OK, I tried hydrogen audio. It didn't go too well.

[Don Hills]

Don

Feel free to start a new thread. (grin) ...

 

Actually, I just did. But not about DACs. I can't afford a new one right now, and I just get depressed pining for that which I cannot have...

[sandyk]

Eagerly awaiting the list of non-defective DACs.

 

Especially those that use USB and perform to equally high levels of SQ no matter what type and brand of fully standards compliant USB cable is used.(other than supposedly the latest Phasure NOS DAC)

[Audio_ELF]

Especially those that use USB and perform to equally high levels of SQ no matter what type and brand of fully standards compliant USB cable is used.(other than supposedly the latest Phasure NOS DAC)

Supposedly the exaSound DACs too. Interestingly neither use UAC2.0 interfaces.

[Jud]

Feel free to suggest one. I didn't even suggest or imply that I'd provide a list.

 

Hi Don. I have no quibbles at all with the way you want to categorize DACs. It's not the same way I'd do it, but surely there's room for more than one way to do this in the world. Besides, we've chatted about this before in other threads, I have a good idea about at least one DAC you're thinking of, and it's a very well built DAC.

 

But notice it wasn't your comment I responded to, it was jriver's. It's *his* idea of what a non-defective DAC would be that I'm interested in. In particular, if he'd be willing to play along sufficiently to answer what is an admittedly loaded question (or two of them, actually):

 

- Do you (jriver) know of any non-defective DACs less expensive than the new Berkeley Reference?

 

- If so, do you then consider the Reference a rip-off?

[4est]

Couldn't help yourself eh?

You mean... like most of the people who love Apple products? :grin:

[4est]

And your work shows it! Thank you!

I would consider myself objectivist, but instead of trying to disprove my own subjective observations I try to find ways to figure out objective methods that correlate with those subjective observations.

 

If I find that flowers smell better than shit, I don't immediately go and say that there cannot be a difference if both release same amount of molecules. And that the topic cannot be discussed because it has not been scientifically shown that flower molecules would be technically better than shit molecules.

 

If we would always stick to what has already been proven and is status quo, nothing would ever progress.

[kennyb123]

- Do you (jriver) know of any non-defective DACs less expensive than the new Berkeley Reference?

 

In the unlikely event that you get an answer, you might not recognize the DAC they name - unless you are familiar with models sold in the land of make believe. :-)

[spdif-usb]

Couldn't help yourself eh?

Yeah... you should see the other thread. lol

[Paul R]

I think it's immature to complain about one forum on another forum.

 

it may be, but it is plain *stupid* to not discuss and understand why some other group of people supposedly interested in the same subject as this group of people, come to such different conclusions.

 

The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths, and have unjustified faith in several different methods. To a far lesser degree, the same might be said of people here.

 

Yet people here seem to manage to get along, even with wildly disparate views.

 

People here even manage to learn from each other occasionally. Depending upon how much patience they have at any particular moment. I mean learn things other than how to be a member of what looks to be a hostile, belligerent, pseudo-scientific cult.

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

Now you can turn this from subjective to objective by obtaining bunch of DACs and measuring their output in different configurations. I've been doing that, while my primary focus is still on inspecting effectiveness of my DSP algorithms in real world situations.

 

A sensible path, easily defended, and likely to produce wonderful results. Not the only path by any means - many rivers flow from a single source and to the same sea.

 

-Paul

[Kal Rubinson]

The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths, and have unjustified faith in several different methods. To a far lesser degree, the same might be said of people here.

 

Yet people here seem to manage to get along, even with wildly disparate views.

 

People here even manage to learn from each other occasionally. Depending upon how much patience they have at any particular moment. I mean learn things other than how to be a member of what looks to be a hostile, belligerent, pseudo-scientific cult.

 

Agreed, tolerance is important. Another factor is that some forums/sites have an official philosophy that limits expression only to comments that are consistent with the dogma.

[beanbag]

 

The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths,

 

What "maths" are they required to be proficient in?

[Paul R]

What "maths" are they required to be proficient in?

 

I suspect you are just being a smart ass, but I'll give you a real answer. In any scientific endeavor, amateur or professional, one should at least be able to pass an EMT/ELM or the equivalent. That is, by the way, the *starting* point for any electrical engineering degree, and most other science degrees.

 

-Paul

[sandyk]

Beanbag being a smart arse ? Never !

He is the official Hydrogen Audio Ambassador to Computer Audiophile .

[wgscott]

You seem to attract them like flies to Shi'ite.

[wgscott]

IIn any scientific endeavor, amateur or professional, one should at least be able to pass an EMT/ELM or the equivalent. That is, by the way, the *starting* point for any electrical engineering degree, and most other science degrees.

 

-Paul

 

I have no idea what this is, FWIW.

[Paul R]

I have no idea what this is, FWIW.

 

And you in California? Or is it because I typed EMT vice EPT?

 

English Placement Test / Entry Level Math test.

 

Example: EPT/ELM Test Information - Admissions - CSU, Chico

[sandyk]

You seem to attract them like flies to Shi'ite.

 

Shhh Louie, or I will give you a spray of Mortein.

 

[wgscott]

And you in California? Or is it because I typed EMT vice EPT?

 

English Placement Test / Entry Level Math test.

 

Example: EPT/ELM Test Information - Admissions - CSU, Chico

 

Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

 

It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.

[Jud]

Unless we are talking about the level of math required to write filters or have a real understanding of them, I don't see math as having a lot to do with being able to contribute to conversations about digital audio.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alfe]

Unless we are talking about the level of math required to write filters or have a real understanding of them, I don't see math as having a lot to do with being able to contribute to conversations about digital audio.

 

You mean that you don't need to know more than 2 digit to contribute to a digital conversation ¨-)

[gmgraves]

Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

 

It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.

 

 

That's common. Most Americans do say "math" (singular) instead of "maths" (plural). But when you consider that "maths" is short for mathematics and NO ONE ever says "mathematic", then you realize that "maths" is the correct usage. Not a big deal though.

[beanbag]

Beanbag being a smart arse ? Never !

He is the official Hydrogen Audio Ambassador to Computer Audiophile .

 

Only a deluded person would think that someone with two posts ever on a forum is their ambassador.

[Paul R]

Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

 

It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.

 

I was surrounded by both Brits and Aussies, as well as a few New Zealanders and Japanese in my early professional life. Like those friendships, some of the verbal sayings "stuck." In visiting a few of their Colleges, I was also introduced to a non-American and non-Canadian style of study. Fortunately, that did not stick.

 

I had heard there was a lot of consternation in California about the insistence on using these tests, though they are not used for admissions. But you are the man in the spot and know more about that than I do.

 

I will rephrase and say that the basic human college student should have a good grounding in mathematics, for any technical or scientific major. Even if you give them a year to remediate any deficiencies.

 

P.S. I was not trying to pick on you, but when your kiddos get to be seniors in high school, I bet they will hear of them. They will laugh at them and breeze through them with no stress at all, but the will probably hear of them. They could probably pass them in 7th or 8th grade...

[sandyk]

Only a deluded person would think that someone with two posts ever on a forum is their ambassador.

 

Only a deluded person would keep defending them, knowing the feeling many CA members have about a forum with such strict censorship.( Rule No.8 for example)