HQPlayer version 4 requirements

[brad225]

Can any of you tell me if the requirements for Windows on the Signalyst home page are for the newest Version 4? I understand they need more powerful CPU to run them 

Is there a off the shelf laptop that has the power and ability to run it? 

Like some others here I am anything but a computer savvy person so a ready made or someplace that can offer a build dedicated for Roon, HQPlayer and Qobuz?

My needs are for 384 PCM and DSD256 max. 

Even if I could find a clear list of the requirements that the laptop needs to have would allow me to find someone local to build it for me. I have seen a number of posts in different threads about different parts people believe would work well but no suggestions for total criteria.

 

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks Brad

[Miska]

It massively depends on your exact settings. With some settings, extremely small light weight computers are fine. And with other settings you cannot find a computer on the market today that could run it.

 

So there's no way to give even nearly clear answer without knowing exact settings you would like to use.

 

Laptops tend to be challenging from thermal design point of view. Because they are crammed into small space, cooling is active and fans are small, meaning that high CPU loads require fans running at high speed which tends to get noisy. It is not so great to have computer sounding like a vacuum cleaner near audio system...

 

[Account Closed]

For a light weight computer, I would stick with PCM only. DSD/SDM is going to be a stretch for almost any laptop. As Jussi said, the thermal load for DSD is very high.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

3 hours ago, bobflood said:

For a light weight computer, I would stick with PCM only. DSD/SDM is going to be a stretch for almost any laptop. As Jussi said, the thermal load for DSD is very high.

my good ol' MBPr 15" mid 2012 resists the EC treatment for weeks now @SDM128

on a cooling board, next room, while a NAA is connected to the DAC...

[brad225]

This is a screen shot of the current HP laptop that I was running JRiver and now Roon on. 

It is only an i3 processor so I'm not sure it would do much of anything. 

 

I won't know what settings I would use until I have it downloaded and running but I'm rather sure I will need a new piece of equipment.

 My DAC is capable of PCM 384 and DSD 256 so I would want a machine that would be capable of that.  

 

Can you tell me what I need to look for based on that. If you need more information from me please ask. 

 

I have looked through many threads with people talking about what hardware they use but I have no idea what 90% of it means. 

 

Thanks

[ericuco]

On 9/21/2019 at 12:18 PM, brad225 said:

Can any of you tell me if the requirements for Windows on the Signalyst home page are for the newest Version 4? I understand they need more powerful CPU to run them 

Is there a off the shelf laptop that has the power and ability to run it? 

Like some others here I am anything but a computer savvy person so a ready made or someplace that can offer a build dedicated for Roon, HQPlayer and Qobuz?

My needs are for 384 PCM and DSD256 max. 

Even if I could find a clear list of the requirements that the laptop needs to have would allow me to find someone local to build it for me. I have seen a number of posts in different threads about different parts people believe would work well but no suggestions for total criteria.

 

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks Brad

 

Check out Small Green Computer https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/

 

They have purpose built music servers or can built you a custom server. They built me a custom fanless, 4 processor i5 computer that runs HQP with output at DSD256. Andrew is the owner and very helpful. Just tell him what are looking to do and your budget and he can advise you.

[rando]

If Intel stuffs all the little businessman's new laptops with a new processor for Christmas.  You might be able find a higher end gaming laptop on Cyber Monday for slightly less than expected.  Expect it to be reasonably loud upsampling PCM to DSD.  384 won't be any trouble with a modern i5/i7/i9.  

 

If this doesn't need to be a laptop your options are much larger as are options within your budget.  A rough spending cap and general depiction of needs/usage might help guide you.

[brad225]

Thanks ericuco I will take a look at Small Green Computer.

 

Thanks rando, I am looking to be able to handle PCM 384 and upsample PCM to DSD 256. The noise can be dealt with based on the location it will be in. As far as budget I have not set one. I need to find out what is available and decide from there. 

 

I am using a Synology DS1019+ >Ethernet> Net Gear switch> Ethernet> Laptop> USB> Playback Designs Stream-IF>Glass> Playback Designs MPS-5. 

From the MPS-5>Glass> Playback Designs Stream-IF> USB> Laptop>Ethernet> Synology to rip SACD/DSD disc to storage.

[Miska]

9 hours ago, brad225 said:

I am looking to be able to handle PCM 384 and upsample PCM to DSD 256.

 

Something like i9-9900K is probably a good starting point...

[brad225]

Thanks Miska, that is a big jump to get to upsample 256. 

 

To anyone, out of curiosity, how high do most of you upsample to?

 

Thanks

 

Emailing with Andrew at this time, Ericuco.

[motberg]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:10 AM, Miska said:

 

Something like i9-9900K is probably a good starting point...

How about AMD ?

[Le Concombre Masqué]

1 hour ago, motberg said:

How about AMD ?

i think that they are reports on this thread that intel performs better for HQP use.

 

but there are also reports that 9700 would perform as well as 9900 for HQP and  @Miska does not seem to confirm with the single suggestion of 9900

 

there's this offer in Europe : https://www.amazon.fr/Memory-PC-i9-9900K-Graphics-Windows/dp/B07L9TFHYK/ref=sr_1_8?hvadid=80745432846391&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvqmt=p&keywords=i9+9900&qid=1569481638&sr=8-8

 

not as expensive as I would have feared.And it's not Cyber Monday yet. But is the MB good enough for our ambitions* ? etc... the GPU is lean but that would not matter with Embedded that does not allow CUDA offload

 

And there's still W10, optical drive, HDD etc we don't need ; so there's maybe a way to find cheaper. BTW I'd take a link to the right machine or the right assembler in Europe ; (I'm the typical Mac fascinated buff not at all familiar with this world but starting to wonder about a dedicated HQP machine) 

 

*AFAIC : ext2 (or long filters coming)/ASDM7EC/any rate including DSD128 source/output 256 SDM with full range convolution

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

not as expensive as I would have feared.And it's not Cyber Monday yet. But is the MB good enough for our ambitions* ? etc... the GPU is lean but that would not matter with Embedded that does not allow CUDA offload

 

And there's still W10, optical drive, HDD etc we don't need ; so there's maybe a way to find cheaper. BTW I'd take a link to the right machine or the right assembler in Europe ; (I'm the typical Mac fascinated buff not at all familiar with this world but starting to wonder about a dedicated HQP machine) 

 

*AFAIC : ext2 (or long filters coming)/ASDM7EC/any rate including DSD128 source/output 256 SDM with full range convolution

 

Embedded does support CUDA offload on Ubuntu...

 

At least here there are number of smaller shops that can assemble a PC from the parts you want, if you don't want to do it yourself. Probably everywhere else too.

 

For doing convolution for DSD sources, I pretty much consider a proper Nvidia GPU must have, to offload the convolution computation.

 

[StreamFidelity]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

For doing convolution for DSD sources, I pretty much consider a proper Nvidia GPU must have, to offload the convolution computation.

 

Interesting! I assume that does not apply to PCM sources? At least I have no performance slump without CUDA.

I'm using the convolution for stereo and have 384kHz files (generated with Acourate) deposited. Mostly I hear with

 

convolution on / poly-sync-ext2 / ASDM7EC / 44.1 / 16/  2 -> 12.288M (DSD 256 x 48) / 1 / 2.

 

Great sound! Also with higher sources like PCM 192 / 24 there are no problems.

 

[Miska]

1 minute ago, StreamFidelity said:

Interesting! I assume that does not apply to PCM sources? At least I have no performance slump without CUDA.

I'm using the convolution for stereo and have 384kHz files (generated with Acourate) deposited. Mostly I hear with

 

convolution on / poly-sync-ext2 / ASDM7EC / 44.1 / 16/  2 -> 12.288M (DSD 256 x 48) / 1 / 2.

 

Great sound! Also with higher sources like PCM 192 / 24 there are no problems.

 

PCM is quite easy case, but when rate increases by high factor, the load also increases a lot. You may find it especially heavy for something like DSD256 sources, especially if those are 5.0 channel from NativeDSD or something...

 

[Quadman]

I run a AMD Ryzen 7 1800X, with Gigabyte X370 MB and a GeForce 1060 GPU.  OC my CPU to 4.0Ghz I can run several Filters with 5EC modulator at DSD256.  Since M, Closed Form 16M, MinringFirMP,  Poly Sinc ext2 can all be run at DSD256 with the 5EC modulator.  I have not tried the 7EC much.  My machine has WS2019, AO 3.0, and AF pro 8.4.  I use server in GUI mode but use AO for shell replacement with Roon Server and HQP.  My dac is T+A dac8dsd,  to my ears I still prefer DSD512 no EC obviously, to DSD256 with the EC5 modulator.  Its really not even close DSD256 sounds nice on its own then switch to 512 and the music opens up, comes alive and has more dynamics, pace, rhythm and drive.

 

I may later this year try a 3700X or 3800x with my MB and a faster RTX GPU like the 2060 super or 2070.  Hoping that setup will give me more DSD256 filters with EC7 and give me the elusive 512 non2s XTR filters.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Embedded does support CUDA offload on Ubuntu...

 

At least here there are number of smaller shops that can assemble a PC from the parts you want, if you don't want to do it yourself. Probably everywhere else too.

 

For doing convolution for DSD sources, I pretty much consider a proper Nvidia GPU must have, to offload the convolution computation.

 

omg ! then I must forget about the beauty of booting Embedded/HQPOs from a stick (so easy !) and install a third partition on my Mac in order to trial Ubuntu...

[Miska]

1 minute ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

omg ! then I must forget about the beauty of booting Embedded/HQPOs from a stick (so easy !) and install a third partition on my Mac in order to trial Ubuntu...

 

I just wish there would be someone building servers with Nvidia GPU and HQPlayer Embedded preinstalled...

 

[ambre]

Dear Miska, Jussy

 

What about the latest Apple Mac mini 6-Core?

• 3.2GHz 6-core Intel Core i7
• Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz
• 12MB shared L3 cache

Is that enough to run DSD native on HQP 4.XX?

 

I am now running on Mac mini I7 / 2.3 Ghz / 16 GB version that is capable running DSD 256 but most of the times no 512 DSD despite of the special filters that are available the so-called -S  filers etc.

 

I am using Allo USbridge and Project Pre Box S2 Digital  as DAC with an Uptone Regen as re-clocker.

Any experience with the latest Mac mini 2019 and the new HQP 4.0 till so far?

 

Thanks in advance

 

[Miska]

It is very hard to say about a particular machine without trying the exact same machine. My old 2011 Mac Mini can only do DSD128 (HyperThreaded dual-core i5). A bit newer quad-core i5 2012 iMac can do DSD256. Both with the non-EC modulators. I'm just finishing upgrade to latest 2019 iMac with i9-9900K (my new development machine to replace the 2012 iMac).

 

Some of the older Mac Mini models are dual-core (although HyperThreaded), which limits the performance quite a lot. Not so different from many Intel NUC models.

 

I would expect those newer 4-core and 6-core models to do DSD512 with non-EC modulators and -2s filters. But obviously I cannot promise.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

How about heat with either the mini or the iMac when running ext2/EC ASDM7EC to DSD 256 ?

 

Is there now a way to boot a HQPOS stick on newer Mac ?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

How about heat with either the mini or the iMac when running ext2/EC ASDM7EC to DSD 256 ?

 

 

Not surprise, but poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC working fine to DSD256 on the iMac.

 

I can hear the cooling fan, so not quiet. But some other tasks have been spinning the fan much faster, so not so bad. This is however always a problem with such tightly packed small computers. So it is not nearly as quiet as the PCs I've built.

 

1 hour ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

Is there now a way to boot a HQPOS stick on newer Mac ?

 

I don't think so, for security reasons Apple wants Macs to run only macOS and Windows. But on the other hand I don't see a point to buy Mac hardware to run HQPlayer OS, you can get better hardware for that purpose for cheaper...

 

 

P.S. For those who wonder why I always play ABBA... It is one of the first in alphabetic order, and I have to listen these thousands of times, so I don't want to wear out any better music for such...

 

[Account Closed]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

 

Not surprise, but poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC working fine to DSD256 on the iMac.

 

I can hear the cooling fan, so not quiet. But some other tasks have been spinning the fan much faster, so not so bad. This is however always a problem with such tightly packed small computers. So it is not nearly as quiet as the PCs I've built.

 

 

I don't think so, for security reasons Apple wants Macs to run only macOS and Windows. But on the other hand I don't see a point to buy Mac hardware to run HQPlayer OS, you can get better hardware for that purpose for cheaper...

 

 

P.S. For those who wonder why I always play ABBA... It is one of the first in alphabetic order, and I have to listen these thousands of times, so I don't want to wear out any better music for such...

 

I just thought that you really liked Dancing Queen.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

 

Not surprise, but poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC working fine to DSD256 on the iMac.

 

I can hear the cooling fan, so not quiet. But some other tasks have been spinning the fan much faster, so not so bad. This is however always a problem with such tightly packed small computers. So it is not nearly as quiet as the PCs I've built.

 

 

I don't think so, for security reasons Apple wants Macs to run only macOS and Windows. But on the other hand I don't see a point to buy Mac hardware to run HQPlayer OS, you can get better hardware for that purpose for cheaper...

 

 

P.S. For those who wonder why I always play ABBA... It is one of the first in alphabetic order, and I have to listen these thousands of times, so I don't want to wear out any better music for such...

 

Thank you. My MBP 2012 is still holding (but for the battery) but for how long? and when it fails I'll still need a powerful Mac for heavy photo processing

[Miska]

55 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

Thank you. My MBP 2012 is still holding (but for the battery) but for how long? and when it fails I'll still need a powerful Mac for heavy photo processing

 

Mac Pro is probably fairly quiet under load. Like my HP workstation that doesn't make much sound, under load or not, it's acoustic signature doesn't change with load.