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HOLO Audio MAY DAC


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1 hour ago, camott said:

 

Right, I misunderstood signal chain. And completely agree on the digital/analog attenuation.

 

@Roasty what's the input sensitivity of your pre-amp? @Phil_Bog likewise your amp?

 

 

No idea I'm afraid - it's not a spec listed by HeadAmp (it's a GS-X Mini).

 

When burning in a new DAC, I understand that it needs to have a signal going to it - ie actually playing music. Do I have to have it outputting to an amp, or can I just have it silently working away in a different zone?

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47 minutes ago, wanta911 said:

 

I wonder how many of the reports of harshness are attributable to output > input mismatches?

I would say a 'lot'.  Never could get used to the hot output from an MPD-3 , far too much for 700mV 'regular ' pre amp input. Finally settled for a DAC from the same manufacturer and no more hot problems since. 

Use a potentiometer to find the right value then make a resistance network to suit, using metal films. Software volume is available but analog clamping works.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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26 minutes ago, Phil_Bog said:

 

 

I actually have the same issue, also via USB. 

 

Ok I am somewhat relieved I'm not the only one.. 

 

Well, if you find a fix, please let me know. I thought it was my Sotm streamer and even tried reflashing a new sd card/firmware but the problem persists. Also tried reinstalling Roon and that didn't work either. 

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3 minutes ago, Roasty said:

 

Ok I am somewhat relieved I'm not the only one.. 

 

Well, if you find a fix, please let me know. I thought it was my Sotm streamer and even tried reflashing a new sd card/firmware but the problem persists. Also tried reinstalling Roon and that didn't work either. 

I'm using roopie on a USBRIDGE signature and I have no such issues. 

Used to have delays and slow PPL locking via spdif, but nothing via USB.... 

Silly question: have you tried a different USB cable?

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29 minutes ago, damascato said:

I'm using roopie on a USBRIDGE signature and I have no such issues. 

Used to have delays and slow PPL locking via spdif, but nothing via USB.... 

Silly question: have you tried a different USB cable?

 

I have not tried a different USB. Thanks for the suggestion. I will give it a try tonight. At present, using a Sablon 2020 USB. 

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15 hours ago, Phil_Bog said:

Hi guys, my May Level 2 arrived last week from Wildism. The issue I'm having is that out of the box, and up until now, I'm finding the May to be quite harsh-sounding.

From my close to 40 years experience, in modifying high-end gear and building DAC's / amplifiers and playing/adjusting reel-to-reels (especially lately - these things are popular again!! - for the exact same reason why you disliked May sound), and from what I've seen inside the power supply unit which I finally opened last week, the possible reason could be the type of electrolytic capacitors and the type of film capacitors used, as well as the value(s) - the film capacitor value in particular. I think I know why Jeff chose to use many a 1uF (single capacitance value) film caps... however, a different type of these film caps, and a different value, would yield a more relaxed sound. 

 

But... I can tell that May is a product of a fanatic (an experienced high-end audio aficionado), who also happens to be a brilliant electronics engineer. 

 

You are not going to go inside and start changing these caps... right? 

 

So, here are few suggestions that will definitely help:

 

- separate the PS unit from the DAC unit. Place a heavy, thick wooden butcher chopping board underneath the power supply unit. Do not use any additional feet. Don't place anything on top of PS and DAC units. You should notice a marked improvement. Then, play with butcher chopping boards, and try different isolation feet. I noticed that May DAC and PS units require a good vibrations' coupling to where they sit on... and the supplied feet with many soft bumpons are in fact quite good. So, a bit of experimenting is required.

- play with cables.... here's the order of impact: power cables, interconnect cables, USB cables. Do not use silver-plated cables in your case. 

- try a different source. A low noise environment is crucial for a good digital audio sound. With this in mind, the very latest processors will let you run them at very low switching voltages. Also, use a bit-perfect replay chain and try to keep the processor switching frequency at a minimum (underclock them).  Definitely use a low noise power supply - a good linear power supply will be great (this is strictly against the notion of using HQPlayer that requires large CPU voltages, fast switching frequencies... ). If you really have to overclock (to combat the NOS high-frequency roll-off with native files recorded at 44.1) try to overclock to only 88.1/96kHz. All other source files (96kHz and higher, or DSD files) do not require overclocking. If you like the functionality of Windows OS, go with Windows Server 2012 or similar, which will have a minimum number of background services/applications running "out-of-the-box".

- a special note re USB cables: apart from passing the digital signal, the USB cable has to have a very good ground coupling between the source and the DAC box. The shield, as well as +5V feed, must comply with good practices when it comes to keeping the high-frequency noise at bay. So, properly terminated USB cables (especially how well the shield braid is soldered to tiny USB connectors at either end) are very important. 

 

Consider a single-box Holo DAC... I have serious reservations when it comes to the choice of connectors used with May and its power supply feed from PS to DAC box. These connectors are not good for audio. They have very thin pins, and I am pretty sure they are not made from copper (a brass alloy of some sort) - even if Jeff decided to use multiple pins in parallel, for a single DC rail; there were better choices.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

play with cables.... here's the order of impact: power cables

 

For whatever reason, I have found plugging the May's power supply directly into the wall sounds better than through a power conditioner.

 

14 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

Definitely use a low noise power supply - a good linear power supply will be great (this is strictly against the notion of using HQPlayer that requires large CPU voltages, fast switching frequencies... ).

 If you really have to overclock (to combat the NOS high-frequency roll-off with native files recorded at 44.1) try to overclock to only 88.1/96kHz. All other source files (96kHz and higher, or DSD files) do not require overclocking.

 

With HQPlayer server directly connected to the DAC maybe this is true .... but using an HQPlayer NAA endpoint with an LPS is about as low power/low noise as is possible. All it does is relay the stream from remote server, be it 44/48 or heavily upsampled. I use a low power Fitlet2 with optical input to isolate any ethernet noise. With an LPS of course.

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7 minutes ago, camott said:

 

For whatever reason, I have found plugging the May's power supply directly into the wall sounds better than through a power conditioner.

 

 

With HQPlayer server directly connected to the DAC maybe this is true .... but using an HQPlayer NAA endpoint with an LPS is about as low power/low noise as is possible. All it does is relay the stream from remote server, be it 44/48 or heavily upsampled. I use a low power Fitlet2 with optical input to isolate any ethernet noise. With an LPS of course.

 

On 9/24/2021 at 7:39 AM, 87mpi said:

Yes, 256 and 7EC modulator. 

 

I come from an older 3 Pc networked system, a nuc i5 for roon server, i9 9900k for HQP, nuc i3 fanless as endpoint NAA with LPS Keces P8, another LPSs on router and switch. 

 

I removed everything when I heard the difference compared to the PC i9 9900k plugged directly into USB in the Dac. 

Sounds noticeably better.

 

May/Spring 3 KTE USB input is truly works wonders! 

 

Now I use GentooPlayer OS (Linux OS with a myriad of options and customizations.  You can simply activate or deactivate different servers like HQP desktop or Embedded, LMS, Roon, mpd, different players, kernels, ram system etc .. You can really do whatever you want, the.  All with a spectacular and simple web interface, unlike Audiolinux for example) and only HQP embedded  and olny local files, zero streaming service. I use the network only to control the player from the tablet with the HQPcontrol v4 app.  Once in play you can also unplug the network cable, so finally zero network influence! 

 

I will not go back for sure! 

 

On 9/24/2021 at 8:06 AM, Zauurx said:

 

I am taking the opportunity of this post to... do a little disgression.
I don't have a May but a Pegasus... no Zen Stream but an Allo USBRidge SIG with which I can switch from PCM 1.5
However I am interested in this Zen Stream to know if it could be better than the Allo (+ Shanti).
What power supply do you use it with?
The USBridge with GentooPlayer is excellent but this is true for many equipment until you compare them.
I use 100% HQP for DSD 256 / sync.gauss.long (or xla) and ASDM7EC (core i5 8400 / Win10 LTSC).

USB is silent to 170 dB. No jitter or noise.. So you must be listening louder than a jet engine to hear noise at all and need that isolation from Ethernet 

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@cammot:

 

I also like plugging the power cables straight into the outlets.

 

You found the solution that works for you, which is good.

 

The only time I can hear the clear depth perception in sound, as well as the completely natural harmonic presentation that I strive to have (same as vinyl), is if I do not oversample at all. Sometimes (with some 44.1kHz material) I choose DSD64fs... or 88.1/96kHz. 

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1 hour ago, Roasty said:

 

Ok I am somewhat relieved I'm not the only one.. 

 

Well, if you find a fix, please let me know. I thought it was my Sotm streamer and even tried reflashing a new sd card/firmware but the problem persists. Also tried reinstalling Roon and that didn't work either. 

Hi, I occasionally have "lost audio" with USB connection too. I just needed to cycle the input then the audio will come back. I use a Macbook Pro straight into the May's USB.

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1 minute ago, Extreme_Boky said:

I also like plugging the power cables straight into the outlets.

 

You found the solution that works for you, which is good.

 

The only time I can hear the clear depth perception in sound, as well as the completely natural harmonic presentation that I strive to have (same as vinyl), is if I do not oversample at all. Sometimes (with some 44.1kHz material) I choose DSD64fs... or 88.1/96kHz. 

Dac, amp or both?  I understand an amp may need more on demand current. Curious how a DAC is pulling so much.  Not impossible just curious maybe 

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May DAC has class A output stage. 60W is a lot... but it is a part of the design to keep R-2R and especially oscillators warm (sweet spot for the lowest phase noise). Also, class A circuitry has low distortion and it can be tuned to produce a pleasant H2 harmonic distortion spectrum (well know to valve-gear lovers)

 

The power cables I use are all solid core, mostly pure copper... but also a combination of copper ribbons and annealed silver ribbons. As my system became more revealing, I completely removed silver plated stuff (I had some silver and then gold plated solid copper cables as well... long time ago).

 

Amplifiers should not be demanding/causing the current surges directly from mains supply (except when you turn them ON), if their power supply sections are design correctly. 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

May DAC has class A output stage. 60W is a lot... but it is a part of the design to keep R-2R and especially oscillators warm (sweet spot for the lowest phase noise). Also, class A circuitry has low distortion and it can be tuned to produce a pleasant H2 harmonic distortion spectrum (well know to valve-gear lovers)

 

The power cables I use are all solid core, mostly pure copper... but also a combination of copper ribbons and annealed silver ribbons. As my system became more revealing, I completely removed silver plated stuff (I had some silver and then gold plated solid copper cables as well... long time ago).

 

Amplifiers should not be demanding/causing the current surges directly from mains supply (except when you turn them ON), if their power supply sections are design correctly. 

 

 

 

 

I use a cheap furman conditioner.  I was just wondering why some people prefer dacs and amps out of the wall 

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48 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

USB is silent to 170 dB. No jitter or noise.. So you must be listening louder than a jet engine to hear noise at all and need that isolation from Ethernet

 

While purchasing my low power endpoint I decided that the extra $49 for an optical port was a small investment to remove it from the list of potential sources of noise, even if it's not making much difference - particularly with the May. And it also keeps me from obsessing over threads that discuss spending thousands on ethernet isolation ;)

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45 minutes ago, ETWok said:

Hi, I occasionally have "lost audio" with USB connection too. I just needed to cycle the input then the audio will come back. I use a Macbook Pro straight into the May's USB.

 

Interesting. I have never once had that occur to me. I run USB from an NAA endpoint (or sometimes Roon Bridge).

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24 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

I use a cheap furman conditioner.  I was just wondering why some people prefer dacs and amps out of the wall 

 

I had my amp and the May plugged into a conditioner. I read a couple of others had found that plugging the May into the wall sounded better. So I tried it. And I liked it. As @Extreme_Bokysaid, the May has a power supply more like the typical amp than a typical line source. I can only assume that the conditioner was interfering with it in a similar manner - the premise is that conditioners/filters prevent realtime current demands/surges or something to that end.  I am planning to go back to the conditioner in a week or so and see if my impressions hold. The conditioner certainly wasn't *helping* the SQ - that I am sure of. I have left my other line/digital boxes plugged into the conditioner.

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36 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

I use a cheap furman conditioner.  I was just wondering why some people prefer dacs and amps out of the wall 

It is to do with how each HiFi audio unit interferes with others, predominantly via the same, ground wire - back towards the main junction point (where your power meter is...and then further back towards the transformer station)  

 

... if a same conditioner box is used, then a single ground wire (from that box) will be feeding the cumulative rubbish back towards the mains power outlet (wall outlet)

 

However, if you choose a separate power outlets in the wall, the amount of ground feed will double. In this case, the more - the merrier. 

 

Also, the ground leads should be large in diameter, and the lead should be multistrands... So, in this case, the solid core (for ground wire) is not a good option.

 

 

 

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Trit

5 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

It is to do with how each HiFi audio unit interferes with others, predominantly via the same, ground wire - back towards the main junction point (where your power meter is...and then further back towards the transformer station)  

 

... if a same conditioner box is used, then a single ground wire (from that box) will be feeding the cumulative rubbish back towards the main junction point.

 

However, if you choose a separate power outlets in the wall, the amount of ground feed will double. In this case, the more - the merrier. 

 

Also, the ground leads should be large in diameter, and the lead should be multistrands... So, in this case, the solid core (for ground wire) is not a good option.

 

 

 

Truthfully don't know if I ever have noticed a difference or looked for one 

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9 hours ago, Phil_Bog said:

No idea I'm afraid - it's not a spec listed by HeadAmp (it's a GS-X Mini).

I would genuily be surprised if the GS-X Mini has issues with a DAC that outputs 6V. I've ran HeadAmp's other offerings (BHSE and GS-X Mk2) with such dacs for many years (and counting).

 

Considering the GS-X Mini is actually a newer product than what I have here, I doubt it's an issue. I *might* have the Mini at my place in a few weeks, so then can know for sure :)

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On 9/24/2021 at 7:30 AM, ted_b said:

You tell us. There is no bigger DSD fan than me but on the May I love PCM staying PCM and playing at 32fs. Ymmv

@ted_b Thank you very much for your above sharing earlier. I have similiar query or uncertainty for long time before reading your message.

 

It is because I have also found that playing music in PCM on May is outstanding probably due to its R2R architecture and extremely low THD+N level. However, I also enjoy very much playing music in DSD on T+A DAC 8 DSD by using HQPlayer. My feeling is that the SQ from the DSD side of May may not be as good as that of T+A DAC 8 DSD. Although playing music in PCM on May is very good, it seems lacking the holographic or 3D feeling of playing music in DSD by HQP. How would you compare it with playing music in DSD on T+A DAC 8 DSD?

 

I would like to seek for kind sharing or comment on this issue. Thanks.

 

BTW, what did you mean by playing 32fs PCM on May? Thanks again. Cheers. 

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