various different setups. But not directly suitable for video use due to involved processing delay.

 

I have never been able to make it work either with Blackhole or Loopback : on the Mac Mini M1 the Input Device Settings keeps reverting to none. 

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Ozan Bolat said:

I have never been able to make it work either with Blackhole or Loopback : on the Mac Mini M1 the Input Device Settings keeps reverting to none. 

 

This is likely due to problem accessing the input device.

 

Easiest and most flexible is to use RME ADI-2 Pro with HQPlayer Embedded. This allows automatic rate switching for digital inputs and also includes ADC for analog sources. It is also possible through Linux based NAA and ADI-2 Pro.

[Ozan Bolat]

45 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

This is likely due to problem accessing the input device.

 

Easiest and most flexible is to use RME ADI-2 Pro with HQPlayer Embedded. This allows automatic rate switching for digital inputs and also includes ADC for analog sources. It is also possible through Linux based NAA and ADI-2 Pro.

thank you but I have recently chosen and acquired Spring 3 and have no intention to purchase a new gear. And how far are we from Embedded on M1?

How can I solve imput device access for HQP desktop on M1 Mac ?

[Miska]

44 minutes ago, Ozan Bolat said:

thank you but I have recently chosen and acquired Spring 3 and have no intention to purchase a new gear.

 

I was talking about input devices, not about DAC...

 

44 minutes ago, Ozan Bolat said:

And how far are we from Embedded on M1?

 

Not in near future. If there is at some point a proper M1 version of  the Linux distributions I support, then it is possible.

 

44 minutes ago, Ozan Bolat said:

How can I solve imput device access for HQP desktop on M1 Mac ?

 

For me, ADI-2 Pro is working on Mac, up to DSD256. Did you check that HQPlayer has been granted access to "Microphone"? But another alternative is to use NAA for input side.

 

[gancanjam]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

(2) is possible under various different setups. But not directly suitable for video use due to involved processing delay.

 

 

Thanks Miska. 

 

I am not looking for videos or youtube , I do not have Roon either.

 

I am only looking at two things from laptop,

 

1) Asian music web sites such as https://www.jiosaavn.com/ listen from chrome browser from laptop (70% I use this) 

2) Tidal application from laptop (30% I use this) 

 

My understanding of HQPlayer Desktop as the name suggests  is, "any sound output from desktop will be upsampled" which means it should upsample music sites and Tidal application songs, please confirm if my assumption is correct

 

Will my I7 / 1.90GHz laptop upsample at least PCM 768KHz ? 

 

Thanks again, HQPlayer is wonderful paired with Holo May when I auditioned so hoping it is "easy" to setup and make it work for my needs, else I need to plan such as get Roon/music server/bigger laptop etc.

 

 

[Miska]

21 minutes ago, gancanjam said:

My understanding of HQPlayer Desktop as the name suggests  is, "any sound output from desktop will be upsampled" which means it should upsample music sites and Tidal application songs, please confirm if my assumption is correct

 

HQPlayer can read normal audio inputs. Please use the free trial to check that things work for you.

 

51 minutes ago, gancanjam said:

Will my I7 / 1.90GHz laptop upsample at least PCM 768KHz ? 

 

Should be fine yes.

 

[57gold]

Jussi - Listened to Opeth, when I saw that you liked their music.  As a guitarist, I dig their big guitar tone and was hearing Yes influences from the 1970s.  Had never heard of these guys, as I play in a blues and jazz based jam band and more in tune with that vernacular.  Huge sounding recordings, rocked my walls when cranked. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Question - With all the testing you do, have you been able to see/measure impacts of various USB cables as they deal with data being delivered to DACs from PCs/Servers?  

[gancanjam]

Can you please recommend some DACs which has great synergy with HQPlayer. 

 

Holo May and Holo Spring are for sure, are there other recommended DACs ?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, 57gold said:

Question - With all the testing you do, have you been able to see/measure impacts of various USB cables as they deal with data being delivered to DACs from PCs/Servers?  

 

So far only with Chord Mojo, which has especially sensitive USB interface.

 

As a result I use standard USB HiSpeed or SuperSpeed certified cables. Plus one Supra USB cable, but never noticed any difference using it.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, gancanjam said:

Holo May and Holo Spring are for sure, are there other recommended DACs ?

 

T+A DACs running in DSD mode, using their True 1-bit converter.

 

And Denafrips DACs.

 

And DACs that have AKM chip and support DSD Direct mode.

 

But there are certainly others out there too, with discrete DSD implementation.

 

[bogi]

18 hours ago, Ozan Bolat said:

I have never been able to make it work either with Blackhole or Loopback : on the Mac Mini M1 the Input Device Settings keeps reverting to none. 

No problem for me on Windows to direct any computer sound to HQPlayer through virtual audio cable when I wish so. I am using it for example with the current Superstar series in Slovakia. ;) The audio delay without NAA is in my case about 1s. It can be compensated in usual video players and also in web browser with suitable plugin - for example I tried 'YouTube Audio/Video Sync'. I only tried that plugin - it worked, but I rather prefer downloading video content if possible and then playing it through a video player, which supports device selection and at least WASAPI - so not all computer sounds go to HQPlayer when using virtual audio cable.

[MemoryPlayer]

@Miska

 

When the new ASDM5ECv2 and ASDM7ECv2 modulator variants will be available to the Desktop version?