Poll Question: Power Conditioning

[tmtomh]

I can only speak from experience. In my experience, I haven't found power conditioners to impact the sound of my system. However, I have only tried modestly priced powered conditioners.

 

I do, however, live in a dense urban area with dirty power, and I do use a DC blocker for my power amplifier, which has a gigantic toroidal transformer that would periodically emit a soft hum from what I presume is DC in the AC power feed in the local grid. A DC blocker fixed that right up.

 

Interestingly, my disc player - an Oppo BDP-205 - also has a toroidal transformer, but it does not need to be plugged into the DC blocker. I would guess that's because the Oppo's toroidal is smaller than my power amp's, but perhaps the Oppo has some kind of filtering my amp lacks.

 

At any rate, I am a believer in power conditioning, but I think the results are likely highly variable owing to local electricity conditions and variability in the circuitry of one's equipment. So I am skeptical of blanket claims that a particular power upgrade (conditioning, premium power cord, etc) will predictably or reliably change anything in the sound.

[One and a half]

4 hours ago, GeneZ said:

   Eliminating that cross talk is what makes a system at its best.   Matter of fact?   Without it, it could be seen as counterproductive.  Might as well plug back into a plain AC outlet strip  For, all it takes is one noisy digital component kicking back into the line its noise, and they all become the same.  Its not saving money.  Its buying a placebo effect.

 

Eliminating cross talk or conducted noise shared on the same power line is, on paper possible, but in practice another issue.

 

Noise for the upper frequencies can be taken care of by filters such as the Schaffner type. Typical circuit is shown here and its performance graph are are made for compliance issues.

 

The sizing of the filter has to be rated to the current draw, since the inductors (2xL1) are the limitation. From the graph, into a 50 Ohm load (doesn't exist practically, but it's the standard Schaffner and others use), the peak attenuation is at 15 MHz, with the worst attenuation at less than 10kHz. This type of filter is the reflective kind and is common in many equipments. In other words, frequencies in the domain of the filter are reflected back the source. So in some respect, using a filter like this achieves some level of crosstalk reduction. This raises another problem with the audio component, the additional reactance and capacitance in the circuit, typical of most line conditioners fall into where the sound is rough and better off without the filter in the first place. 

 

For frequencies above 50/60 Hz to about 5kHz something, the counter productive harmonics, absorption filters are the best type, the amount of harmonics need to be measured, then a filter designed to be an impedance null for those frequencies. It's like a bucket where unwanted frequencies fall into, but the bucket can get full, saturate and electrically, the filter being of the absorbing kind develops heat. 

 

I found like many others at CA to use a split (balanced) AC power to at least trap unequal harmonics and for RF, the Topaz has natural filtering, although most audio designers worth their salt take care of PCB and avoid propagation of noise to interfere with their own circuitry. Common star grounding is very important, no daisy chaining power strips, another topic.

 

More references:

 

Understanding Electromagnetic Compatibility Standards for Switch-Mode Power Supplies

 

EMC Design Techniques

 

Schaffner data sheet series FN9255

 

FN 9255.pdf

[GeneZ]

15 minutes ago, One and a half said:

 

Eliminating cross talk or conducted noise shared on the same power line is, on paper possible, but in practice another issue.

 

Noise for the upper frequencies can be taken care of by filters such as the Schaffner type. Typical circuit is shown here and its performance graph are are made for compliance issues.

 

The sizing of the filter has to be rated to the current draw, since the inductors (2xL1) are the limitation. From the graph, into a 50 Ohm load (doesn't exist practically, but it's the standard Schaffner and others use), the peak attenuation is at 15 MHz, with the worst attenuation at less than 10kHz. This type of filter is the reflective kind and is common in many equipments. In other words, frequencies in the domain of the filter are reflected back the source. So in some respect, using a filter like this achieves some level of crosstalk reduction. This raises another problem with the audio component, the additional reactance and capacitance in the circuit, typical of most line conditioners fall into where the sound is rough and better off without the filter in the first place. 

 

For frequencies above 50/60 Hz to about 5kHz something, the counter productive harmonics, absorption filters are the best type, the amount of harmonics need to be measured, then a filter designed to be an impedance null for those frequencies. It's like a bucket where unwanted frequencies fall into, but the bucket can get full, saturate and electrically, the filter being of the absorbing kind develops heat. 

 

I found like many others at CA to use a split (balanced) AC power to at least trap unequal harmonics and for RF, the Topaz has natural filtering, although most audio designers worth their salt take care of PCB and avoid propagation of noise to interfere with their own circuitry. Common star grounding is very important, no daisy chaining power strips, another topic.

 

More references:

 

Understanding Electromagnetic Compatibility Standards for Switch-Mode Power Supplies

 

EMC Design Techniques

 

Schaffner data sheet series FN9255

 

FN 9255.pdf 853.92 kB · 0 downloads

  But,  what if it really makes the system sound better without being perfect?

 

Show me one thing in this life that is absolutely perfect?

[fas42]

1 hour ago, tmtomh said:

At any rate, I am a believer in power conditioning, but I think the results are likely highly variable owing to local electricity conditions and variability in the circuitry of one's equipment. So I am skeptical of blanket claims that a particular power upgrade (conditioning, premium power cord, etc) will predictably or reliably change anything in the sound.

 

Yes. Every situation will be unique; there is almost no value in suggesting a generic set of steps - because there is every chance that it will do nothing of value for the particular individual.

 

Which doesn't mean it's not worth trying things. If one doesn't believe in such effects then there's no value in it - otherwise, try simple experiements which cost little time or money to determine if the rig is over sensitive to influences.

 

[GeneZ]

When I had my Furman Elite 15 DMI I never liked the sound of my PC when plugged into its digital outlets.   But, the rest of my equipment liked it fine.   Much to my surprise,  using this for the PC and monitor really improved the sound up a notch. 

Not that expensive either.

 

APC LE1200 Line-R 1200VA Automatic Voltage Regulator

https://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-Automatic-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B00009RA60

[GeneZ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U77pH_nJtvM