POLL: What USB cable are you using?

[cyclo]

I use a LaCie USB cable from a Porsche external drive. It's pretty short at about 30 cm. I do not plan on "upgrading".

 

[Amused]

to the Nordost Blue Heaven USB. Now my office system is cabled with a single product line. After logging close to 120 hours, I've asked myself, is there an audible improvement? An honest answer would be, I believe so. I thought the WireWorld design, implemented in my older Starlight cable offered the best single cable design, separating the power and signal lines as much as possible in a flat format. But after giving this a go, I'd be interested in comparing their design philosophies.

 

[Paul R]

The difference between the way your wife hears the music, and the way you hear the music, are all in your head.

 

Absolutely! I never thought otherwise.

 

And I agree 100% with the rest of your post too. If you think this clearly after a rough week, I sure don't want to "match swords" with you when you are rested and at the top of your form.

 

Hope you got some decent rest and have a better week this week.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

I did get lots of sleep. It was needed too. Anyway, re-reading my post makes me cringe a little. Oh well.

 

Happy Listening!

 

[crisnee]

No, we don't always agree, on changes, not at all. We do work it out though, and if we don't wind up agreeing on a change, the change is undone.

 

How do you work it out? Do you try to get your wife to hear what you hear, etc.? Are there other factors involved? Do you ever wonder whether one of you is deficient?

 

If my questions are getting tiresome, please ignore me. I'm just very curious about your situation which is unique, in my experience. I suppose it's just part of your life, so you just live it. But if one investigated it in a scientific manner, it might reveal some interesting tidbits. I'm not suggesting you investigate, it's just my way of saying how interesting it seems from an outside point of view.

 

-Chris

 

[Paul R]

Hey Chris -

 

The simple answer is, we talk.

 

Karen is my best friend, and the person in the world I most enjoy spending time with.

 

Learning how to talk to each other, as well as listen to each other, was kind of required. It hurts when she doesn't listen to me, and vice versa. We try to avoid hurting each other.

 

-Paul

 

[crisnee]

Just to add a little info re the Pangea USB cable.

 

I recently ordered one and it was packaged well, in it's own box within a packing box. I mention this because, I think it was Paul, got one that was very poorly packaged and he was a bit upset by the fact--as would I have been.

 

Someone else mentioned that they thought it was a cheap "pretend" high end cable. For him/her and any other person who feels the same here's some info from the box. I paraphrase.

 

Designed by Jay Victor holder of about 40 patents for cable stuff. Before founding Orbital Development, he was new products development manager for the most famous cable co. in the country. Pangea is distributed by www.wsdistributing.com

 

There's more detail. None of this means anything to me but hey....

 

By the way, I wouldn't have ordered this cable, had I read the negative stuff here first, so I thought I'd just fair it up a bit.

 

I haven't listened to the cable (actually I did, but it was exhausted from the trip and thus silent in sleep) and don't plan to do a critical evaluation. I just wanted to own one very well made USB cable with solid connectors that made a tight connection, and this was the least expensive one I could find.

 

-Chris

 

[Talos2000]

I use a Nordost Blue Heaven.

 

[Christopher]

After two weeks of listening, I’ve decided the Pangea USB-AG cable is not a good match for my system.

 

After some initial break-in, there was something I liked about the Pangea USB-AG cable. Highs were definitely brighter. Certain elements of music were more exciting and I thought it was more revealing. Cymbals had an extra sizzle...vocals and horns seemed to deliver more on the top end...bass didn’t seem to suffer with any obvious loss or exaggeration.

 

However, after a lot of listening, I’ve decided that the exciting characteristics were ultimately un-natural and fatiguing for me.

 

I’ve swapped-out the Pangea for a much less expensive cable and prefer the results. In its place is a NuForce Impulse USB cable.

 

This is only my experience and others may have different results.

 

Many have speculated about the concept of system dependent cables and hardware. I’m open to the idea that what works for one or many may not work for others. As one CA member put it, “everything matters.”

 

If you’re interested, I found this piece to be an interesting read called “Complementary Colorations.”

http://www.bearlabsusa.com/NEXT/COLORATIONS.html

 

I have no affiliation with the author or products...just felt it was an interesting read. It could help explain why the same product may vary in different systems?

 

Paul, if you’re reading this, I’m with you...the Pangea USB-AG cable didn’t work for me either...you arrived at this conclusion a lot faster than me! Hope all is well.

 

Best regards,

Chris

 

 

 

[bsn]

1 Analysis Plus.

1 Kimber Silver Plated Copper with ferrites removed.

1 Belkin.

 

[jacquesr]

Fantastic.

 

[pauljvl]

I find the best overall to be the Wireworld Starlight Platinum

it has great extension and the midbass is fleshed out and warg sounding , a bit more so then th Audioquest Diamond , Some sysytems may want a little leaner where the diamond may be almost as good in resolution but a but more neutral.

 

[wookie]

There is a strong undercurrent of skepticism within this thread; until last night, I counted myself a part of it. And then I attended "Music Matters" in Sacramento yesterday, which featured Chris among others, including an AudioQuest rep. who performed a well-controlled, no smoke and mirrors demo starting with a 2$ printer cable and working up the AQ product line. Wow, the differences were not subtle!

 

So while I now have to decide which cable to buy, I am definitely committing to upgrading my Kimber USB. Now, here's another question for all the experts and wannabees on CA- how much difference will USB cable selection make for use between computer and a storage device?? Bring it on. The gentleman from AQ thinks it matters just as much as between computer and dac. I cringe at the thought of buying TWO expensive pieces of silver.

David

 

[wdomeika]

My completely uniformed position is that the firewire interconnect between my storage device and mac mini won't matter if it's solid silver or plutonium infused super-metal...

 

It's enough to fret about the quality of the USB connection to my DAC.

 

That's my position and I'm sticking to it.

 

...for now.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

 

ps I have a Wireworld Silver Starlight USB between my mac mini and DAC

 

[wookie]

Thanks Bill,

I sure hope you're right. I suppose I'll have to test it at some point, hoping that even a kryptonite product won't make a difference. As for computer to dac, I suppose I'll just do an "eenie meenie ..." among the consensus top contenders, including ww, and just pick one. And I naively thought that going the computer server route would save me money on cables! Best,

David

 

[Talos2000]

You gotta be skeptical. But I have heard stranger things...

 

Bear in mind that the implication of your comment is that the storage device is connected to the computer via a USB connection. Aside from whether or not that is a desirable architecture, you need to be aware of how your computer manages multiple USB connections. Are they both connected through a USB hub (implemented on the motherboard) to a single physical USB port? If so, that by itself may compromise the sound.

 

I think you can read more about that on another thread somewhere on CA. It might have been the one about the C.A.P.S. server?....

 

[Panelhead]

The six inch USB I use between the Mini and Mini Max drive cost me 329. But if someone would lend a silver USB cable I will try it.

Did try a Coax with silver plated conductor and shielding. I do THINK it sounds better than the Canare LS-CFB5 I have been using. May be something to using silver was digital cables.

 

 

George

 

[plakey]

Locus Design Polestar for me.

 

 

[KDinsmore]

Cardas Clear.

 

[barrows]

Silver plated conductors are commonly used for higher bandwidth cable designs. High frequency signals travel almost entirely on the surface of the conductor (google: electrical conductor skin depths for details).

A copper wire will eventually oxidise on its surface (with the exception of sealed litz designs, which are also used for high bandwidth signals) and copper oxides are poor conductors. So copper wire gets plated with silver, which does not oxidise as easily, and if it does, silver oxides are still good conductors. Additionally, since the high frequency signal travels primarily on the surface of the conductor, in a silver plated cable, the signal will be travelling primarily through the silver. Silver, having lower resistance than copper, will have lower losses and higher "speed". Higher speed means improved bandwidth, and better edge definition of the (analog) signal.

My suspicion is that the higher speed of transmission the better for any cable carrying digital information (which is actually just an analog waveform representing digital information).

Perhaps the very best conductor for high speed signals would be a pure silver tubular conductor, perhaps with a Nordost style FEP monofilament wrap on the outside, creating a conductor with lots of surface area, and an air dialectric inside and out, while still being damped from vibrating. Keep in mind I am still referring a small diameter tube: ~24 AWG dimensionally.

 

[losingmyreligion]

 

"The gentleman from AQ thinks it matters just as much as between computer and dac."

 

If it does, there's an issue (IMO) with the system / environment that should be resolved, and likely much less expensively than with expensive cables. Remember this maxim - when all you have is a hammer, everything tends to look like a nail.

 

Showing that digital cables can sound different is one thing, assuming that expensive USB cables are "required", or even "cost efficent", solutions is a huge leap of faith. PT Barnum had something relevant to say about this, I think.

 

Did the "gentleman" actually demonstrate only changing the cable between computer and hard drive to noticeable effect?

 

Was the "gentlemen's" system designed to highlight differences between cables or minimize them? I'll guess the former - as the wine guys like to say "buy over apples, sell over cheese".

 

Was the venue (and system setup) for the demonstration more or less likely to have extraneous RFI/EMI, or AC circuit noise (including grounding issues) than a typical home environment? I.e., any industrial equipment in operation in the near vicinity?

 

There are just a few of the questions I would ask about the demonstration.

 

 

Note: If your clock in in the computer, i.e. Adaptive USB, coax S/PDIF & AES/EBU interfaces, then it is possible that the cable connecting the hard drive could potentially impact the sound, but this will have nothing to do with whether the cable is silver, etc. It would be because the cable is piping noisy AC from the hard drive and/or it's SMPS on to the computer and affecting the clock's performance (i.e. increasing jitter).

 

The best way to alleviate this is to use clean power for any external hard drive (e.g. cheap linear PS from Jameco or similar), and secondly, if possible, sever the power leg connection between the hard drive and the computer. With Firewire 400 cables, disrupting the power leg is easier than with USB, and has been recommended here on CA for over two years. In any event, you should be using Firewire (or eSata, or Thunderbolt, if early indications are accurate) rather than USB for hard drive connections - I never use USB connection for hard drive when I expect best sonic performance, even with my Firewire DAC.

 

 

respectfully,

clay

 

[Jud]

Perhaps the very best conductor for high speed signals would be a pure silver tubular conductor, perhaps with a Nordost style FEP monofilament wrap on the outside, creating a conductor with lots of surface area, and an air dialectric inside and out

 

Have a look at the Omega Mikro site, and you'll see your "very best conductor," though the thin walled tube has been rolled out into an extremely thin silver plated copper flat conductor.

 

Also cryo treated, which the late Locus Designs fellow seemed to think was helpful.

 

[plakey]

 

off topic... how is the Schiit Bifrost?

 

 

 

[orgel]

losingmyreligion wrote:

 

"In any event, you should be using Firewire (or eSata, or Thunderbolt, if early indications are accurate) rather than USB for hard drive connections - I never use USB connection for hard drive when I expect best sonic performance, even with my Firewire DAC."

 

Clay, when you're using both a FireWire HD and a FireWire DAC, do you have them daisy-chained on the same FireWire port? Do you think order on the chain matters?

 

I want to give this arrangement a try (vs DAC on FireWire, HD on USB) when my Mytek DAC arrives. I can't quite figure which order on the chain would be best. (There's only one FW port on my mini.) Thoughts?

 

(Sorry if this is OT, but in my mind, this is a burning issue.)

 

(Doh. Never mind. There's only on FW port on the Mytek, so that pretty much determines the order on the chain.)

 

--David

 

[4est]

Here with my Weiss DAC, the FW cable chain did not make a difference in SQ. Both my DAC and drive had two ports, and I have used it both ways. FW seems to be less picky IME.