HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[Extreme_Boky]

The price of "tuned" versions seemed excessive to me. In addition, any tuning should be done once the player is inserted into the rest of the system, where it creates a musical presentation, a synergy that should blend with the room and suit individual need of the listener (owner). As such, applying the mods a priori will never yield the desired outcome. It's much better to do the final tuning with a blend of different interconnects, power cables and speaker cables, but only once the DAC becomes a part of the whole system.

 

 

 

 

[kimgg]

2 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

I ordered my May DAC L2 from Wildism Audio HK. Jo was exceptionally friendly and quick in his replies; he was replying to my emails pretty much straight away as I was clicking on "send" button.

 

But the mazing thing happened when I ordered the DAC (from Hong Kong), and then received it in Sydney... after 4-5 working days. Stunning. Jo also found time to check the unit and confirm it was working correctly before he shipped it.

 

 

I also ordered my May L2 from Jo. Paid on Monday, shipped out on Tue and I received on Fri after lunch.

He sent me all the videos testing all connections through whatsapp. 

 

I did ask about L3 but he recommended L2 as he says L3 only 3 parts difference (2 caps, fuse and some wiring) but it will cost HKD7-8K more. 

 

I replaced Holo Spring 2 with May and I can already hear improvements even though it is still running in. Quieter, better micro details and staging. But May runs much hotter than Spring2. Jo did mention May is dual mono so it will be hotter. Make sure you all have good ventilation.

 

 

[Extreme_Boky]

Nice! May sounds good straight out of the box. The funny thing is... I kept listening to it for a moth - moth and a half.... and thought to myself that the burn-in effect is not going to happen... buy it actually did. The sound suddenly became fuller, more relaxed, the bass gained extension, and the highs became even more crystal clear and natural. I do not know how and why exactly..., but be patient and it will happen for sure. It just proves what everybody keeps saying (Jo mentioned this as well few times in his email replies to me), that May needs 500 hours to start sounding at its best.

 

 

[Hiker]

7 hours ago, scintilla said:

Call me cynical if you will, but the L3 versions from any distributor look exactly to me just like a way for a distributor to increase their profit-per-unit over factory designs with essentially cosmetic additions that are characterized as proprietary "tuning" and "voicing" which is purported to be unique and vastly improving.  Nope.  Not buying it. Jeff already knew what he was doing when he designed the May and applying lipstick for an up-sell might be smart business for the distributors for the gullible, well-heeled or neurotic but it is hardly necessary at this maturity of design; those dac covers are magnetically permeable and also will not resist RF but they sure are pretty. You spends yer moneys and you takes yer chances.  Caveat emptor.

Sure however you do not know that for sure at best your guessing,

 

The L2 May to the KTE model there’s a $700.00 and change difference.....I’m neither well healed nor neurotic maybe a little OCD infection its telling me to spend that extra or suffer later ,... if later on several people did direct comparisons between the L2 May and KTE and found little or no differences , oh well , it’s $700.00 , as crazy as that may sound to you I have lengths of wire connecting my components and speakers that cost a lot more then $700.00.

 

[lpost]

I'm sure we all come at this decision from different points of view and positions in life. I decided on the KTE version for much the same reason as @Hiker

 

I have experienced how 'better' components can and do improve the sound. Not so much from a tuning perspective, and choosing to use the word tuned probably isn't the best, but from a clarity, extension, hearing deeper into the recording.

 

I also have the means to help support boutique makers like Jeff and company. I don't mind giving them a bit more profit to enable them to keep doing what they do! I bought a Pink Faun server 3 years ago for the same motives. I could have built my own PC and added several great power supplies but I liked their execution and wanted to help support the effort, the work, their livelihood. I still enjoy the PF every single day.

 

I've had a very successful 30 year career, saved aggressively and invested 'lucky' mostly. My position in life affords me these simple pleasures or excesses if you will. I'm confident any level of May will sound absolutely fabulous and without living for weeks with more than one version I'm also confident I likely could never tell the difference.

 

Are they creating levels to generate more profit? I sure hope so. It's good for business!

 

Enjoy the music my friends.

[Hiker]

I finally heard back from the dealer , my order is in for the May KTE dac ,..

[Diavolo]

23 minutes ago, Hiker said:

I finally heard back from the dealer , my order is in for the May KTE dac ,..

Congrats sir. 

[Diavolo]

Anyone see the ZSounds Review on YouTube! Made me laugh at his hypocrisy. 😁 

[John Hughes]

17 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

Anyone see the ZSounds Review on YouTube! Made me laugh at his hypocrisy. 😁 

I always thought he is nuts, what a troll! I've watch a few of his reviews, and some of the stuff he states about audio and products is just so misguided.  He really just likes a lot of buttons and functions and shiny objects.  I've disagreed with his findings on the few things he has reviewed that I know. 

[lpost]

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

I finally heard back from the dealer , my order is in for the May KTE dac ,..

Who did you order through? Tim at Kitsune or a dealer in Canada?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I tried to contact Kitsune to get a DAC for review but no response yet. Perhaps sales are really good :~)

[Diavolo]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I tried to contact Kitsune to get a DAC for review but no response yet. Perhaps sales are really good :~)

Yeah, Tim must be very busy.  He's not replied to me and it's been a few days.  

[GoldenOne]

TLDR: 
- May's PLL is incredible, and even optical from my PC outperforms dedicated DDCs by orders of magnitude with it enabled.
- May's internal USB is also absolutely fantastic
- Pi2AES is crazy good for the money, and outperforms the Denafrips Hermes DDC (I imagine having no USB in the chain anywhere is a benefit)

Ok, so I did some measurements of inferred jitter from a few devices using the may. May's own USB/internal DDC (this is the upgraded L2/L3 version), denafrips hermes, pi2aes.

(USB source for all devices was sotm SMS200 Ultra. ADC running on Raspberry pi 4 to avoid any potential windows USB problems)

Lets start with 44.1khz
- Pi2AES wins hands down here. With sidebands (deterministic jitter) only going up to -135dB, vs about -125dB on the hermes.
- Hermes additionally has a considerable amount more random jitter (shown by the 'shelf' which reaches up to -137dB, whereas pi2aes never goes above about -144)


 

Moving to 48khz
- Here its much closer, though pi2aes pulls ahead still. Both devices have deterministic jitter of about -143dB, however the pi2aes' sidebands are constrained much closer to the fundamental, whereas the Hermes has additional sidebands further out.
- I added pi2aes coax for a quick comparison here too. We get slightly poorer inferred jitter via coax than we do with i2s. With small sidebands below -136dB. I2S is definitely the better choice if your DAC supports it.

 

What happens if we turn on the PLL?
- Effectively, any jitter that I can possibly measure gets eradicated. With the may's PLL on, both sources show all jitter down at -150dB and the limiting factor immediately becomes my ADC's own accuracy. With the PLL on, its likely that actual jitter is lower than what is displayed here, but I'd need a state of the art analyzer + notch in order to measure it.
- I even tried the worst source I had (Optical from my PC), which was plagued with jitter, and the PLL just absolutely eradicated it.
- I tested may's USB implementation as well, and we can see that it's pretty excellent, with no clear deterministic jitter, and keeping all random jitter below -140dB. The USB performance did not change when the PLL was turned on or off. This means that May's internal DDC could potentially be considered better than pi2aes/hermes given as without PLL it gets better performance than either of them. However given as with PLL enabled, I2S interfaces beat it, pi2aes, i2s, PLL ON delivers the absolute best performance you could possibly ask for or measure.

[lpost]

Good stuff. Review prep?

 

I'm thinking USB shouldn't use the PLL whether it's enabled or not as the DAC provides the clock for USB. It wouldn't make much sense to PLL it's own clock...

 

Can you hear any difference between any of them or even the optical without PLL enabled? -10dB at -140dB is very low.

[GoldenOne]

Just now, lpost said:

Good stuff. Review prep?

 

I'm thinking USB shouldn't use the PLL whether it's enabled or not as the DAC provides the clock for USB. It wouldn't make much sense to PLL it's own clock...

This was actually prep for the hermes review. Though i'm currently waiting for a response from Vinshine/Denafrips on something about the product before actually doing that review.

May review will be coming soon, though i'll be doing the Holo Serene first :)

[lpost]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I tried to contact Kitsune to get a DAC for review but no response yet. Perhaps sales are really good :~)

I don't think they can build them fast enough to fulfill paid orders with the few reviews out there already.

[ted_b]

Yes I told Tim I’m hoping to review too. 

[Diavolo]

14 hours ago, Hiker said:

Sure however you do not know that for sure at best your guessing,

 

The L2 May to the KTE model there’s a $700.00 and change difference.....I’m neither well healed nor neurotic maybe a little OCD infection its telling me to spend that extra or suffer later ,... if later on several people did direct comparisons between the L2 May and KTE and found little or no differences , oh well , it’s $700.00 , as crazy as that may sound to you I have lengths of wire connecting my components and speakers that cost a lot more then $700.00.

 

My cable collection alone would buy a very nice new mid-size sedan. I agree, the KTE upgrade is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I truly hope Tim does makes an additional commision on the KTE because he earned it and my business. 😊 

[Hiker]

2 hours ago, lpost said:

Who did you order through? Tim at Kitsune or a dealer in Canada?

Tim , no dealer in Canada .

[John Hughes]

Its been my experience that Tim takes more than a day to respond to a new query, but will generally respond to an ongoing query faster.  Though he is not the fastest, he gives excellent support.

[John Hughes]

BTW, I recently ordered and received the Holo Titanis USB reclocker/filter, and Kitsune Premium USB cable. I am letting them burn in on my system for a while before I comment on them.  I have had good luck with Tims recommendations, so I am hopeful they will work out.

[ted_b]

I have a Titanis from Tim too, from a few years ago, and I really haven't given it enough time in my system, each instance I try it.  It seems those times were when too much else was changing in my system that I couldn't isolate it out.  But now that you bring it up, I realize I should install it into my Singxer/Holo/RAAL setup for now, and then give it some time.  These RAALs are so revealing that if the Titanis DOES have value-add I should hear it more plainly than in a larger speaker system.  Thx for the reminder.  🙂

 

Sorry for taking this OT. 

[John Hughes]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I have a Titanis from Tim too, from a few years ago, and I really haven't given it enough time in my system, each instance I try it.  It seems those times were when too much else was changing in my system that I couldn't isolate it out.  But now that you bring it up, I realize I should install it into my Singxer/Holo/RAAL setup for now, and then give it some time.  These RAALs are so revealing that if the Titanis DOES have value-add I should hear it more plainly than in a larger speaker system.  Thx for the reminder.  🙂

 

Sorry for taking this OT. 

So to bring it back on to topic, I have read that the May has the next generation of the Titanis circuitry as part of the USB input.  So it may not improve the May any. Just plugging it in cold to the May I heard just a tiny difference.  I have plugged it into my Kitsune Singxer U2 for my NVidia Shield streamer output (a pretty dirty input I imagine), and am letting it burn in there.  I think I do hear a difference there!

[lpost]

My May DAC is complete and with the carrier service. Tim said to expect DHL info shortly.

[Quadman]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:36 PM, lpost said:

My May DAC is complete and with the carrier service. Tim said to expect DHL info shortly.

Congratulations!  when did you place your order?