HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[John Hughes]

12 minutes ago, ted_b said:

John Hughes, you need to try HQPlayer sometime soon.  When you get the just the right recipe of filter and dither/modulator (especially if your server has enough gas to do EC modulators) you'll hear that it goes way beyond what Roon can do.  Roon is still a piece of this, but on another machine, feeding HQPlayer (the startling benefits of taking Roon off your HQPlayer machine is quite dramatic in my estimation).  Another nice thing about upsampling in general, and HQPlayer's upsampling in particular, is that almost all dacs have a sweetspot where they sound best.  Because Holo products like May can be put in NOS mode, it's easy to find that sweetspot(s) over time. 

I will definitely try it, I use the Parametric EQ in Roon for speaker correction. So I think I have to duplicate that with HQplayer. This adds another wrinkle to the mix. I have a powerful Win 10 workstation (Ryzen 3950 CPU and 32GB ram) for the Roon Core, so i have the juice.  I've not seen a comprehensive guide on how to accomplish this with HQplayer, just bits and pieces and forums.  Any pointer to good resources?

[lpost]

1 hour ago, Mops911 said:

IMHO, the best music always comes from small shops. Large companies always sacrifice music for dollars :-D

Not always but seemingly often. I also think it's important to support small innovators and yes this means waiting longer (or more time to anticipate) and potentially paying a bit more (though often less because the big distribution/sales machine isn't involved, yet).

[lpost]

3 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

 So I think I have to duplicate that with HQplayer. This adds another wrinkle to the mix. 

You can have Roon continue PEQ into HQPlayer no problem. However, I find that HQP plays 'cleaner' with PEQ and/or convolution than Roon but it's subtle.

 

Convolution is preferred in my experience over PEQ regardless of where the processing occurs.

[lpost]

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

.it’s now 4:20 so some of you know what that means ,.

It's always 4:20 somewhere! 

 

In case any of you have never heard the story of 420: https://www.history.com/news/the-hazy-history-of-420

[mrkoven]

Do you guys leave your May on 24/7? I'm finding that it sounds better once it's been on for many hours. So ideally I'd like to just leave it running 24/7, but not sure if that's detrimental to cap life or whatnot, maybe negligible? 

[lpost]

9 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

Do you guys leave your May on 24/7? I'm finding that it sounds better once it's been on for many hours. So ideally I'd like to just leave it running 24/7, but not sure if that's detrimental to cap life or whatnot, maybe negligible? 

The caps will likely out live all of us. They're not like caps of 40 years ago. Leave it on unless you're going to be away for a few days or more.

 

During the break-in period some find its advantageous to turn off the unit and let it completely cool for 4-5 hours every 5 days or so. Should speed the changes in the caps and other dielectrics but then leave it on all the time for best sound.

[barrows]

11 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

Do you guys leave your May on 24/7? I'm finding that it sounds better once it's been on for many hours. So ideally I'd like to just leave it running 24/7, but not sure if that's detrimental to cap life or whatnot, maybe negligible? 

Electrolytic caps do have a a lifespan, and ultimately will need replacement if one is sure they are going to use the component for many years to come.  Film capacitors will last "forever" unless subject to misuse.  Most other parts in a solid state DAC like this will last "forever" (virtually) as long as the design is solid, and the DAC is not abused somehow.  Me, I would leave it on all the time for better sound, and be willing to replace electrolytic capacitors, perhaps, at some point in the future-as long as I liked the DAC enough to want use it for years to come.  Buy a few LED lights to offset the  electricity used, or pay attention to turning off lights in the home.  And then I unplug if going away for a few days or more, for the protection of gear and safety.

edit: Also note that cycling the power to the capacitors is often the most damaging/aging thing, as the inrush surge can be stressful to the part-so constant power cycling daily has its own downsides as well.

[GoldenOne]

14 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

Do you guys leave your May on 24/7? I'm finding that it sounds better once it's been on for many hours. So ideally I'd like to just leave it running 24/7, but not sure if that's detrimental to cap life or whatnot, maybe negligible? 

Yeah I just leave it on 24/7. 
Thermal cycling is typically worse for components than being warm for long durations, and I'd much rather the DAC be ready to go at any time

[Johndubya]

Most of my equipment stays in standby mode. The digital stays completely on 24/7. The onrush of current at turn on will be much more detrimental than the wear to electrolytic caps over time. I probably won't last as long as the electrolytics at this point. By the way, most equipment failures occur at turn on.

[mevdinc]

2 hours ago, Mops911 said:

IMHO, the best music always comes from small shops. Large companies always sacrifice music for dollars :-D

A good example is ATC, still remain as a family business since 1975! They design and manufacture all the drivers and electronics in-house. So many happy users both at home and in studios. Many famous engineers and musicians use them such as David Gilmour, Mark Knofler and Lenny Kravitz and others.
 

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, John Hughes said:

I will definitely try it, I use the Parametric EQ in Roon for speaker correction. So I think I have to duplicate that with HQplayer. This adds another wrinkle to the mix. I have a powerful Win 10 workstation (Ryzen 3950 CPU and 32GB ram) for the Roon Core, so i have the juice.  I've not seen a comprehensive guide on how to accomplish this with HQplayer, just bits and pieces and forums.  Any pointer to good resources?

HQP added support for AutoEQ format EQ files.

Simply copy your roon filter bands in the following format to a .txt file:
 

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 567 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 0.23
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 4951 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 3.20
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 8250 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 1.62
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 15667 Hz Gain 2.7 dB Q 1.09
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 19848 Hz Gain 5.7 dB Q 0.37
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 23 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 1.14
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 52 Hz Gain 1.2 dB Q 2.47
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 1289 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 2.26
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 2037 Hz Gain 2.6 dB Q 3.78
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 3486 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 7.98

Then in HQP just go to Matrix -> Pipeline setup
Tick the "enabled" box, and then for channels 1 and 2 browse for and select the .txt file

Then hit play :)

[lpost]

I have ATC speakers, Holo May, NRG power cables, Iconoclast interconnects and speaker, and PS Audio preamp, amp and regen. Oh, and Pink Faun streamer. All are very small to small, PS Audio is pretty big but behaves like a small shop in that the customer service (in the US) is absolutely exemplary, above and beyond.

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, John Hughes said:

Hey Steve, congrats!  I am really curious what your experience would be to listen for a while without upsampling in the loop through HQPlayer.  The May does such an excellent job at Nos, I have found I prefer it to any upsampling that Roon can do (up to DSD512 or 384PCM). Nos was definitely more open.  I have not taken the leap to HQ player though.  Its been my experience that while upsampling can add technical merits to audio quality, it can also make it sound more closed in with less energy and possibly more synthetic.  Some people have been 'converted' lol.  

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

John Hughes, you need to try HQPlayer sometime soon.  When you get the just the right recipe of filter and dither/modulator (especially if your server has enough gas to do EC modulators) you'll hear that it goes way beyond what Roon can do.  Roon is still a piece of this, but on another machine, feeding HQPlayer (the startling benefits of taking Roon off your HQPlayer machine is quite dramatic in my estimation).  Another nice thing about upsampling in general, and HQPlayer's upsampling in particular, is that almost all dacs have a sweetspot where they sound best.  Because Holo products like May can be put in NOS mode, it's easy to find that sweetspot(s) over time. 

I've had my May since shortly after it was released, and have tried a fair few options with it.

I tend to prefer PCM one way or the other to DSD on the may. Both are excellent, and having a true DSD converter is great for native DSD content which I have a fair bit of, but for upsampling I prefer upsampled PCM instead of DSD. (Not the case with other dacs, this is specific to the may).

I've of course spent plenty of time with it NOS, but have also tried it with the Hugo M-Scaler, and HQP through various DDCs.
I find that HQP sounds better than the M-Scaler, and I tend to either use NOS or HQP sinc-M, LNS15 @768khz from an SMS200 Ultra.
I don't have a favourite between NOS and HQP OS, they're just different and suit different moods/tracks.

I do also have a pi2aes but the SMS200 ultra has 768khz support whereas pi2aes does not so I normally only use pi2aes with native content and other dacs.

[John Hughes]

18 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

Yeah I just leave it on 24/7. 
Thermal cycling is typically worse for components than being warm for long durations, and I'd much rather the DAC be ready to go at any time

THIS!

[MichaelHiFi]

Got my May as well. Congrats people!

 

DAC's are fun and interesting to burn in, especially within the first hour or two. The May was no different. Initially I thought yes, loads of detail, notes trailed off, a league better than the Lindemann although stage was flat which was to be expected with no time on it. So I listened and listened and I liked what I heard. I went away for about 30 minutes and sat, grabbed the tablet and picked up some very familiar songs from one of my playlists. It was sounding better and I was thinking "this could be very good".

 

My wife joined me as I started playing some of our favorite songs (this what about hour mark - maybe). The May started coming around (scared of my wife and should be, she's tough and very opinionated when it comes to evaluating gear) and she just sat and listened. 

 

About the 3rd or 4th song in after she joined me the May simply opened like a flower. As it opened my wife mentioned "this is good, wow". A few songs later she got inspired to listen to the first songs we tried when she sat down. In maybe the span of twenty minutes the May became wildly good. She was listening intently and was simply amazed not so much with what the May was doing but what the speakers were doing!!! I was fearful of the driving exploding forward out of the cabinet and hitting me straight in the forehead. My wife can TURN IT UP. It's hard to capture her attention over the years due to having owned some pretty damn great systems and she reminds me of this often enough. But we were listening to speakers I built from a kit (Danny Richie's Studio Monitors) and while I thought they were OK (after a very lengthy burn-in) they absolutely feasted on Kinki power and May digital. Admittedly, the Triode Labs Obsession PC cable on the Kinki and the LessLoss C-Marc Entropic tethered to the May helped. My wife was really enthused now. We stayed up late and mentioned the sound reminded of of the time we owned a pair of LS6's. These are line arrays of I might say legendary status (in many of my posse's minds anyway). Now she's picturing the Tekton Ulfberht. (not sure if it's a good idea to buy speakers I cannot pronounce nor spell) in our soon to be built audio room. 

 

Beck - The Golden Age from Sea Change simply spread itself throughout the room with instruments occupying space and now becoming more real, more nuanced, present in a way I hadn't heard from a system I've owned for many years. And perhaps the way instruments revealed themselves, I'd never heard better. Joan of Arc from Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat is a recording we would test regularly with gear we'd just purchase. In this song we have Jennifer and I believe Leonard Cohen sing in a duet. With the May you could hear the body of Leonard through his voice. Notes would trail off but not in an unnatural way. Radiohead's Videotape. Wholly crap! Thom Yorke's voice was so real in the room and the bands electronica or whatever the hell goes on in their studio is just a musical revaluation (not that it wasn't before) it was drug like. We couldn't get enough. On went Sarah Brightman Dreamchaser, a recording I thought sort of sucked. My wife would drag that CD to many audio shows and force the organizers to cue it up and admittedly, there were a few times it sounded pretty good. With the May in play, it took this recording to a new level. This recording can become a mess when Sarah starts singing her chorus while there is so much else going on around her, she just gets lost in their mix. Not with the May. It somehow managed to keep her in the song while conveying other essential pieces of the music. Even the bass sounded good in my room which sucks for bass. Neil Youngs Borrowed Tune from Tonight's the Night was just spooky. His voice on this album showed so much of what was happening in his barn, the death of the friend, stoned and drunk, mournful, his harmonica so right (I know, I have an harmonica ;). If you guys don't own this album, I just don't know what to say, you missed it.

 

Sorry for so much waxing philosophical, but I'm pretty jazzed with this DAC. There will be a battle coming within the end of the year. May DAC in one corner, Rega P10 in the other.

 

At this point the May is being fed from a NAS Synology DS216 networked, A Small Green Computer tethered to a Core Power supply all connected with Supra CAT cables leading to an EtherRegan with wall-wart (yes, no LPS, a $5 wall-wart) leading to a uRendu USB cable double smoked BBQ from Bill to May. Server showing up on Thursday, HDPlex 300W LPS showing up only God knows when and a dedicated Audio room showing up early this summer. 

 

Thanks to the members of this forum for pointing me back to the road of computer audio.

and I thought I was a detail freak...

 

 

[Diavolo]

18 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

 

I've had my May since shortly after it was released, and have tried a fair few options with it.

I tend to prefer PCM one way or the other to DSD on the may. Both are excellent, and having a true DSD converter is great for native DSD content which I have a fair bit of, but for upsampling I prefer upsampled PCM instead of DSD. (Not the case with other dacs, this is specific to the may).

Yup, upsampled PCM for me as well. 

[lpost]

@MichaelHiFiI love reading recounts, stories, like this. Thanks.

[John Hughes]

15 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

Yup, upsampled PCM for me as well. 

Are you talking about May's own upsampling?  I've done a lot of comparisons, and what I hear is that while the PCM upsampling sounds a bit 'crisper' and forces the ambience more forward it loses more subtle details and richness inside acoustic instruments. I listen to mostly acoustic-based recordings with real instruments, as opposed to electronic, and that might have more to do with my preference. The DSD upsampling sounds dull and saps the energy from the music to me.

[lpost]

42 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

I do also have a pi2aes but the SMS200 ultra has 768khz support whereas pi2aes does not so I normally only use pi2aes with native content and other dacs.

I wish I could find a PCI-e card with I2S and support for more than 192/32 PCM. I have the Pink Faun with oven clock but the limit doesn't allow the best from HQPe like USB.

[ted_b]

9 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

Are you talking about May's own upsampling?  I've done a lot of comparisons, and what I hear is that while the PCM upsampling sounds a bit 'crisper' and forces the ambience more forward it loses more subtle details and richness inside acoustic instruments. I listen to mostly acoustic-based recordings with real instruments, as opposed to electronic, and that might have more to do with my preference. The DSD upsampling sounds dull and saps the energy from the music to me.

I would assume that, like Holo's earlier wonder dacs like my Holo Spring KTE, the OS modes in the May use cheap DSP chips and cannot compare to even using Roon upsampling, let alone HQplayer or an outboard processor like the Chord M-Scaler.   May is meant to play at NOS mode IMO.  And yes, I would assume, again, that Jeff's great R2R design makes PCM upsampling (to PCM) a real winner.  I never liked crossing over to PCM-to-DSD.  I leave DSD in its own domain, upsampling it to DSD256 via ASDM7EC.  Can't wait to hear May's PCM at 32fs!  👍

[ted_b]

8 minutes ago, lpost said:

I wish I could find a PCI-e card with I2S and support for more than 192/32 PCM. I have the Pink Faun with oven clock but the limit doesn't allow the best from HQPe like USB.

+1  Wouldn't a PCI-e card that does what the SIngxers (or other decent DDCs) do, without all the extra cabling and power supplies, be a great thing!

[lpost]

I seems as though Jeff put the AKM chip in there just so one could hear it for comparison and promptly disable it.

[John Hughes]

3 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I would assume that, like Holo's earlier wonder dacs like my Holo Spring KTE, the OS modes in the May use cheap DSP chips and cannot compare to even using Roon upsampling, let alone HQplayer or an outboard processor like the Chord M-Scaler.   May is meant to play at NOS mode IMO.  And yes, I would assume, again, that Jeff's greaat R2R design makes PCM upsampling (to PCM) a real winner.  I never liked crossing over to PCM-to-DSD.  I leave DSD in its own domain, upsampling it to DSD256 via ASDM7EC.  Can't wait to hear May's PCM at 32fs!  👍

I have plenty of NativeDSD releases in highe rX DSD and DXD, they sound great without any upsampling :) I always buy the native resolution/format of the release.

 

[Hiker]

23 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I would assume that, like Holo's earlier wonder dacs like my Holo Spring KTE, the OS modes in the May use cheap DSP chips and cannot compare to even using Roon upsampling, let alone HQplayer or an outboard processor like the Chord M-Scaler.   May is meant to play at NOS mode IMO.  And yes, I would assume, again, that Jeff's great R2R design makes PCM upsampling (to PCM) a real winner.  I never liked crossing over to PCM-to-DSD.  I leave DSD in its own domain, upsampling it to DSD256 via ASDM7EC.  Can't wait to hear May's PCM at 32fs!  👍

This is one of the reasons I want to purchase this dac ,....however there seems to be dark forces at work that won’t allow my order to go through including anyone at the dealership return any of my multiple queries thus far .
 

The sites Live Support seems to have passed away ,...

[ted_b]

Thank you, yes our stuff sounds great in NOS mode, bypassing upsampling (for DXD) or running HQPlayer in Direct SDM mode for DSD (especially stuff our labels recorded at DSD256).  The new Eudora at DSD256 is pure!  😎