Best Optical config with router, switch and EtherRegen

[Superdad]

12 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

(Audiophile accounting that convinces yourself its cheaper to buy something 😅)

 

Hey, "audiophile accounting" is what puts my kids through college!  

(But since UpTone is about offering good products a reasonable prices, our offspring only get to go to state colleges.  And now with Covid19 our bedrooms are their dorm rooms...)

[BigAlMc]

20 minutes ago, Superdad said:

And now with Covid19 our bedrooms are their dorm rooms...)

 

Haha!

 

Hey Alex, you're only getting some sympathy if you assure us the kids aren't in their dorm/bedrooms sweating over books on electrical regulation, ripple control and the encyclopedia Johnius Swensonius 😆

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

[kennyb123]

Question for you @BigAlMc.  Every try running your DAC straight into your amps (bypassing your Hegel pre)?  I was under the impression your DAC had a really good volume control. 

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

Question for you @BigAlMc.  Every try running your DAC straight into your amps (bypassing your Hegel pre)?  I was under the impression your DAC had a really good volume control. 

 

Funnily enough its on the list.

 

I'm putting it off as involves proper climbing behind the rack and dissembling/reassembling everything. But it's planned soon.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[kennyb123]

3 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Funnily enough its on the list.

 

I'm putting it off as involves proper climbing behind the rack and dissembling/reassembling everything. But it's planned soon.

 

My guess is that you’ll be kicking yourself for not trying it sooner.  

[BigAlMc]

Yeah quite possibly. A free upgrade.

 

Also PS Audio just released the M1200 power amps and people on PSA forum are saying they are a big improvement on the M700s that I have.

 

I barely use the Hegel for the purpose I bought it for. Flipping between music and AV bypass. So am thinking of selling the Hegel and M700s to help finance the M1200s.

 

But first I need to listen to the DAC direct to power amps and see if I like it.

[BigAlMc]

On 6/27/2020 at 8:18 AM, kennyb123 said:

My guess is that you’ll be kicking yourself for not trying it sooner.  

 

Goddammit! 😏

 

Yup. After AB-ing the Phoenix vs nothing and vs TX-USBUltra yesterday I reconfigured the rack and took the Hegel out. The system was already sounding brilliant but the Directstream direct to the M700s (using Cerious Technologies graphene XLRs) added even more immediacy.

 

I feel like I'm only now hearing what my Salks are capable of. A free upgrade indeed and it was under my nose the whole time... 🤔

 

I guess this is kinda off topic but as the Op I'll allow it 😉

 

[kennyb123]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Goddammit! 😏

 

Yup. After AB-ing the Phoenix vs nothing and vs TX-USBUltra yesterday I reconfigured the rack and took the Hegel out. The system was already sounding brilliant but the Directstream direct to the M700s (using Cerious Technologies graphene XLRs) added even more immediacy.

 

I feel like I'm only now hearing what my Salks are capable of. A free upgrade indeed and it was under my nose the whole time... 🤔

 

I guess this is kinda off topic but as the Op I'll allow it 😉

 

Told you so 😀

 

I had a partial excuse for it being under my nose a long time - I had two sources so the preamp made sense.  Hearing the improvement from my DAC run directly into my amp is one of the things that lead me to narrowing down to a single source.  I didn’t listen to analog often enough to justify a preamp upgrade.

[kzs70]

On 6/26/2020 at 7:28 AM, kennyb123 said:

I’m late to this but just wanted to confirm that OM to ER is wonderful with those Finisar SFPs.  A Farad Super3 improved the ER bringing maybe as much of an improvement as the ER itself.  The OM improved with better power but I haven’t spent much money at that end.  

 

Hello,

 

I remeber reading in a different thread that you have tried other SFPs with the ER, Planar too.

Eventually which one did you like the most?

I am looking for a new pair to connect my Lumin x1 to the ER....Thanks!

[kennyb123]

4 hours ago, kzs70 said:

Hello,

 

I remeber reading in a different thread that you have tried other SFPs with the ER, Planar too.

Eventually which one did you like the most?

I am looking for a new pair to connect my Lumin x1 to the ER....Thanks!

 

My current favorite is the Finisar FTLF1324P2BTL-MC, which is now end of life (but can be found on eBay).  There's a newer version, but I've not tried it.  I am very happy with the way things sound now as far as my network, so I'm going to try to stay put with these SFPs.

[lxgreen]

I’m currently using an EtherRegen powered by an uptone 1.2. I added an unused trendnet FMC prior to the EtherRegen but was unable to detect any improvements in SQ. I am using another 1.2 in another system so will see if that is any better. Interesting to hear improvements in different configurations.

 

BTW @BigAlMc, I have a similar router with phone inputs. However, I was able to use a third party modem and router and keep the provided modem/router/ phone for just the phone use. This way you can choose your own modem and router and still have you phone line separate.

[kennyb123]

24 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I’m currently using an EtherRegen powered by an uptone 1.2. I added an unused trendnet FMC prior to the EtherRegen but was unable to detect any improvements in SQ. I am using another 1.2 in another system so will see if that is any better. Interesting to hear improvements in different configurations.

 

 

I replaced a Startech FMC that was used upstream of the ER with the opticalModule.  This was a very important move as it reduced a hard edge.  Highly recommended.

[BigAlMc]

11 hours ago, lxgreen said:

BTW @BigAlMc, I have a similar router with phone inputs. However, I was able to use a third party modem and router and keep the provided modem/router/ phone for just the phone use. This way you can choose your own modem and router and still have you phone line separate.

 

Thanks @lxgreen,

 

Out of interest what does this look like. Is it:

 

Wall (ISP port) > 'own modem/router' > ISP router (for phone only)  ?

or

Wall (ISP port) > ISP router (for phone only) > 'own modem/router' ?

 

Or is it something different?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[lxgreen]

I use a splitter for the incoming cable coax.  One end goes to the phone modem and the other goes to my personal modem which connects to my personal router.

[FrankMA]

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice on network improvements for my audio chain. I'm seeing a lot of people using the Buffalo BS-GS2016 (although I only see the Buffalo BS-GS2016P avail for around $300). 

 

Been having a ton of Roon issues (think reliability of Experimental on the Innuos) since last May/June. PS Audio blamed Roon. Roon agreed but has provided zero support. Some testing eliminated the Innuos since it also happened on a MAC core. They finally looked at the logs 6 mos later and now think it's my network since it stops on Qobuz content. Of course I have zero issues anywhere else and this started with their May/Jun update

 

Saying that I have been looking at my network. You can see from the attached drawing. I used to route through a Netgear GS308 behind my audio rack by bypassed that recently. Also threw a spare Uptone LPS on the Trendnet. Still having the same stoppages.

Now I'm looking to replace that Trendnet which feeds many points in my house which I'm sure is a weak point. Want to go 16 port as well.

 

Would that Buffalo be good in this application?

How difficult is the setup?

What about the power conservation? I hear it can cause issues. Can it be turned off by port?

Would I be better off with a 2nd ER as it leaves the Trendnet vs replacing the switch?

If I went optical could that be converted close to the Trendnet or would it need to be near the ISP Router? In that case I have to feed up to my attic (won't be easy)

Should I be looking for a used BS-GS2016?

 

Thank guys

 

[kennyb123]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:19 AM, FrankMA said:

Saying that I have been looking at my network. You can see from the attached drawing.

Very nice diagram!  I can’t answer your specific questions, but wanted to mention that I have a network that’s about the same level of complexity as yours, and I found that a switch to UniFi by Ubiquity has helped me gain better visibility into the health of my network.  
 

UniFi provides a demo environment that allows you to test drive their Controller.  It’s far more complex than what we would have in our homes as far as the number of devices, but it will give you a sense of how a network control plane application can benefit.   https://demo.ui.com

 

Of course this is just the foundational stuff - and not audio specific.  But the foundational stuff can cause some real headaches as you’ve seen.

[FrankMA]

Thanks Kenny - thought this might be too convoluted a problem!

 

Pretty impressive control software. They look like nice units that would definitely be an upgrade over what I am using as the backbone of my home network. Are you using their wi-fi access points as well? Will definitely investigate

 

I know you are a fiber proponent.  For me to get the max benefit do I have to convert to fiber close to the cable modem/router or can it be farther downstream?

 

Thanks again

 

 

[FrankMA]

I am going down the UniFi rabbit hole. Thanks @kennyb123 😋 that control software is amazing 

 

Have already added a Dream Machine before my Verizon Fios modem/router. Have more products on order (switches/access points)

 

Upgraded to Roon 1.8. Problem still ongoing.

 

Once I get the Trendnet replaced with the UniFi switch I'll have to see if I can prioritize the Zenith's port.

 

Maybe optical

 

Not sure where else to go.

[kennyb123]

On 2/1/2021 at 7:38 AM, FrankMA said:

Pretty impressive control software. They look like nice units that would definitely be an upgrade over what I am using as the backbone of my home network. Are you using their wi-fi access points as well? Will definitely investigate

 

Here's a list of my UniFi devices.  The top devices is a Security Gateway.  This not needed separately if you get the Dream Machine.

 

The Switch 8 has a single POE output.  It provides power to the NanoHD access point.  The Switch 8 POE-150 powers everything else in that list via POE.  

 

The two access points listed at the bottom are from their early adopter program.  Easy to sign up and once you do you can purchase pre-release versions when they are in stock.  These require beta firmware so a bit more effort is required.

 

 

 

 

On 2/1/2021 at 7:38 AM, FrankMA said:

 

I know you are a fiber proponent.  For me to get the max benefit do I have to convert to fiber close to the cable modem/router or can it be farther downstream?

 

 

A fiber leg can perform some isolation. You can see in the diagram below that I have two fiber legs.  The leg in my listening room was an important contribution.  The leg in the wiring closet brought a very subtle improvement.   Not sure I would have spent the money to get there but I had extra stuff that allowed me to do this.

 

 

 

[FrankMA]

Hi Kenny,

Looks like you have a nice direct/clean run for your network. Mine is a bit more convoluted.

 

Are you going Ethernet out of that ONT or the traditional RG6 to a FIOS cable modem?

 

Really like this UniFi ecosystem.  Thanks for the recommendation. The amount of visibility into what is going on is incredible. Setup software is great as well. Been working on isolating my networks/devices (lan,guest, IOT) and firewall rules. So far so good

 

I am interested in your OM>ER fiber run.  The OM is a Sonore? Probably with a Farad Super 3 powering it right? I have an Uptone LPS 1.2 lying around.

I didn't think there would be much benefit on a short run of fiber like this. I had read there could be issues with too much signal strength on shorter runs. Did you use some sort of attenuator?  This is certainly something I could add to my setup. What fiber optic cable are you using?

 

I have 3 flex mini's, a 16 port POE lite switch and an UniFi 6 access point due in soon.  Of course Roon recommends only unmanaged switches which I noticed after I bough all this (although I doubt it will be that much of an issue).

 

Can you prioritize traffic on a port on one of these switches? My Zenith will be on that 16 port switch

 

Thanks for all the info. Stay safe!

[kennyb123]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:34 AM, FrankMA said:

 

Are you going Ethernet out of that ONT or the traditional RG6 to a FIOS cable modem?

 

The wiring from ONT to my wiring closet was done by the provider.  The net result is a short ethernet cable in the closet that I am able to just connect to my internet gateway. 

 

On 2/15/2021 at 4:34 AM, FrankMA said:

 

I am interested in your OM>ER fiber run.  The OM is a Sonore? Probably with a Farad Super 3 powering it right? I have an Uptone LPS 1.2 lying around.

I didn't think there would be much benefit on a short run of fiber like this. I had read there could be issues with too much signal strength on shorter runs. Did you use some sort of attenuator?  This is certainly something I could add to my setup. What fiber optic cable are you using?

 

It's the original Sonore opticalModule.  I'm powering it with an "el cheapo" Chinese linear power supply - though the output of this is sent to a DXP that provides a single stage of regulation.  I went cheap on this with the plan to maybe upgrade at some future time.  

 

My run of fiber between ER and OM is 8m and I'm using this cable.  

 

One nice thing about my K30 music server is that I can install my own SSDs.  I have installed a 4TB drive and it's currently about a quarter of the way full of music.  Lately for my later-in-the-evening focused listening sessions, I have been powering down my network.  The "el cheapo" is plugged into a Kasa smart plug so I can power it on/off using my iPhone.  In addition, I shutdown Roon and just let HQPlayer do the playback.  Shutting down Roon does improve the sound quality and despite my network optimizations, powering down the network does remove a very slight edge.  For my later-in-the-evening focused listening I also set aside my iPad and listen with the lights turned off - and it's been just freaking wonderful since the K30 landed here.  During my less focused sessions, my network stays up and I run Roon and it's freaking wonderful as well - but that's when I'm mostly doing musical exploration with Roon Radio taking over.  

 

On 2/15/2021 at 4:34 AM, FrankMA said:

 

I have 3 flex mini's, a 16 port POE lite switch and an UniFi 6 access point due in soon.  Of course Roon recommends only unmanaged switches which I noticed after I bough all this (although I doubt it will be that much of an issue).

 

Can you prioritize traffic on a port on one of these switches? My Zenith will be on that 16 port switch

 

Managed switches can be problematic when just thrown in as if they were unmanaged switches.  That's likely what Roon was concerned with.

 

I'm sure that traffic can be prioritized, but I've not done it.  

 

[RikkiPoo]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

In addition, I shutdown Roon and just let HQPlayer do the playback.  Shutting down Roon does improve the sound quality and despite my network optimizations, powering down the network does remove a very slight edge.

How does that work with Roon shut down?  Can HQPlayer access the library on the server?  I have an Antipodes Core that has some form of HQPlayer embedded.  I think I need to purchase another form of it to use for DSP.  I use the Core to run Roon core although I do have a library on it;  I use an Innous Statement as my server as it sounds better than playing from the Antipodes Core.  Would I be able to listen to the Statement?

[kennyb123]

9 minutes ago, RikkiPoo said:

How does that work with Roon shut down?  Can HQPlayer access the library on the server?  I have an Antipodes Core that has some form of HQPlayer embedded.  I think I need to purchase another form of it to use for DSP.  I use the Core to run Roon core although I do have a library on it;  I use an Innous Statement as my server as it sounds better than playing from the Antipodes Core.  Would I be able to listen to the Statement?

 

Antipodes does something really smart in that they create a virtual storage that is shared across all server apps.   This can contain local folders and folders shared from a NAS.  Roon, Squeeze and HQPlayer are all set to scan /storage/music so they all see the same music (though I have to manually sync both Squeeze and HQPlayer).

 

There is a simple setting in the UI to stop Roon.   When I do that I just play music in HQPlayer using HQPDconrol v4 app.  

 

Can you clarify how you are running things?  Is your Statement configured as a Roon player only with Roon Core running on the Antipodes?

[RikkiPoo]

Kenny,  you are correct I have the Statement as a Roon endpoint/player and the Roon core is on the Antipodes Core.  Is the Virtual Storage something new from Antipodes?

[kennyb123]

On 2/16/2021 at 9:15 PM, RikkiPoo said:

Kenny,  you are correct I have the Statement as a Roon endpoint/player and the Roon core is on the Antipodes Core.  Is the Virtual Storage something new from Antipodes?

 

They actually refer to it as a "Logical Volume".  I used an incorrect term in my post.   It's first mentioned in the AMSv3 user guide found here under Library Tools.  Also if you scroll forward to the section on their File Manager you will see how NAS volumes can be included in this.  Really smart approach.  

 

As far as using your Statement as the endpoint/player, you really can't make use of HQPlayer since the innuOS 1.0 doesn't provide HQPlayer NAA support.  Hopefully that will appear in their upcoming innuOS 2.0 but I've not heard one way or the other.