New Network Streamers vs Old Standbys from SoTM and Sonore, etc?

[creativepart]

For 5-years or so I've been using a SoTM SMS200 network streamer (both non- Ultra and then Ultra) with a SoTM power supply. These have worked well and never really given me any issues. I know that also many here use Sonore's network streamers in the same way. For most of the past decade these have been great choices for networked streaming to your ever changing and improving DAC in your system.

 

These devices were always more highly sonically regarded then Node streamers, Pi Streamers and similar less expensive devices. At least, in my book they have been. But now there's all manner of new network streamers and networked DACs, too.

 

So, how does a SMS200 Ultra Neo or Rendu compare to the new kids on the block like the Eversolo DMP-A6? Or the Innos Pulse Mini. Or the WiiM Pro or even the Gustard R26/A26 DAC with built in streamers??? I'm sure I'm leaving out a zillion other streamers in the $800 to $1,500 price range, too.

 

I know there are better network streamers in the $3,000 to $6,000 and up range but what about these new upstarts? Good, better, best? In other worlds are the oldies still goodies or just also rans?

 

PS. Don't even think about saying "bits is bits" and the network device means nothing in the SQ of your system.

 

 

[BCRich]

Hi,

Just to clarify; neither the EtherRegen or ISORegen are streamers. The EtherRegen is a Network Switch that will work wonders on your network; unfortunately only available second hand. ER2 is on the horizon. The ISORegen is a USB Reclocker; also no longer available.  Personally I am using a Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical with a EtherRegen and Optical Module Deluxe along side a custom built server.. A hefty investment but I am quite happy with it. 

Good luck in your search. Enjoy the Music!

Mike

[creativepart]

5 minutes ago, BCRich said:

 Personally I am using a Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical with a EtherRegen and Optical Module Deluxe along side a custom built server.

D'oh! the Sonore Rendu is what I was thinking of but couldn't come up with the name.

 

Sorry. I may edit the post if I still can. My brain fade.

 

I did edit the post for the proper device brands/names - thank you for your post.

[davide256]

6 hours ago, creativepart said:

For 5-years or so I've been using a SoTM SMS200 network streamer (both non- Ultra and then Ultra) with a SoTM power supply. These have worked well and never really given me any issues. I know that also many here use Sonore's network streamers in the same way. For most of the past decade these have been great choices for networked streaming to your ever changing and improving DAC in your system.

 

These devices were always more highly sonically regarded then Node streamers, Pi Streamers and similar less expensive devices. At least, in my book they have been. But now there's all manner of new network streamers and networked DACs, too.

 

So, how does a SMS200 Ultra Neo or Rendu compare to the new kids on the block like the Eversolo DMP-A6? Or the Innos Pulse Mini. Or the WiiM Pro or even the Gustard R26/A26 DAC with built in streamers??? I'm sure I'm leaving out a zillion other streamers in the $800 to $1,500 price range, too.

 

I know there are better network streamers in the $3,000 to $6,000 and up range but what about these new upstarts? Good, better, best? In other worlds are the oldies still goodies or just also rans?

 

PS. Don't even think about saying "bits is bits" and the network device means nothing in the SQ of your system.

 

 

The Gustard R26 has a network board for endpoint use, reviews have been lukewarm vs a separate endpoint feeding the R26 directly. @botrytis has one,

perhaps he can opine on his experience with the built in board?

 

In your shoes though, if you still have a Chord Qutest, that positions you to trial HQP up-sampling to 706/768/32 using a PC for HQPe server.

Basically a way to do some of the same things as buying an M Scalar for your Chord DAC at far less cost.  HQP embedded requires a bit of linux knowledge

to use it as a library server but works fine if fed music via UPNP  from another source. You can also purchase a windows version version of HQP

 

A thread you may find interesting (if long), an alternative path where files are up-sampled in advance. Eliminates the need for the on the fly conversion

CPU power that HQP needs but consumes drastically more bandwidth for streaming and file HD space.

 

 

 

[botrytis]

I don't know about endpoint, since I just use as a DAC, off of a R9 4900H mini PC.

[AudioDoctor]

I've tried various other solutions through the years and always come back to the Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical as my network endpoint for HQPlayer.  As far as I am concerned, it's the king until something comes along and unseats it.

[creativepart]

4 hours ago, davide256 said:

In your shoes though, if you still have a Chord Qutest, that positions you to trial HQP up-sampling to 706/768/32 using a PC for HQPe server.

 

Yes, thanks. I’ve used HQP for at least two years now. The SoTM comes with a built in NAA for HQP.

 

I’m not unhappy with the SMS200 Ultra. It’s just been in my system for a number of years so it’s good to investigate newer gear to see if things have changed.

[audiobomber]

The sMS-200 Ultra is a great renderer and I believe competitive with anything in its price range. I would suggest network improvements would be a better investment than a new renderer. From the gear listed in your profile, it doesn't appear you use a network switch? I would suggest adding a switch that accommodates an SFP and fiber cable, LHY SW-10, soon to be released etherREGEN v2, SOtM sNH-10G, etc. 

[davide256]

11 hours ago, creativepart said:

Yes, thanks. I’ve used HQP for at least two years now. The SoTM comes with a built in NAA for HQP.

 

I’m not unhappy with the SMS200 Ultra. It’s just been in my system for a number of years so it’s good to investigate newer gear to see if things have changed.

I am curious. What were your results going directly from HQP server to Qutest? I was running NAA on an UP Atom PC but found that dulled transients compared to going direct from i3/i5 HQP server.

[creativepart]

1 minute ago, davide256 said:

I am curious. What were your results going directly from HQP server to Qutest? I was running NAA on an UP Atom PC but found that dulled transients compared to going direct from i3/i5 HQP server.

I run HQP from within Roon and I'm on an M1 iMac and I have tested running directly into the Qutest via Roon - but find that using the SoTM to be better.

 

I have no desire to change my system UNLESS, some of the newer streamers in the $1000 price range have taken a leap forward. Which is why I'm asking this question.

 

It seems no one has tried a Eversolo DMP-A6 or Innos Pulse Mini to compare them with the older SoTM or Sonore devices.

[audiobomber]

Have you kept up with the Eunhasu firmware updates? There have been a couple that provided sonically significant improvements.

[stefano_mbp]

10 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

There have been a couple that provided sonically significant improvements.

The most relevant one is the last one which brought cpu latency tuning, big change!

 

Version : V0.5.31
  - Date : 12-12-2022
  - Apply CPU latency tuning for upgrading performance and sound quality
  - Add nqptp service to support airplay2
  - Add NTP client service
  - Change LMS internal buffer to output buffer and add stream buffer settings
  - Fixed up beta package installation bug
  - Fixed up wrong text in GUI page

[creativepart]

I'm fully up to date with 5.31. And generally keep up at all times.

 

Everyone keeps thinking I'm trying to fix a problem, which I appreciate the comments, but I'm not trying to fix anything. My SoTM equipment is almost 5-years old. That's an eternity in digital equipment years. So, all I'm wondering is if the "new things" introduced in the past year provide anything better than this old equipment.

 

I got my first "audio" system in 1967, I've had lots of things over those 50 plus years and every 5 to 10 years I change things out. It's the only way to learn what you like and what works.

[zoltan]

I've had a SOtM SMS-200 ultra for 6 years. Upgraded to SE and recently NEO.  Runs on an Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply (better than the SPS-500 in my opinion, which I also have). The SMS-200 ultra neo is followed by a tx-USB ultra powered by the other DC output from the JS-2. Both units and externally clocked by Mutec REF10. All that is followed by Denafrips Gaia DDC and then the DAC. I use HQ Player NAA in the SOtM.

I have had little A/B comparison, only a Lumin U1 mini with Plixir LPS and an Auralic Aries G2, both just steamer transports - no DAC, same as the SOtM.

The Lumin sounds similar, a little brighter, with slightly worse imaging. I prefer the SOtM. The Auralic sounds more relaxed, 'organic' with sweeter voices and generally warmer. All details are there but they are not as 'forward' as with the SOtM. The SOtM has a more defined lower/sub-bass. Depending on the music genre one may be preferred to the other. All in all, I think I prefer the Auralic but the new cost is over 4000 euros and the latest Aries 2.2 and 3.0 will cost considerably more. 

All those streamers that @creativepart listed have a DAC inside, so totally different from the SOtM and cannot be compared really. You need to look at streamer transports that have no built-in DAC to compare apples to apples, such as Holo Audio Red, Silent Angel Munich M1T, etc. Unfortunately, I haven't had access to any such 1000-1500 euro/dollar player yet to compare. 

[creativepart]

Yeah, I'm pretty much ignoring the DACs in the units I mentioned. There are other streamers without DACs but many (most?) are in the $4k and up price range.

 

The Roon Nucleus units don't have dacs, but they have Roon servers, so they are not pure streamers.

 

I was always interested in the Auralic streamers, but their lowest cost streamer costs double the SoTM unit at over $3K now for the G1.1.

 

I'm tilting at windmills it seems. Never hurts to check.

[davide256]

The one thing I'm itching to try is a good 1 bit DSD DAC with HQPlayer as thats what Miska is focused on in his development. As I understand it Chord DACs

convert DSD to PCM with the exception of the Chord Dave

 

 

 

 

[audiobomber]

19 hours ago, creativepart said:

Everyone keeps thinking I'm trying to fix a problem, which I appreciate the comments, but I'm not trying to fix anything. My SoTM equipment is almost 5-years old. That's an eternity in digital equipment years. So, all I'm wondering is if the "new things" introduced in the past year provide anything better than this old equipment.

I tried to make the point that your Ultra is older, but it has been kept up to date with firmware updates. I think replacing it will not get you an improvement unless you spend a lot more. There hasn't been any great advance in music renderer hardware as far as I can tell, it's just that more have players entered the market. SOtM is still a strong player in this market. 

 

There are definitely things you could do to improve the sound, e.g. audiophile switch, fiber conversion, or USB treatments, that I believe will give you more than a new renderer. 

[creativepart]

33 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

There are definitely things you could do to improve the sound, e.g. audiophile switch, fiber conversion, or USB treatments, that I believe will give you more than a new renderer. 

Yes, I heard you, I know you are correct, thank you. I was just hoping some of the newer gear had taken a leap ahead of the "older gear"

 

I have pulled back on streaming for the past couple of months. I was doing 90% of my listening via Qobuz but now it's probably only 30% of my listening. After getting the Audiolab CDT6000 cd transport I've really enjoyed listening to CDs more than streaming.

 

I do plan on getting a new DAC - perhaps very soon. I plan to move to an R2R Dac to give that tech a listen. I tend to keep my old stuff around for a few months after getting new gear. So I can go back and compare. I like to hedge my bets.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

@creativepart You can rip your CDs to a PC or NAS and stream those over your network to an endpoint as well. Streaming isn't just for Qobuz and the like.

[creativepart]

25 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

@creativepart You can rip your CDs to a PC or NAS and stream those over your network to an endpoint as well. Streaming isn't just for Qobuz and the like.

Long ago (10 years ago??), I ripped my 1200+ CDs to a hard disc in FLAC format. I can and sometimes do play these files with my Roon library or even directly from the file on the disc. I have a number of copies of all the files in multiple locations.

 

It took a long while to make all those rips and as I did it I put the CDs in purpose made boxes in alpha order. It's those boxes that I've searched through to cull down to the 200 -300 CDs I'm playing in my CD Transport now. Unfortunately I sold about 400 of the CDs off and on over the years. I truly expected to sell them all someday.

 

Now however, I'm enjoying the CDs better than the file playback. It's quite surprising what a CD can sound like via a good transport and a good DAC. If you haven't tried it, you should.

[AudioDoctor]

3 hours ago, creativepart said:

Long ago (10 years ago??), I ripped my 1200+ CDs to a hard disc in FLAC format. I can and sometimes do play these files with my Roon library or even directly from the file on the disc. I have a number of copies of all the files in multiple locations.

 

It took a long while to make all those rips and as I did it I put the CDs in purpose made boxes in alpha order. It's those boxes that I've searched through to cull down to the 200 -300 CDs I'm playing in my CD Transport now. Unfortunately I sold about 400 of the CDs off and on over the years. I truly expected to sell them all someday.

 

Now however, I'm enjoying the CDs better than the file playback. It's quite surprising what a CD can sound like via a good transport and a good DAC. If you haven't tried it, you should.

 

Nah, I love the convenience of having my music accessible on the network, browseable from my iPad, and playable to multiple locations in the house. I have no problems with the quality of playback either. I have also invested quite a bit into hardware to facilitate this as best as possible. I can't imagine going back to playing a CD in a player.

[Guest]

It has been a joyous journey with my beloved Sonore UltraRendu since 2017. Back then, I tried various DLNA and MPD apps, but Roon quickly stole my heart and has remained my top pick to this very day. Its user interface remains unparalleled in delivering pure audio bliss, making the whole experience an absolute delight.

As I ventured into the world of digital audio, bidding farewell to the grey tonality of my Apple MacBook Pro, the ultraRendu opened up new dimensions of musical ecstasy. With the iconic Neil Young "Rockin' in the Free World," I discovered an extra layer of intra-layer spaciousness that immersed me entirely in the soul of the music. Gone were the tense-nervous-headaches I might have faced with Dinosaur Jr's "The Wagon"; the ultraRendu handled it all with finesse.

Turning my attention to a timeless gem from the past, Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds' "Idiot Prayer" from 1997 mesmerized me. The collaboration showcased the sheer brilliance of all The Bad Seeds, harking back to Nick Cave's signature '80s style. The track's bone-dry baritone vocals and Blixa's twanging echoey guitar strings painted a vivid dreamscape that whisked me away to another world. This modern masterpiece not only enriches any audio showcase but also captivates the hearts of all music enthusiasts.

As a fervent digital audio enthusiast, let me emphasize the value of smart budgeting. No need to splurge entirely on a DAC, assuming a regular Mac or PC will suffice. Trust me, it won't even come close to the sheer mind-blowing performance of the ultraRendu. This exceptional device is a must-have for any serious audiophile, seeking unparalleled digital audio bliss. Say farewell to mediocrity and embrace a future of sonic excellence with the extraordinary ultraRendu!

[The Computer Audiophile]

59 minutes ago, JMcG said:

It has been a joyous journey with my beloved Sonore UltraRendu since 2017. Back then, I tried various DLNA and MPD apps, but Roon quickly stole my heart and has remained my top pick to this very day. Its user interface remains unparalleled in delivering pure audio bliss, making the whole experience an absolute delight.

As I ventured into the world of digital audio, bidding farewell to the grey tonality of my Apple MacBook Pro, the ultraRendu opened up new dimensions of musical ecstasy. With the iconic Neil Young "Rockin' in the Free World," I discovered an extra layer of intra-layer spaciousness that immersed me entirely in the soul of the music. Gone were the tense-nervous-headaches I might have faced with Dinosaur Jr's "The Wagon"; the ultraRendu handled it all with finesse.

Turning my attention to a timeless gem from the past, Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds' "Idiot Prayer" from 1997 mesmerized me. The collaboration showcased the sheer brilliance of all The Bad Seeds, harking back to Nick Cave's signature '80s style. The track's bone-dry baritone vocals and Blixa's twanging echoey guitar strings painted a vivid dreamscape that whisked me away to another world. This modern masterpiece not only enriches any audio showcase but also captivates the hearts of all music enthusiasts.

As a fervent digital audio enthusiast, let me emphasize the value of smart budgeting. No need to splurge entirely on a DAC, assuming a regular Mac or PC will suffice. Trust me, it won't even come close to the sheer mind-blowing performance of the ultraRendu. This exceptional device is a must-have for any serious audiophile, seeking unparalleled digital audio bliss. Say farewell to mediocrity and embrace a future of sonic excellence with the extraordinary ultraRendu!

I'm listening to Neil right now as I read this! The Freedom album is fantastic.

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, JMcG said:

This exceptional device is a must-have for any serious audiophile, seeking unparalleled digital audio bliss. Say farewell to mediocrity and embrace a future of sonic excellence with the extraordinary ultraRendu!

Wow, some hyperbole there! The OP has an sMS-200Ultra, a highly capable competitor to the ultraRendu. Nothing I've ever read has suggested the uR would be any kind of an upgrade. Both are excellent value. There are better renderers no doubt, at a commensurate price. I just don't believe that the renderer is the best upgrade in this case.

[Guest]

😉