Best Optical config with router, switch and EtherRegen

[FrankMA]

Hello - Finally finished my 100% UniFi network. Love the control/visibilty it provides. I seem to have moved on from the constant Roon stoppages 

 

Just ordered the Sonore OM Deluxe and have the fiber cable

 

Thanks to @kennyb123 for the recommendations

 

The last piece needed for me to try a fiber connection are those FMC's. Getting a bit confused on which one would be best (especially considering availability.  From what I can gather below are the 3 best options:

 

 

I can only find the latter avail (at DigiKey for around $63/ea)

 

My plan would be UniFi Router>Ghent Cat6>OM>Fiber>ER>Sablon LAN>Innuos MKII SE>Phoenix USB>PSA DAC

 

Is that the correct usage? Are there places to get the 1st 2 FMC's or are they discontinued? Are there newer models that are now preferred?

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

[ericuco]

2 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Hello - Finally finished my 100% UniFi network. Love the control/visibilty it provides. I seem to have moved on from the constant Roon stoppages 

 

Just ordered the Sonore OM Deluxe and have the fiber cable

 

Thanks to @kennyb123 for the recommendations

 

The last piece needed for me to try a fiber connection are those FMC's. Getting a bit confused on which one would be best (especially considering availability.  From what I can gather below are the 3 best options:

 

 

I can only find the latter avail (at DigiKey for around $63/ea)

 

My plan would be UniFi Router>Ghent Cat6>OM>Fiber>ER>Sablon LAN>Innuos MKII SE>Phoenix USB>PSA DAC

 

Is that the correct usage? Are there places to get the 1st 2 FMC's or are they discontinued? Are there newer models that are now preferred?

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

Have you checked eBay? Generally a good source.

 

I found Finisar FTLF1324P2BTV listed for $49.

[FrankMA]

Hello @ericuco I did see that on Ebay but thought the TL-MC was preferred

[R1200CL]

11 hours ago, FrankMA said:

From what I can gather below are the 3 best options:

I’ve studied this.

The probably best without paying to much is this one. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finisar-FTLF1421P1BCL-OC-48-STM16-GigaBit-Ethernet-1x-2x-FC-IR-1310nm-SFP/114327996056?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

You need single mode cable. (Which I think you have). 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-3m-10ft-LC-to-LC-UPC-Duplex-Single-Mode-PVC-3-0mm-Fiber-Optic-Patch-Cable/392275293505?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
 

I’ve bought these items myself.

The price is very nice. It’s the right type of laser. I use a short 1 or 3 meter cable. 
 

I was reading about best SFP to be used for something named white rabbit project. 
 

The alternative is SFP+
It’s more expensive I assume. But I think we will soon end there. 

 

[R1200CL]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikrotik-CRS305-1G-4S-IN-Cloud-Router-Switch-4xSFP-1x-GLAN-PoE-In-RouterOS-L5/183724818152?epid=28031751914&hash=item2ac6da3ee8:g:R3wAAOSwbl9f2hlJ

 

A good start for SFP+

[kennyb123]

13 hours ago, FrankMA said:

 

The last piece needed for me to try a fiber connection are those FMC's. Getting a bit confused on which one would be best (especially considering availability.  From what I can gather below are the 3 best options:

 

 

 

 

 

The data sheet provides some insight into the model numbers.

 

The difference between FTLF1324P2BTV and  FTLF1324P2BTV is that V means the rate is selectable while L means that it is not.  L was what was recommended to me.  I have no idea what the characters after the hyphen mean.
 

https://www.integrated-circuit.com/pdf/183/282/4.pdf

 

These will come up often on eBay.  I would be happy to let you borrow my 1318 SFPs to hold you over until you find the 1324 at a good price. 

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

The data sheet provides some insight into the model numbers.

 

The difference between FTLF1324P2BTV and  FTLF1324P2BTV is that V means the rate is selectable while L means that it is not.  L was what was recommended to me.  I have no idea what the characters after the hyphen mean.
 

https://www.integrated-circuit.com/pdf/183/282/4.pdf

 

These will come up often on eBay.  I would be happy to let you borrow my 1318 SFPs to hold you over until you find the 1324 at a good price. 

I will look for Finisar FTLF1324P2BTL-MC and wait for one to come available. Thanks everyone

 

 

Hi @kennyb123 that is very generous of you. Thank you. This community never ceases to amaze me! 

 

Let me search for a bit and I will PM you once I get antsy (probably soon) 

[Rsbrsvp]

Does sfp+ need to  be built into the OM port and the etherregen port, or just the optical modules of OM and etherregen?

 

Also, will sfp+ sound better than sfp or not  necessarily?

[ericuco]

4 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Does sfp+ need to  be built into the OM port and the etherregen port, or just the optical modules of OM and etherregen?

 

Also, will sfp+ sound better than sfp or not  necessarily?

SFP+ transceivers will NOT work in OM or EtherREGEN. Both are 1Gbe only. SFP+ transceivers are generally 10Gbe (or higher).

 

As for sounding better, SFP+ do not necessarily sound better. The point of using SFP+ equipment (switches, transceivers) is that it must meet more stringent requirements (industry standards) so in theory less noise & jitter.

[MrKlutz]

Sorry for probably a stupid question - but I am currently running a cheap TP link converter to an optical fiber (10 meters) ahead of the etherregen. So obviously an OM instead would be an upgrade (with a linear power supply). Here comes the question - wouldn’t it be possible to run an etherregen instead of for example the Sonore OM? Yes kind of daisy-chaining two ERs with 10 meters of fiber cable in between? And if I’m completely off my rockers - be gentle ;-)

[ericuco]

4 minutes ago, MrKlutz said:

Sorry for probably a stupid question - but I am currently running a cheap TP link converter to an optical fiber (10 meters) ahead of the etherregen. So obviously an OM instead would be an upgrade (with a linear power supply). Here comes the question - wouldn’t it be possible to run an etherregen instead of for example the Sonore OM? Yes kind of daisy-chaining two ERs with 10 meters of fiber cable in between? And if I’m completely off my rockers - be gentle ;-)

 

Yes, you should be able to daisy chain two ER together.

 

In general terms, you can connect any two boxes that have SFP ports. The two transceivers (modules) need to be identical in most cases, but not all.

 

If you looking to throw in SFP+ transceivers, then you need to bit a bit more careful in that SFP+ transceivers won't work in SFP ports whereas SFP+ ports will generally work with SFP and SFP+ transceivers.

[R1200CL]

You guys should compare laser types is use. I recommend using DFB 1310nm. The 1324 has Fabry-Perot laser. Also check EOL, and date on data sheets. 

Then maybe look at Jitter numbers. To bad Finisar has removed the nice and informative overview on their website. 
 

 

[skatbelt]

1324 and (replacement) 1318 specsheets:

 

 

finisar_ftlf1324p2xty_4gb_rohs_compliant_long-wave-934372.pdf finisar_ftlf1318p3btl_industrial_temp_1.25g_rohs_c-934368.pdf

[R1200CL]

See the difference in Jitter numbers as one example. 

 

download.pdf

[MrKlutz]

9 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

Yes, you should be able to daisy chain two ER together.

 

In general terms, you can connect any two boxes that have SFP ports. The two transceivers (modules) need to be identical in most cases, but not all.

 

If you looking to throw in SFP+ transceivers, then you need to bit a bit more careful in that SFP+ transceivers won't work in SFP ports whereas SFP+ ports will generally work with SFP and SFP+ transceivers.

Thanks. Just that everywhere I read most are using the Sonore OM+ER as if that’s the best combo when all the singular reviews I’ve read almost always seem to favour the ER over Sonore (standard version).... hence doubling up might be better. 

[R1200CL]

41 minutes ago, MrKlutz said:

Thanks. Just that everywhere I read most are using the Sonore OM+ER as if that’s the best combo when all the singular reviews I’ve read almost always seem to favour the ER over Sonore (standard version).... hence doubling up might be better. 

If you device connected to the ER upstream is optical (SFC port), you must do some rethinking. At least if it’s the original OM we’re talking about.

If you like to use external clock later, you may consider 50 ohms version of the ER. 
 

I just made a quick sketch. (Without optical endpoint). 
 

 

[R1200CL]

With optical endpoint. 
Now it’s to figure out best combination of powers without breaking moat from A to B or B to A. 

 

[Rsbrsvp]

For those using OM, do you use an attenuator?

 

Is it placed on the OM side or ER side?

 

Does anyone who uses it hear a difference?

 

What is the max attenuation that can be used without loosing the signal?

 

 

[R1200CL]

51 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Is it placed on the OM side or ER side?

The drawback (for some) is that the first generation oM can only connect to the A side of the EtherRegen. Doesn’t matter optical or copper. 
 

I can’t see a use of an attenuator should be needed or planned for in any system. 
Maybe I’m missing something ?

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

For those using OM, do you use an attenuator?

 

Is it placed on the OM side or ER side?

 

Does anyone who uses it hear a difference?

 

What is the max attenuation that can be used without loosing the signal?

 

 

 

I use Planet MGB-TLX single mode SFP's rated at 10km without attenuators on a 10m fiber cable. Sounds wonderful. Did not bother to experiment with attenuators because a few others already stated (in another Uptone related thread) that they didn't like the effect  / it deteriorated the results with these SFP's. 

[MrKlutz]

10 hours ago, R1200CL said:

If you device connected to the ER upstream is optical (SFC port), you must do some rethinking. At least if it’s the original OM we’re talking about.

If you like to use external clock later, you may consider 50 ohms version of the ER. 
 

I just made a quick sketch. (Without optical endpoint). 
 

 

Thanks for this. But my endpoint is ethernet and with the 10m fiber between first Ethernet and second I would most likely anyway only be clocking one of them. I am planning Router-Ethernet to-ER B-side-fiber from A side -to-2nd ER B side- and then Ethernet from the a-side to streamer.

[ericuco]

10 minutes ago, MrKlutz said:

Thanks for this. But my endpoint is ethernet and with the 10m fiber between first Ethernet and second I would most likely anyway only be clocking one of them. I am planning Router-Ethernet to-ER B-side-fiber from A side -to-2nd ER B side- and then Ethernet from the a-side to streamer.

 

Note that ER B side is 100 Mbps speed which may or may not be a problem. In other words, anything going to/from router would be limited to 100 Mbps.

[MarkusBarkus]

59 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

I use Planet MGB-TLX single mode SFP's rated at 10km without attenuators on a 10m fiber cable. Sounds wonderful.

I use the same SFPs and 14m of fiber cable, with no attenuators. There was some speculation about the laser over-saturating the device, but I have not read of someone actually showing that had happened to them. Maybe it take 20 yrs...

[MrKlutz]

1 hour ago, ericuco said:

 

Note that ER B side is 100 Mbps speed which may or may not be a problem. In other words, anything going to/from router would be limited to 100 Mbps.

Yep. It’s a dedicated music “line” all the way from the outside broadband inlet through a dedicated router etc. So not planning to run anything else 

[MrKlutz]

3 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

Note that ER B side is 100 Mbps speed which may or may not be a problem. In other words, anything going to/from router would be limited to 100 Mbps.

Sorry - a bit slow. But yes then that’s why the sonore OM fits the bill better as my router is a gigabit and possible wouldn’t work with the 100 Mbps of the b-side. Hmmm.