HQ Player

[freesteve]

What is your best sounding set up for Mac?  I only play lossless, mostly flac.  My DAC is a SAC2 HGC using ATC  SCM 25A Pros and Purist cable.  Thank you.

[freesteve]

1 hour ago, freesteve said:

What is your best sounding set up for Mac?  I only play lossless, mostly flac.  Thank you.

 

[ted_b]

As I've commented ad nauseum, I continue to sit on the sidelines until my room is built out.  However, I COULD spend the time updating my server if you guys think it wise (I've already bought a powerful NUC from Larry for my NAA).  Is it a foregone conclusion that my i7-6700k will not do any EC modulators to DSD256 (which is amazing if true cuz I could do anything except non -2s to 512 with ease..but we've discussed this also ad nauseum  )?

[firedog]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

As I've commented ad nauseum, I continue to sit on the sidelines until my room is built out.  However, I COULD spend the time updating my server if you guys think it wise (I've already bought a powerful NUC from Larry for my NAA).  Is it a foregone conclusion that my i7-6700k will not do any EC modulators to DSD256 (which is amazing if true cuz I could do anything except non -2s to 512 with ease..but we've discussed this also ad nauseum  )?

Ted-a little surprised you are using a NUC as an NAA and not some specialized, extra quiet, especially electrically clean streamer device. Just interested in your POV.Have you come over to the idea that audio playback device itself isn’t very important in SQ? Don’t NUCs have fans?

[ted_b]

46 minutes ago, firedog said:

Have you come over to the idea that audio playback device itself isn’t very important in SQ? Don’t NUCs have fans?

Playback devices are very important.  My highly tweaked I7-8650U quad-core AudioLinux-based NUC is in a fanless Aksa case and is specifically built to be a silent NAA.  With that said, it's still in its box cuz I have no system at the moment, so any sq feedback is premature. 

 

BTW, I started a new thread where we can go and talk about hardware/software tweaks to help run the new HQPlayer 4 EC modulators.  It probably needs its own home.

 

 

[Yviena]

Hmm I see that there is a 4.11.1 embedded version with EC modulator optimizations, has anyone tried it out to see if they can get DSD256 working with it?

[rando]

I was sitting on the sidelines waiting for confirmation on desire for this thread.  It has benchmarks and a whole ton of proven headaches for Miska attached.  

 

So thank you @ted_b for dedicating the amount of time necessary to examine the landscape.  There seems to be a sizeable group unaware of how to tune their gaming optimized mb's in general.  Without the strain of EC modulators making clear wasted potential.  So I'm quite sure those outside HQP ownership will be enriched as well by this direction of interest.

[AnotherSpin]

Hi Miska – I found out the audio buffer is not grayed anymore in mac version settings. What is the value of default setting? Is this the same 10 ms as in Windows version? - Thank you.

[Miska]

2 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

Hi Miska – I found out the audio buffer is not grayed anymore in mac version settings. What is the value of default setting? Is this the same 10 ms as in Windows version? - Thank you.

 

That's a mistake/bug then. What ever is set there for CoreAudio is not used.

 

[Jerry]

11 hours ago, ted_b said:

As I've commented ad nauseum, I continue to sit on the sidelines until my room is built out.  However, I COULD spend the time updating my server if you guys think it wise (I've already bought a powerful NUC from Larry for my NAA).  Is it a foregone conclusion that my i7-6700k will not do any EC modulators to DSD256 (which is amazing if true cuz I could do anything except non -2s to 512 with ease..but we've discussed this also ad nauseum  )?

 

I overclocked my i7-6700k to 4.8GHz, off loaded filter workload to a GTX1080, I can do any EC modulators at DSD256 with any filters including non-2s smoothly. CPU loads is around 60-70%, GPU with xtr filters is around 60%, other filters are much lower.

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

 

I overclocked my i7-6700k to 4.8GHz, off loaded filter workload to a GTX1080, I can do any EC modulators at DSD256 with any filters including non-2s smoothly. CPU loads is around 60-70%, GPU with xtr filters is around 60%, other filters are much lower.

That is a nice option, but when I go and look for a GTX1080 all I find are $450 video cards (maybe I'm in error here)....I can get a new mobo and i7-9700k for that.  Ouch.

 

Edit: Plus I wish we were discussing this over on the other hardware thread I started.

[AnotherSpin]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That's a mistake/bug then. What ever is set there for CoreAudio is not used.

 

 

Interestingly enough, the sound is changed when I tried any other value than default. It becomes more "soft" and airy with increase, but, at the same time loses some solid ground and definition.

[Jerry]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

That is a nice option, but when I go and look for a GTX1080 all I find are $450 video cards (maybe I'm in error here)....I can get a new mobo and i7-9700k for that.  Ouch.

 

Edit: Plus I wish we were discussing this over on the other hardware thread I started.

 

1) 1080 is previous generation card and 1060 and 1070 may actually has the same CUDA performance.

2) $450 for a new CPU+mobo where no overclocking is needed, but you still don't have a GPU to offload some filter works...

 

Sorry, where is the other hardware thread?

[firedog]

6 hours ago, ted_b said:

That is a nice option, but when I go and look for a GTX1080 all I find are $450 video cards (maybe I'm in error here)....I can get a new mobo and i7-9700k for that.  Ouch.

 

Edit: Plus I wish we were discussing this over on the other hardware thread I started.

A little confused. Don't you want a low powered device for your NAA and a high powered device for your server with HQP desktop installed? Isn't it preferable to have the heavy lifting done on your server? 

[ted_b]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

A little confused. Don't you want a low powered device for your NAA and a high powered device for your server with HQP desktop installed? Isn't it preferable to have the heavy lifting done on your server? 

I'm talking server there in that quote.  I have an i7-6700k and it's not enough for EC (unless, as Jerry says, I overclock it to the max and figure out how to keep it cool, then go gpu).  So either spend $$ on gpu or new mobo/chipset.  I own an older GTX 960 but no idea if it's a paper weight now. 

[Lbameule]

Dear all,

 

I'm new to this forum, maybe @Miska or anyone can help me out.

 

I've been a user of HQP for quite a while, I think my first version was 3.10. I have a Devialet amp/DAC, which only goes to DSD64. Up to one of the following 3.x versions I was able to use DirectSDM to send my DSD streams directly to the DAC. From then on (somewhere around 3.14 o 3.16, can't remember well when) I started getting stuttering, long pauses and then restarting for a few seconds, that kind of thing. No problems whatsover with PCM, Convolution on or off. I use Roon, so after some trials I found that a solution was to convert my DSD64 files to PCM176k in Roon, and then send those to HQP. No problems at all there. Exactly the same happened when HQP was upgraded to v4.

 

Now, I run both Roon and HQP in an old MacBook Pro mid-2012, with 16Gb RAM, a i7, two core CPU (3520M) running at 2.9Mhz. I use Mac OS High Sierra (10.13). This is then relayed via NAA to a microRendu. I know this older system can be an issue here. So, my questions:

 

a) DirectSDM means that nothing is touched from the original stream, and is sent as such to the DAC, doesn't it? Am I correct in that assumption? Then, why does CPU usage goes to the sky, and I get this stuttering and pauses? This happens whether I use convolution or not. Again, I'm only trying to play DSD64 files, no upsampling, no Convolution, nothing applied... PCM, as said, is not a problem. 44.1 up to 192, no issues. Devialets go up to 192k and DSD64, so I'm not looking to upsample anything beyond that. CPU usage when doing PCM rarely goes beyond 17%.

 

b) I've read somewhere in this thread that Mac OS High SIerra could also be (at least partially) a stumbling block, and that other versions work better, is that so? Would upgrading to Mojave bring any improvement in your experience?

 

Let me know if you need any other data. I'm at the office now, away from my system. In my setting, my max rate in PCM is 192, Integer upsampling (so any 44.1 file will be upmsampled to 176). I'm ticking DirectSDM, so nothing on the settings on DSD sources should matter, except for the fact that DSD64 is the max rate, maybe...

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, best regards to all!

 

L
 

 

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Lbameule said:

a) DirectSDM means that nothing is touched from the original stream, and is sent as such to the DAC, doesn't it? Am I correct in that assumption? Then, why does CPU usage goes to the sky, and I get this stuttering and pauses? This happens whether I use convolution or not. Again, I'm only trying to play DSD64 files, no upsampling, no Convolution, nothing applied... PCM, as said, is not a problem. 44.1 up to 192, no issues. Devialets go up to 192k and DSD64, so I'm not looking to upsample anything beyond that. CPU usage when doing PCM rarely goes beyond 17%.

 

Yes, in case you are asking SDM output. If you are asking for PCM output, it only disables volume control on v4. So if you are using DSD to PCM conversion, it can get quite heavy.

 

[Lbameule]

26 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, in case you are asking SDM output. If you are asking for PCM output, it only disables volume control on v4. So if you are using DSD to PCM conversion, it can get quite heavy.

 

Hi, Miska, thanks for your answer. No, my idea is not to change the source format. So anything DSD should come out DSD, PCM in PCM. So, to be more direct and to the point:

 

Do I need to start thinking about upgrading my computer? DirectSDM actually does something to whatever is being sent in SDM into HQP, and there is basically nothing I can do but upgrade the hardware, is that so? What would be the less computationally heavy setting I could use to listen do DSD64 when sourcing DSD64?

 

Also, any ideas on the macOS version comment (High Sierra being "worse" that Mojave) ?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

L

 

[Miska]

12 minutes ago, Lbameule said:

Hi, Miska, thanks for your answer. No, my idea is not to change the source format. So anything DSD should come out DSD, PCM in PCM. So, to be more direct and to the point:

 

That is usually quite unusual case to do. Not many DACs actually have two separate DACs, and even fewer perform well enough in both modes to be worth switching over.

 

But depending on your settings, you can do the switch.

 

14 minutes ago, Lbameule said:

DirectSDM actually does something to whatever is being sent in SDM into HQP, and there is basically nothing I can do but upgrade the hardware, is that so?

 

Only channel delays for DSD when speaker processing is enabled. But DirectSDM setting applies only to DSD->DSD case anyway.

 

[Lbameule]

11 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

That is usually quite unusual case to do. Not many DACs actually have two separate DACs, and even fewer perform well enough in both modes to be worth switching over.

 

But depending on your settings, you can do the switch.

 

 

Only channel delays for DSD when speaker processing is enabled. But DirectSDM setting applies only to DSD->DSD case anyway.

 

Thanks again.

 

Well, Devialet amps are like that, you can send any of the two formats (PCM up to 192, DSD 64) and it will work fine with both. Now, which format "sounds better", that's a different question and completely up to personal taste. Both sound very, very good to me, and I may attribute more to the particularities of the format to any possible difference in SQ, than to the DAC being "better" in PCM or in DSD... The thing is that using DirectSDM my CPU usage is hugely more than when processing PCM. What actually happens is that CPU usage doesn't change whether I choose DirectSDM or try to actually use filters and convolution with a DSD file... Any dsd file I play (through Roon or using HQP directly to the DAC) squeezes the poor 2012 i7 chip to the bone, that's what sounds strange to me, because according to your answers DirectSDM shouldn't be such a hog on the system at all... I use no channel delays...

 

Maybe I should include an image of my settings so you can see what I'm doing and maybe detect something wrong. I'll post them from one in a while.

 

Once again, thanks for your answers and patience!

 

 

 

[Theobetley]

Any plans to    provide ec like modulators to    pcm?

[Xoverman]

Hi, just wanted you to know. I successfully managed to run any EC modulators to DSD256 with a AMD Ryzen™ 5 2400GE . Filter offloaded to RTX 2080.

I can easely overclock the 2400GE to 4 GHz with AMD Ryzen Master.

Power consumption of the CPU is at 40 W. I can play all Filters in this constellation. 

cheers 

[Account Closed]

5 hours ago, Theobetley said:

Any plans to    provide ec like modulators to    pcm?

Anything that is a "modulator" is only for a direct digital stream (DSD). PCM must first be converted to a direct digital stream before SDM (Sigma Delta Modulation) can be applied to it. True PCM playback can only be accomplished by hardware that does multi-bit processing. A good example is a R2R ladder DAC like those used by MSB, Holo or Denifripps to mention just a few. The other way is by using a multi-bit chip like Schiit does in some of its DACs.

 

Most chip DACs use a proprietary process to convert incoming PCM to a digital stream before applying SDM modulation to it.

 

The bottom line is that unless one has heard PCM converted by a multi-bit processor, one has not really heard PCM.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

FINDINGS/Confirmations

 

1. It took me a long time to adopt NAA ; Miska's image on a MB Air was a big improvement. It's even incredibly better now that the $189 UP is running powered connected to the DAC/Regen combo 24/24 (very important). Do yourselves a favour...

 

2. No coming back from EC modulators

 

3. Desktop's last iteration is definitely much better on the (unsupported) WS 2012 OS than Embedded's (DSD5EC in use)

 

4. @Miska how come I'm limited (to avoid stuttering )to the least demanding filters and 44.1 with DSD5EC and Embedded ?

 

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

@Miska for the time being, I keep the MB Air on loan so I can run my Pro in another room on a cooling board.

 

I feel stupid after several years of HQP use, but I'd like to optimise use of Library and Client... (been D&Ding for ages)

 

I can't get rid of a single album I entered via File>Library>Scan and, when using Client,  it's the only one that appears under "Album view" even if I have dragged and dropped a dozen albums in HQP's window

 

Consequently I have to launch from a list of all loaded tracks and it's very messy

 

btw I would appreciate letters to be be brighter and maybe font bigger

 

If I was to solve the single album stuck in album view, can I reasonably expect to have my thousands of ripped/dowloaded albums to populate Library (tried to but never got the patience or was limited by Trial to see a result) and easily pick the one I want via Client ?

 

Isn't there a way to D&D from Client, or another form of remote, so that I could ie browse via the Air my Music HDD and feed the Pro in the adjacent room?

 

Simply put : what is your recommended workflow/config when music files are accessible on a Wifi HDD and that the computer at hands is not the one running the main HQP engine ?