HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[toddrhodes]

Yep, can confirm - once I put the Zen Stream back in, no change to settings, it's like 12-15 dB more quiet in PCM mode (doesn't matter whether I upsample or not).

 

I'll ping iFi on it. 

 

/themoreyouknow.gif

[Iceaero]

So, question:  Does anyone use DSD and HQPlayer and also check the '48k' support box in the settings?

 

I've started using DSD256 as my primary conversion, and I notice that when the source material changes bitrate between 44.1x and 48x I get an audible pop in the deadspace between tracks.  I did a little sleuthing and realized it must have something to do with the change from one clock to the other.  Has anyone else experienced this?  I assume that unchecking the 48k DSD support is a solution, but perhaps there's something else?

[ericuco]

43 minutes ago, Iceaero said:

So, question:  Does anyone use DSD and HQPlayer and also check the '48k' support box in the settings?

 

I've started using DSD256 as my primary conversion, and I notice that when the source material changes bitrate between 44.1x and 48x I get an audible pop in the deadspace between tracks.  I did a little sleuthing and realized it must have something to do with the change from one clock to the other.  Has anyone else experienced this?  I assume that unchecking the 48k DSD support is a solution, but perhaps there's something else?

 

You can also control output with the Adaptive Output Rate checkbox on the bottom section of the Settings panel.

[Iceaero]

1 hour ago, ericuco said:

 

You can also control output with the Adaptive Output Rate checkbox on the bottom section of the Settings panel.

Yes, that's true.  I suppose I'm wondering if there's a solution that keeps the system switching between the two clocks as necessary (why not, I suppose? If we have two clocks, let's use them), but prevents the pops.  Honestly, I don't know if they are purely a result of the DAC or a combination of the signal sent by HQPlayer and the DAC.  If the former, presumably there is no solution but removing the rate-switching.

[Miska]

14 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

For some reason ALSA / Linux sets a lot of devices to 45/100 by default. 

 

ALSA default volume is -60 dB for safety reasons. To avoid blasting someone's ears...

 

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Iceaero said:

So, question:  Does anyone use DSD and HQPlayer and also check the '48k' support box in the settings?

 

I've started using DSD256 as my primary conversion, and I notice that when the source material changes bitrate between 44.1x and 48x I get an audible pop in the deadspace between tracks.  I did a little sleuthing and realized it must have something to do with the change from one clock to the other.  Has anyone else experienced this?  I assume that unchecking the 48k DSD support is a solution, but perhaps there's something else?

 

Are you perhaps using DoP for DSD output? I haven't heard any pops with my Spring DACs, but I run those in native mode.

 

With Spring 2, Spring 3 and May you should be able to safely check the "48k DSD" box. With Spring 1, since it would play at incorrect speed (using 44.1k clock).

 

[Cogito]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Are you perhaps using DoP for DSD output? I haven't heard any pops with my Spring DACs, but I run those in native mode.

 

With Spring 2, Spring 3 and May you should be able to safely check the "48k DSD" box. With Spring 1, since it would play at incorrect speed (using 44.1k clock).

 

unlike PCM there are no DSD sources available in multiples of 48kHz. What does checking “48k DSD” box do?

[Iceaero]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Are you perhaps using DoP for DSD output? I haven't heard any pops with my Spring DACs, but I run those in native mode.

 

With Spring 2, Spring 3 and May you should be able to safely check the "48k DSD" box. With Spring 1, since it would play at incorrect speed (using 44.1k clock).

 

Nope, leaving DoP unchecked.  I’m doing some testing tonight with 48k DSD and adaptive output *unchecked* and I’m not hearing any pops. This all from PCM content via ASDMEC256 using poly-sinc-ext2. 
 

I’ll test more tomorrow, but I’m pretty sure the pop (it’s just one, and not always in both speakers or even the same loudness [never loud, but clearly audible]) is only present when the source rate changes between tracks. Again, with 48k DSD and adaptive output checked.  

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Cogito said:

unlike PCM there are no DSD sources available in multiples of 48kHz. What does checking “48k DSD” box do?

 

By default HQPlayer doesn't try to output DSD at multiples of 48k, because most DACs don't support this. Instead, for upsampling you'd convert 48k-base PCM content to 44.1k-base DSD. However, some DACs, like recent Holo Audio ones, do support DSD also at multiples of 48k. Which gives you wider choice of upsampling filters - also those ones that can do only integer multiples.

 

There can be DSD sources available at what ever rate you like. You can use HQPlayer Pro for example to create DSD files at multiples of 123k if you like.

 

[mushi]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:00 AM, firedog said:

https://avahifi.com/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker

 

I can testify that this works.

Please tell me, did your holo make noise from day one or did it start making noise after a while?

[Extreme_Boky]

My May toroids started making noise after a while. It is not the DC on mains. It is a constant current draw of the output stage working in class A that's causing it - causing the flat wire windings to become slightly loose and start to hum. The toroid is made by order... if you check the plastic wrapping used - you'll see that is not ideal, it is too stiff  😲 - it does not keep that flat copper wire under sufficient tension to prevent vibrations. 

 

Here's how you can determine if it's DC on your mains supply, or the high quiescent current of the output stage (and that plastic wrapping...) that's causing the hum/buzz:

 

- bring your ear very close to the power supply unit

 

- turn the power ON (on the May DAC unit). You'll hear the relay inside the power supply box click (the first click). This will apply the mains (110/120V AC) to the toroids' primary. At this point, if you hear the buzz straight away (straight after the first click) - it's the DC on your mains

 

- If you still can't hear the buzz, wait for 2-3 seconds until the relay inside the May DAC unit clicks (the second click) - which will apply the voltage to the output class-A stage (and the high quiescent current will start running through the output stage). If you hear the buzz at this particular point (after the second click) onwards, it's the loose windings... stiff plastic used for windings' isolation/wrapping.

 

 

[mushi]

1 hour ago, Extreme_Boky said:

My May toroids started making noise after a while. It is not the DC on mains. It is a constant current draw of the output stage working in class A that's causing it - causing the flat wire windings to become slightly loose and start to hum. The toroid is made by order... if you check the plastic wrapping used - you'll see that is not ideal, it is too stiff  😲 - it does not keep that flat copper wire under sufficient tension to prevent vibrations. 

 

Here's how you can determine if it's DC on your mains supply, or the high quiescent current of the output stage (and that plastic wrapping...) that's causing the hum/buzz:

 

- bring your ear very close to the power supply unit

 

- turn the power ON (on the May DAC unit). You'll hear the relay inside the power supply box click (the first click). This will apply the mains (110/120V AC) to the toroids' primary. At this point, if you hear the buzz straight away (straight after the first click) - it's the DC on your mains

 

- If you still can't hear the buzz, wait for 2-3 seconds until the relay inside the May DAC unit clicks (the second click) - which will apply the voltage to the output class-A stage (and the high quiescent current will start running through the output stage). If you hear the buzz at this particular point (after the second click) onwards, it's the loose windings... stiff plastic used for windings' isolation/wrapping.

 

 

This is very interesting!

 

After turning on the voltage on the back of the May power section, you can hear the current flow very quietly.

 

Then, when you turn on the power button on the resistor section, May's power section immediately starts humming, and after second click after three seconds, it hums at the same level.

 

That earlier episode with a half-minute loud intense rattling scared me into thinking May was about to explode or burn up..

 

If this humming effect did not occur in the beginning, is it possible that some capacitors have worn out partially or the power converter?

 

Yesterday I took a closer look at it:

 

 

I checked organoleptically up close and marked with red circles where the noise level is highest. What surprised me was that when I put my ear to the transformer from above, I could hear almost nothing. From the top you can hear the hum the most in the area of the left blue element and capacitors (with the right blue element also, but a bit less) and in the area of the transformer, but from the bottom next to the housing, strange, maybe vibrations go to the housing there, I don't know, but you can't hear it from above so as from the bottom in the mounting area with the housing.

 

It was hard for me to say unequivocally that there is a hum in EXACTLY THIS PLACE.

 

[Extreme_Boky]

48 minutes ago, mushi said:

After turning on the voltage on the back of the May power section, you can hear the current flow very quietly.

 

Then, when you turn on the power button on the resistor section, May's power section immediately starts humming, and after second click after three seconds, it hums at the same level.

 

 

From what you wrote above, it seem like you have DC on mains. So, get the DC line blocker. 

 

 

 

 

[mushi]

45 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

From what you wrote above, it seem like you have DC on mains. So, get the DC line blocker. 

 

 

I wrote to the seller in this topic, we'll see what they answer, I guess the same.

 

I would like to stuff something like this in May, but I'm afraid the capacitors will be too high.

Or insert this blocker into a larger power strip.

[firedog]

7 hours ago, mushi said:

Please tell me, did your holo make noise from day one or did it start making noise after a while?

Don't have a Holo. It was with another device. It wasn't from day one. DC offset is usually something that comes and goes. But it doesn't matter. If you have DC offset on the line, the device helps.

[mushi]

I'm sure that i'll try this device soon.

 

Thank you guys for your time,

m.

[rocky]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:56 PM, simonklp said:

@rocky, I have been paying attention to this thread for quite some time already, since I own a May for more than a year. One of the information that I want to find out is something similar to your case. I have also noticed that there is sometimes sibilance especially on vocals from May, but it only appears when I play the PCM music by upsampling it to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer. Even though, I didn't find such sibilance at upsampling frequency lower than that (e.g. at 705.6k). In addition, before the upgrade of the last USB driver about a month ago, the situation was even worse, the sibilance was not just on vocal only. In addition, it also appeared to be a type high pitch sharp noise. But it did also only happen for PCM music upsampled to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer.

 

In the past, I was not sure whether the problem was related to either HQPlayer, May, or other issues (e.g. other hardware). I have asked Jeff (designer of May) why this happened. But he has no idea, and only replied it should not be caused by the USB driver and the firmware versions. He has also said he has not heard of the feedback of this kind of problem from other users.

 

This morning, I have found that by not using the JCAT USB Card XE (i.e. via the ordinary USB port on the NAA PC), the sibilance at 1411.2k PCM upsampling has gone. I doubt whether it is due the IC chips used in the JCAT USB cards may not be from Intel that may account for this problem.

 

I would suggest that you may try to bypass the JCAT USB Card in your setup, and see if the sibilance will go away. Cheers.

 

Thanks Simon as that got me too look more into the JCat Femto USB card.

I noticed in my notes that I have to listen louder with Spring 3 than my previous Spring 2 to bring some of the details out more.

Not so good as low listening levels that I used to use as background music while working on PC.

 

Saw some great Reviews on the Ferrum Hypsos Power Supply and have always been looking to buy a versatile power supply. Its on special here plus what I hear worldwide with shortages in the chip market and transport, things may go up or be hard to source.

The Hypsos would allow me to run most components as future stuff. Looking at phono stages, RPI4 devices, Lumin etc.

 

Got the the Hypsos and decided I would try it out on the JCat USB card. It has transformed my listening.

I have all those micro details back, great separation, bass with impact, better soundstage etc and great again to listen at low levels. 

 

Used that a few days and switched back to my usual other Cheaper chinese 5V PSU (talema 25W one) and it drops those attributes again.

Back to Hypsos and all great again.

This surprised me no end. I was not expecting a different PSU connected in my chain here would have such an effect.

Still using the JCat to Singxer SU-6 to i2S on the Holo.

 

My PC (my source for music) which has the JCat card is an older Gigabyte GA-H81.Amp-UP MB with i5-4460T CPU. Hence I have been looking at getting a new source one of these days.

So maybe with my system has benefited well from the better PSU on the JCat.

I am sure the Spring 2 was all ok before (loved listening sessions) but it has now been over a month since I sold it, so no current comparisons but now I feel I am back to a great place in my listening sessions. 

 

[Iceaero]

On 10/7/2021 at 9:14 PM, Iceaero said:

Nope, leaving DoP unchecked.  I’m doing some testing tonight with 48k DSD and adaptive output *unchecked* and I’m not hearing any pops. This all from PCM content via ASDMEC256 using poly-sinc-ext2. 
 

I’ll test more tomorrow, but I’m pretty sure the pop (it’s just one, and not always in both speakers or even the same loudness [never loud, but clearly audible]) is only present when the source rate changes between tracks. Again, with 48k DSD and adaptive output checked.  

Little bit more info, as I can now say that always get this pop/click when starting DSD playback (for both 44.1x or 48x), but so long as I never change clocks (i.e., adaptive output unchecked), the pop doe not reappear between tracks.  

 

I'm curious if anyone has heard anything similar?  It's possible that you won't hear it from your listening position, but you would easily within a few feet of the tweeter. 

[mr. Fancypants]

I always get 1 pop when I use my modded Oppo 203 as a SACD transport when the first song starts.  And a second pop when I stop the disc and change to a different media source.  The popping noise does not happen when playing DSD files off a hard drive connected to the Oppo or an Ifi Zen streamer.  It just seems to be some wierd SACD thing in my case.

[Miska]

Pops are muting issue. By specification, output should be muted for about 50 ms during start and stop, crossing the time when DAC begins or ends conversion of a new stream.

 

[ripples]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Pops are muting issue

i recognize these  pops issues with audirvana ....but thats out of scope here

 

In my case with hqp  dsd512   i'm getting a hizz sound (white noise which slowly deflates)  the 1e time i play then after that i can start / stop and no issue until i switch to lower rates and go back to dsd512.

 

 

using : Asio driver under windows 10

 

[Miska]

16 hours ago, ripples said:

In my case with hqp  dsd512   i'm getting a hizz sound (white noise which slowly deflates)  the 1e time i play then after that i can start / stop and no issue until i switch to lower rates and go back to dsd512.

 

That in turn is usually clocking problem. Please check that you don't have "48k DSD" checked.

 

[elcorso]

Following topic...

 

Roch

[mushi]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:30 PM, Extreme_Boky said:

 

From what you wrote above, it seem like you have DC on mains. So, get the DC line blocker.

 

I used a dc blocker yesterday and unfortunately nothing has changed. I wonder what's next..

[davide256]

Does the May support Chord's DX mode for 768 over dual coax/BNC?