Distinctive Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 PS Audio P10 on PowerBase. Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 System so far as per the picture. The furman sequencer provides a way to switch on and off the components, so there's no loud pops at start or end, plus it senses high or low volts. If such a problem existed, it shuts off all the relays until a restart. The audio components therefore don't see the filtering on the Furman. Relays btw are Idec RH4, rated for about 6A inductive loads. The pairing of the isolation transformer to the Equitech is to provide slowing of pulses on the primary of the Equitech. Since much of the asymmetric noise is absorbed by the balanced supply, there's not much need in the way of RLC devices in front of the audio components, so these aren't fitted. The Mac Mini is also on the same supply, it's benign as far as introducing noise to the other components as far as harmonics go. RF noise out of the mini is quite good, the backgrounds are dark, with great low level detail, can't ask for much more. Being totally passive, the reliability versus an inverter output are night and day. There will be comments about earthing, and RCBO, these are all fitted to rules where I live and need to abide by them. All earths are bonded together. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Great thread revival ! Can we also have some European recommendations too ? Also some commentary on dedicated spur, and separate external earth with metal spike in driven into the ground ? A separate metal spike in the ground for a protective earth is often illegal in many countries. The danger is, should a fault current occur, the fault travels to the wrong earth and bypasses the protective devices, so that's not a good thing at all. There is nothing to stop you to put 500 (exaggeration) or more spikes in the ground, and bond them together to form one complete earth. Or sheets of reinforced gal steel bonded together buried in the ground, so long as ONE connection to all the other earth connections in the house are made. I prefer to roll my own, there is a UK manufacturer of power conditioning gear, the prices receive a lot of resistance so to speak. This mob seem a bit more realistic. Dedicated spurs will give you control and protection for your audio components. A spur line on its own will and can be susceptible to conducted noise, so is best treated close the source with an isolation/balanced transformer. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Al Jones Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Stereo: PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator on analog components Power Inspired AG 1500 AC regenerator on digital components Home Theater: PS Audio P300 AC regenerator on source components Accuphase P500 conditioner on projector Related accessories: Entreq grounding boxes PS Audio Noise Harvesters 50 cm outdoor copper spike ground Al J. Modem/router + Keces DC-116 12V LPS - SGC Sonic Transporter + Sonore 12V LPS/Edwards Audio ISO-1 mains isolation transformer - Meicord Opal LAN cables - Aqvox Switch + Sbooster 9V LPS/Uptone LPS-1 - Etalon Isolator - Sonore Signature Rendu Special Edition + Mad Scientist Heretical USB data-only cable - Sonore Ultradigital + Uptone LPS-1 - PS Audio I2S-12 cable - HQ Player - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - iPeng on iPad 2 - MK Sound 300 monitors - Mad Audio Scientist Tungsten Carbide footers - Niels Larsen NLE speaker cables - Walker Audio Reference Plus HIGH Definition Links - 2 MK Sound MX350 subs - Shakti Stones - Herbie's Super Sonic Stabilizers - Herbie's Tenderfeet - Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI sheets - Gutwire Ultimate Ground + Entreq Minimus + Silver Minimus grounding boxes - Symposium Rollerblocks - Symposium Ultra platform - Akiko Tuning Sticks Link to comment
cjf Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Baahh, live life on the wild side and skip the power conditioner! I fell into the trap long ago of needing one and spent thousands of dollars on some of the best ones out there. After comparing the sound of my system with and without the conditioner I ended up selling off the colorful sound the conditioner was adding to my playback chain and now am much happier with the results. Just don't forget to unplug your gear when the weather man predicts lightning storms to roll in My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
Speedskater Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 To 'One and a half' so the Furman Sequencer only provides control functions put does not power any of your components? To repeat and emphasis, all the connections to Mother Earth should be bonded together at one main point and then enter the building service entrance as one conductor. Link to comment
monteverdi Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I found that the power filters I used (or only demoed) for my audio equipment had not a positive effect on sound quality. But I use a Brickwall filter/surge protector for all my computers, printers, chargers etc. and that resulted in less noise in my audio chain. Link to comment
DigiPete Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What power conditioner are you using? None, I have no need. - I live in Europe where power is stable and relatively clean. - I exclusively use professional equipment that naturally has all needed power filtering. I did work for APC as a Technology Strategist, and yes we made tons of money off Americans who often lives with a power quality usually only found in poor undeveloped countries. Promise Pegasus2 R6 12TB -> Thunderbolt2 -> MacBook Pro M1 Pro -> Motu 8D -> AES/EBU -> Main: Genelec 5 x 8260A + 2 x 8250 + 2 x 8330 + 7271A sub Boat: Genelec 8010 + 5040 sub Hifiman Sundara, Sennheiser PXC 550 II Blog: “Confessions of a DigiPhile” Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 To 'One and a half' so the Furman Sequencer only provides control functions put does not power any of your components? Yes, the Furman provides on/off control via the relays only. The Furman has over and undervoltage protection, so the transformer ahead of it will reflect those variations and the protection system will switch off the output, relays in this case. I have tried a Monster Power Center (230V version) ahead of the Equitech, instead of the iso transformer. There was a reaction between the non linear pulses drawn by the load and the caps/filters in the Monster, and the music sounded very thin. The current pulses amplified, perhaps there was some ghastly resonance going on, but not enough to activate the protection system. Reinstating the iso transformer removed the problem of the higher peaks and the music's fullness returned. Using the same Monster on the output of the Equitech was not successful, the device was expecting an earthed neutral, didn't find one, and either tripped right away or waited for several hours, then tripped. I use the Monster now to protect servers, printers, IT type loads on the regular TN system. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What power conditioner are you using?None, I have no need. - I live in Europe where power is stable and relatively clean. - I exclusively use professional equipment that naturally has all needed power filtering. I did work for APC as a Technology Strategist, and yes we made tons of money off Americans who often lives with a power quality usually only found in poor undeveloped countries. Wow. You have measured the AC line, and no harmonics or common mode noise enters the internal DC circuits or are coupled to the output? AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Al Jones Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 - I live in Europe where power is stable and relatively clean. Stable and relatively clean? Here in Denmark, 230V is standard, but variations from 207 - 244V are officially considered "satisfactory". I use AC regenerators to ensure constant 230V. Right now, early on a Saturday afternoon, my Power Plant Premiere measures 2.6% THD in. After AC regeneration, THD on the output drops to 0.6%. Al J. Modem/router + Keces DC-116 12V LPS - SGC Sonic Transporter + Sonore 12V LPS/Edwards Audio ISO-1 mains isolation transformer - Meicord Opal LAN cables - Aqvox Switch + Sbooster 9V LPS/Uptone LPS-1 - Etalon Isolator - Sonore Signature Rendu Special Edition + Mad Scientist Heretical USB data-only cable - Sonore Ultradigital + Uptone LPS-1 - PS Audio I2S-12 cable - HQ Player - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - iPeng on iPad 2 - MK Sound 300 monitors - Mad Audio Scientist Tungsten Carbide footers - Niels Larsen NLE speaker cables - Walker Audio Reference Plus HIGH Definition Links - 2 MK Sound MX350 subs - Shakti Stones - Herbie's Super Sonic Stabilizers - Herbie's Tenderfeet - Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI sheets - Gutwire Ultimate Ground + Entreq Minimus + Silver Minimus grounding boxes - Symposium Rollerblocks - Symposium Ultra platform - Akiko Tuning Sticks Link to comment
EuroDriver Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 My DAC and power amp have no earth connection, so I am thinking of grounding both of the chassis to a true earth any thoughts ? Sound Test, Monaco Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland e-mail [email protected] Link to comment
GeneZ Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Not considered possibly to be super audiophile... But, the audio benefit was obvious and pleasing. Got rid of my APC Back-UPS for my PC. APC Back-UPS are known to produce a ragged, pseudo - sine wave. My solution was quite cheap and simple. I now use in its place an APC Line-R 1200VA Line Conditioner/Voltage Regulator. I got interested the 1200VA when I read a review by someone who measured it. He saw that it produces a clean sine wave. Needless to say, I really like the improvement in sound it gives. Why not try it? Still holding on to my XP PC for another week. MY XP PC is about to be replaced with a fanless PC having a SSD. PC is designed for good audio. Having very little internal electronic noise compared to a PC with fans and a spinning hard drive. And, no audible noise coming from the box. May go to an audiophile line conditioner later down the road with the new PC. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 My DAC and power amp have no earth connection, so I am thinking of grounding both of the chassis to a true earth any thoughts ? No benefit. You would need to analyse the interior circuits carefully, and you could violate the manufacturer's certification for connected to the AC supply. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Stable and relatively clean? Here in Denmark, 230V is standard, but variations from 207 - 244V are officially considered "satisfactory". I use AC regenerators to ensure constant 230V. Right now, early on a Saturday afternoon, my Power Plant Premiere measures 2.6% THD in. After AC regeneration, THD on the output drops to 0.6%. I have seen the 2.6% or thereabouts THD in quoted a few times by people independently. This I believe is the distortion generated by the Power Plant itself. It's not much a big deal, since the output is cleaned up. Would be interesting to see a fourier of that distortion. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Boris75 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 What power conditioner are you using? I've never had much success with power conditioning. However, now that I'm using a computer frond end, the switching power supply noise (computer and external hard drive) has me wondering and willing to try some things out again. I am not using power conditioning, and am not thinking of doing it, but I would like to find a power plug that filters electrical noise and protects against power surges. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 series surge protection + RF filter: Line Conditioners | Brick Wall specifically, this: Eight-Outlet Audio Surge Protector | Brick Wall This looks like what I have been after for a long time. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be available for European-standard power supply (50Hz 220V). Link to comment
Boris75 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Baahh, live life on the wild side and skip the power conditioner! I fell into the trap long ago of needing one and spent thousands of dollars on some of the best ones out there. After comparing the sound of my system with and without the conditioner I ended up selling off the colorful sound the conditioner was adding to my playback chain and now am much happier with the results. Just don't forget to unplug your gear when the weather man predicts lightning storms to roll in Thanks for sharing your very interesting, money-saving experience. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I have seen the 2.6% or thereabouts THD in quoted a few times by people independently. This I believe is the distortion generated by the Power Plant itself. It's not much a big deal, since the output is cleaned up. Would be interesting to see a fourier of that distortion. It is interesting to learn that the Power Plant is good at cleaning the electrical noise it generates itself. Sounds like worth buying Link to comment
Speedskater Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I am not using power conditioning, and am not thinking of doing it, but I would like to find a power plug that filters electrical noise and protects against power surges. To really filter the interference frequencies of interest it takes a big box. Bigger than a microwave box. Link to comment
gmgraves Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What power conditioner are you using? None, I have no need. - I live in Europe where power is stable and relatively clean. - I exclusively use professional equipment that naturally has all needed power filtering. I did work for APC as a Technology Strategist, and yes we made tons of money off Americans who often lives with a power quality usually only found in poor undeveloped countries. Well, at the risk of seeming somewhat jingoistic, I will say that if the US "lives with a power quality usually only found in poor undeveloped countries." (which I don't believe), then it's only because our infrastructure wasn't completely destroyed by bombs about 70 years ago, and didn't have to be completely rebuilt from scratch in the post-war years. I guess we Americans were so busy helping you Europeans rebuild after the war via the Marshall Plan that we didn't have the time to update our own. But, for my own edification, are you saying that your 50 Hz (?!!) 220 Volt mains grid is so good and so quiet that noise generated by refrigerators, air conditioners, computers, vacuum cleaners, and other appliances doesn't get into your mains supply? Permit me to doubt.... I'm not going to even bring-up that flimsy two-prong mains connector that most mainland European countries use. In fact, the only European country (of which I'm aware) that has a truly adequate mains plug is Great Britain (and that one is overkill for a lot of applications, but better overkill than underkill in this case) George Link to comment
gmgraves Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 To really filter the interference frequencies of interest it takes a big box. Bigger than a microwave box. Nah, just a huge laboratory-grade isolation transformer. George Link to comment
Termiitti Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Torus Power AVR16,Christmas wish list... JRiver>>Chord Sarum USB>>Berkeley Audio Alpha USB>>Chord Indigo+ BNC-BNC>>Naim DAC+XPS2>>Chord Indigo+ RCA-RCA>>ASR Emitter II Exclusive Version Blue/Accu/Options>>Chord Signature>>B&W 800D2 Chord Power Chords-Furutech e-TP60-Solidtech ROS4 Link to comment
tranz Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I am not using power conditioning, and am not thinking of doing it, but I would like to find a power plug that filters electrical noise and protects against power surges. Hi Boris75, These were as close and as cheap an option I could find that do actually work. The filters have to be housed somewhere, but these boxes are small and thin. 1. Furman AC-215a at $120 with 2 outlets 2. APC C-2 at $60 with 2 outlets Cheers Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well, at the risk of seeming somewhat jingoistic, I will say that if the US "lives with a power quality usually only found in poor undeveloped countries." (which I don't believe), then it's only because our infrastructure wasn't completely destroyed by bombs about 70 years ago, and didn't have to be completely rebuilt from scratch in the post-war years. I guess we Americans were so busy helping you Europeans rebuild after the war via the Marshall Plan that we didn't have the time to update our own. But, for my own edification, are you saying that your 50 Hz (?!!) 220 Volt mains grid is so good and so quiet that noise generated by refrigerators, air conditioners, computers, vacuum cleaners, and other appliances doesn't get into your mains supply? Permit me to doubt.... I'm not going to even bring-up that flimsy two-prong mains connector that most mainland European countries use. In fact, the only European country (of which I'm aware) that has a truly adequate mains plug is Great Britain (and that one is overkill for a lot of applications, but better overkill than underkill in this case) Our infrastructure was destroyed by the same short-sightedness that dismantled the California public school system. How long have you lived in California? Long enough to remember the Enron/brown-outs? Link to comment
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