rhmmmm Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 IsoTek EVO3 Nova here. isoTek EVO3 Optimum 20A cable from wall. All Nordost power cables (Brahma, Frey 2) to components. Had an IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius first. It made the first noticeable difference I’d heard from a power conditioning product so I moved up the line. I’d previously tried basic solutions from Running Springs (made sound worse) and then a PS Audio P5 (no noticeable change at all). The IsoTek stuff provided more focus, clarity and better soundstaging. As with everything, system matching is important, these things are subjective, and YMMV. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 4 hours ago, rhmmmm said: IsoTek EVO3 Nova here. isoTek EVO3 Optimum 20A cable from wall. All Nordost power cables (Brahma, Frey 2) to components. Had an IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius first. It made the first noticeable difference I’d heard from a power conditioning product so I moved up the line. I’d previously tried basic solutions from Running Springs (made sound worse) and then a PS Audio P5 (no noticeable change at all). The IsoTek stuff provided more focus, clarity and better soundstaging. As with everything, system matching is important, these things are subjective, and YMMV. IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius Interesting... https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/isotek-evo3-aquarius It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
shtf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 17 hours ago, Paul R said: Not so! Personally, I have found the most bang for the buck in using a UPS that regenerates the power from battery. A decent one will put out very very clean sine wave power that audio gear just adores. And truth be told, the Uber expensive units do not sound any better than an APC unit for a couple hundred dollars. Sighted or blind in my case. -Paul If there was any truth to what you say, then considering the UPS you're speaking of being quite inexpensive and if indeed they provided one of the biggest (not the biggest) jumps in musicality, I'd venture most / all would already own 2, 3, or 4 of these UPS' because it would be a no brainer and considered foundational to every last system. If what you say is true. In fact, if what you say held any truth, I'd also venture we wouldn't be dialoguing about this because this thread probably would never have been created because the issue would have been settled years ago. But as things stand, most are still all over the map with many refusing to even engage with new threads like this popping up routinely and with the vast majority of playback systems still sounding like cheap hi-fi. Which, if anything, would seem to substantiate my position on the matter. The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
fas42 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, shtf said: But as things stand, most are still all over the map with many refusing to even engage with new threads like this popping up routinely and with the vast majority of playback systems still sounding like cheap hi-fi. Which, if anything, would seem to substantiate my position on the matter. Oh dear, ! ... But I know what you mean ... . The issue for those audiophiles is really that they don't appreciate how good recording playback can be - they've accepted a compromised standard as being "as good as it gets!", and don't see any point in aiming higher ... The mindset is everything - if one knows what can be achieved then you'll keep striving to better the SQ, any which way that makes sense; otherwise, why bother? Link to comment
shtf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, fas42 said: Oh dear, ! ... But I know what you mean ... . The issue for those audiophiles is really that they don't appreciate how good recording playback can be - they've accepted a compromised standard as being "as good as it gets!", and don't see any point in aiming higher ... The mindset is everything - if one knows what can be achieved then you'll keep striving to better the SQ, any which way that makes sense; otherwise, why bother? I will only say that I think you're being way too kind. The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 18 hours ago, Paul R said: Not so! Personally, I have found the most bang for the buck in using a UPS that regenerates the power from battery. A decent one will put out very very clean sine wave power that audio gear just adores. And truth be told, the Uber expensive units do not sound any better than an APC unit for a couple hundred dollars. Sighted or blind in my case. -Paul Well then.... Anyone here want to buy this for only $100.00, plus shipping? APC Smart-UPS 750VA LCD 120V Essential brand new. Used for only a few days. On Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-Battery-Backup-SMT750/dp/B002MZW5KE It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 54 minutes ago, shtf said: If there was any truth to what you say, then considering the UPS you're speaking of being quite inexpensive and if indeed they provided one of the biggest (not the biggest) jumps in musicality, I'd venture most / all would already own 2, 3, or 4 of these UPS' because it would be a no brainer and considered foundational to every last system. If what you say is true. In fact, if what you say held any truth, I'd also venture we wouldn't be dialoguing about this because this thread probably would never have been created because the issue would have been settled years ago. But as things stand, most are still all over the map with many refusing to even engage with new threads like this popping up routinely and with the vast majority of playback systems still sounding like cheap hi-fi. Which, if anything, would seem to substantiate my position on the matter. Sigh - you are not a very good judge of truth then, because you seem to be stuck on the idea that only very expensive power systems, that really do not do much more than an inexpensive power strip do, are the only answer to the "power problem." A problem, I will add, that largely does not exist. Can an über expensive power unit make your system sound better? Of course. But so can just cleaning the prongs on your electric cable. Often, the improvement is actually comparable. Can, supplying your system with power from a regenerative UPS make an improvement? Sure, and again, of about the same magnitude. Cleaning your cable or using a decent but inexpensive UPS also has the advantage of letting you upgrade your system in places where it counts more too. DACs, Phonos, Amps, Speakers, speaker cables, etc. Where does paying attention to power really matter? Inside your unit mostly. Or outside your unit with devices that supply low voltage power, 5v in USB for example. You are quite welcome to believe what you believe mate, and of course, you should configure your system in a way that pleases you, regardless of what anyone else thinks. But please lay off on claiming a lock on the "truth." You won't like it when unpleasant facts are shoved back at you. -Paul Ralf11 1 Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, GeneZ said: Well then.... Anyone here want to buy this for only $100.00, plus shipping? APC Smart-UPS 750VA LCD 120V Essential brand new. Used for only a few days. I do not believe that particular model is a true UPS, I think it is a line standby model, and that doesn't buy you the good stuff. I believe this little guy does double conversion, making it a true UPS, and also is pretty cheap. About $650 new and $250 used. And remember, the runtime isn't a concern with audio, it is the power filtering. https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/ol1000rtxl2u/ Superior Electric has some nice models, and APC actually does too, but that ain't one of them. The little $100 model will do just as much as this guy. The man you really want to talk to is probably Barrows. He has a lot of experience, and may not agree with me. But that's okay, cause he will have some great insight to offer, and you have to make up your own mind anyway. -Paul Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, Paul R said: I do not believe that particular model is a true UPS, I think it is a line standby model, and that doesn't buy you the good stuff. I believe this little guy does double conversion, making it a true UPS, and also is pretty cheap. About $650 new and $250 used. And remember, the runtime isn't a concern with audio, it is the power filtering. https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/ol1000rtxl2u/ Superior Electric has some nice models, and APC actually does too, but that ain't one of them. The little $100 model will do just as much as this guy. The man you really want to talk to is probably Barrows. He has a lot of experience, and may not agree with me. But that's okay, cause he will have some great insight to offer, and you have to make up your own mind anyway. -Paul The one you linked looks just like what is usually used in a isolated room, as for a business network system. Had one at a hotel telephone room. That fan gets very loud. I would not recommend it for an audio room. Have ever had direct use with one? It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
shtf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Paul R said: Sigh - you are not a very good judge of truth then, because you seem to be stuck on the idea that only very expensive power systems, that really do not do much more than an inexpensive power strip do, are the only answer to the "power problem." A problem, I will add, that largely does not exist. Can an über expensive power unit make your system sound better? Of course. But so can just cleaning the prongs on your electric cable. Often, the improvement is actually comparable. Can, supplying your system with power from a regenerative UPS make an improvement? Sure, and again, of about the same magnitude. Cleaning your cable or using a decent but inexpensive UPS also has the advantage of letting you upgrade your system in places where it counts more too. DACs, Phonos, Amps, Speakers, speaker cables, etc. Where does paying attention to power really matter? Inside your unit mostly. Or outside your unit with devices that supply low voltage power, 5v in USB for example. You are quite welcome to believe what you believe mate, and of course, you should configure your system in a way that pleases you, regardless of what anyone else thinks. But please lay off on claiming a lock on the "truth." You won't like it when unpleasant facts are shoved back at you. -Paul So you compare cleaning your cables "where it really counts" to my claims of superior line conditioners and what I consider one of the biggest musical improvements you or I would ever experience? Clearly one of us is on a different planet. And I'm starting to think it's me. The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, GeneZ said: The one you linked looks just like what is usually used in a isolated room, as for a business network system. Had one at a hotel telephone room. That fan gets very loud. I would not recommend it for an audio room. Have ever had direct use with one? Yes, and they work quite well in a closet or at the electrical panel. That particular model is not all that noisy, but it occasionally ramps up, making it too loud to rack in the open with the audio gear. Of course, I rack it with my server gear, as far away as possible from anyplace I want to actually be. At least for any length of time. Even that is shrinking though, as my physical development equipment needs shrink. i wonder if if a Yeti would work well for you? They are a bit more expensive and have limited runtimes of course. Side benefit is you could run your system off solar. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, shtf said: So you compare cleaning your cables "where it really counts" to my claims of superior line conditioners and what I consider one of the biggest musical improvements you or I would ever experience? Clearly one of us is on a different planet. And I'm starting to think it's me. Well, maybe. Or maybe it is me, or maybe we just are talking past each other. Or maybe you are so bent on telling everyone how much you spent on a hunk of audio gear, you have difficulty communicating in a nice manner with people who do not agree with you. Basically, I do not consider audiophile grade power systems superior to well engineered and far cheaper systems. Just as surely, I do not buy into the “common wisdom” that a UPS hurts the sound of an audio system. I want extraordinary wisdom.. Have you ever cleaned the prongs on your power cables? If not try it and see what happens - you may experience a dramatic improvement. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Paul R said: i wonder if if a Yeti would work well for you? They are a bit more expensive and have limited runtimes of course. Side benefit is you could run your system off solar. Not really.... Recharge From the Wall, Car, or Sun: Easily recharge from an AC outlet in about 18 hours with included charging cable, from a 12V outlet* in about 44 hours, or from a solar panel in up to 6 hours depending on solar conditions and the size of the solar panel*. Works with third-party solar panels, adapters sold separately. Not very practical solution unless I am running a mini amp. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
shtf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul R said: Well, maybe. Or maybe it is me, or maybe we just are talking past each other. Or maybe you are so bent on telling everyone how much you spent on a hunk of audio gear, you have difficulty communicating in a nice manner with people who do not agree with you. Basically, I do not consider audiophile grade power systems superior to well engineered and far cheaper systems. Just as surely, I do not buy into the “common wisdom” that a UPS hurts the sound of an audio system. I want extraordinary wisdom.. Have you ever cleaned the prongs on your power cables? If not try it and see what happens - you may experience a dramatic improvement. Clearly you know not what you speaketh. Who let you in here? Do me a favor and take a video recording using your smart phone of one of your better playback performances and post the link here. And don't worry about the quality cuz it won't matter. With 12,518 posts under your belt I want to demonstrate something. The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, GeneZ said: Not really.... Recharge From the Wall, Car, or Sun: Easily recharge from an AC outlet in about 18 hours with included charging cable, from a 12V outlet* in about 44 hours, or from a solar panel in up to 6 hours depending on solar conditions and the size of the solar panel*. Works with third-party solar panels, adapters sold separately. Not very practical solution unless I am running a mini amp. Just for fun I hooked up a 1400 here, and got an estimated runtime of over 40 hours. ;). It can recharge to a full charge easily in about 4 hours with my panels, on a clear sunny day of course. I do not think it would be practical for a system running a lot, and I also tend to leave everything on most of the time, but it was fun to see. It can run pretty much all the lights in the house for days on end, and the fridge either for a day, or for several days if I I only throw the breaker on for one hour of every 5. In any case, it would easily run a small system. -Paul P.S. And I just realized I could take off into the hills and days of time with music, computers, and a nice midi keyboard.... Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, shtf said: Clearly you know not what you speaketh. Who let you in here? Do me a favor and take a video recording using your smart phone of one of your better playback performances and post the link here. And don't worry about the quality cuz it won't matter. With 12,518 posts under your belt I want to demonstrate something. Yawn - do yourself a favor and grow up some. About the only thing you are demonstrating is an immature mindset. Anyways, my place is a mess right now... have to clean it up before guests who are not good friends get invited in. But it all runs on very clean power. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
shtf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 42 minutes ago, Paul R said: Yawn - do yourself a favor and grow up some. About the only thing you are demonstrating is an immature mindset. Anyways, my place is a mess right now... have to clean it up before guests who are not good friends get invited in. But it all runs on very clean power. About what I expected. I'm well aware of paper tigers. But you don't even have that going for you. daverich4 1 The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
nkbg Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Isotek EVO3 Titan for amplification and Isotek EVO3 Sirius for digital. Adding the Syncro DC blocker cable cleared up the highs further. Highly recommended product rhmmmm 1 Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 hours ago, nkbg said: Isotek EVO3 Titan for amplification and Isotek EVO3 Sirius for digital. Adding the Syncro DC blocker cable cleared up the highs further. Highly recommended product EVO3 Sirius... Interesting perspective. http://www.tonepublications.com/review/isotek-evo-3-sirius/ It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
nkbg Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 The Polaris is another cheaper option but it doesn't have individually filtered outlets which Sirius does to reduce crosstalk between devices. Isotek also states noise reduction numbers for their products. I think Titan is around 80dB and Sirius around 60dB. rhmmmm 1 Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, nkbg said: The Polaris is another cheaper option but it doesn't have individually filtered outlets which Sirius does to reduce crosstalk between devices. Isotek also states noise reduction numbers for their products. I think Titan is around 80dB and Sirius around 60dB. Eliminating that cross talk is what makes a system at its best. Matter of fact? Without it, it could be seen as counterproductive. Might as well plug back into a plain AC outlet strip For, all it takes is one noisy digital component kicking back into the line its noise, and they all become the same. Its not saving money. Its buying a placebo effect. I have experimented with my "Noise Sniffer." It was plugged into an outlet. Noise was measured. Then, plugged in a digital component or PC, and the noise went right up. Unless a device isolates each component from another its not really worth doing much. Its the digital components that seem to be the greatest offenders. Its probably the wrench in the gears of what is referred to as the "digital sound" that some complain about. Digital power needs to be isolated. All components need to be. Then I believe the advantages of digital accuracy can be appreciated. I find digital the most true to real sound of music. Now, if we could only live in a perfect world. fas42 1 It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 don't your digital devices have transformers in them? as for batteries, they are (so far) inconvenient to use/recharge, and you may need a way to power some components with AC Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Ralf11 said: don't your digital devices have transformers in them? as for batteries, they are (so far) inconvenient to use/recharge, and you may need a way to power some components with AC Since we have no clue as to whom you are addressing? I will try to answer: It depends on what you mean by that. Some digital devices have linear power supplies with transformers. Some switching with much smaller transformers. Why the question? It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 At least you admit that noise is there to be attenuated. But, they can attenuate only so much. Its amazing what an excellent AC conditioner can bring about in conjunction with those transformers. They, along with quality power cords, act as an extension to the power supply. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
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