Audiophile Power Cables

[marce]

6 hours ago, Kimo said:

The tube amp came with its own custom power cord as an upgrade.  It is push/pull class A and optimized for 4 ohm loads.  Uses KT150s.

 

I certainly don't plan on swapping power cords on this one, but I was curious.  

 

My solid state amp is the complete opposite and came with no cord.  Each section is powered by high speed and low noise linear-voltage-regulators, including the high current drawing MOSFET output stage.  It is supplied by a tightly regulated supply with an instantaneous current capability of +/- 50A.  

 

I use a Pass Labs power cord on this one.  I am guessing that should be enough.

Yep, they are designed to supply lots of current to his class A amps, he does comment on it some where on his site.

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

there's that Bottlehead kit too

 

fun wiring project and you can make up your own color scheme

 

or substitute electro-welding for the usual SQ-killing solder joints used on most manf'd cables

Soldering on Low Voltage at the connections is very much frowned upon these days, favouring crimped connections, what evidence do you have that soldering is used on most manufactured cables, or is this just shooting from the hip?

[marce]

10 hours ago, One and a half said:

Soldering on Low Voltage at the connections is very much frowned upon these days, favouring crimped connections, what evidence do you have that soldering is used on most manufactured cables, or is this just shooting from the hip?

Strain relief is also very important.

Regarding solder cable connections, from a guide on 38999 connectors...

Quote

 

Reliable Crimp Terminations

A crimp termination joins the contact and conductor (solid core or stranded) by deforming the contact to physically join it to the wire. The bend or deformity is called the crimp. Crimp terminations form a lasting and highly reliable termination and are preferred over solder for mission-critical applications.

 

 

Some other methods, though joint fatigue is not mentioned and this is an important factor, even the stress of a hanging cable can mess the joint up over time.

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/93904-joining-wire-to-small-metal-parts

 

[fas42]

I'm guilty of doing sloppy soldering, just to get the job done - my systems are always in a state of experimentation, so absolutely thorough mechanical stabilising is not part of the scene ... but I get away with it, most times .

 

Which is why one can always improve the integrity, for better sound - if absolutely every aspect is carefully dealt with, then the best possible SQ can be realised - there are no limits, .

[Ralf11]

Have you ever been guilty of doing sloppy crimping?

[fas42]

Crimping's good, but it has to be done right - it's a precision operation, and if your sizes of materials and tool settings aren't spot on, then there's a good chance of having problems down the track.

 

Not good for doing experimental work, so almost never touch it - but fine for assembly of finished products, to ensure long term reliability, and consistency.

[Axial]

Hydraulic Crimping Tool ...

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, Axial said:

Hydraulic Crimping Tool ...

There’s larger ones too 😉

[JanRSmit]

On 8/25/2019 at 2:41 AM, fas42 said:

Crimping's good, but it has to be done right - it's a precision operation, and if your sizes of materials and tool settings aren't spot on, then there's a good chance of having problems down the track.

 

Not good for doing experimental work, so almost never touch it - but fine for assembly of finished products, to ensure long term reliability, and consistency.

Can you elaborate on how to do good crimping?

[One and a half]

12 minutes ago, JanRSmit said:

Can you elaborate on hoe to do good crimping?

Katie gives a reasonable explanation on you Tube. Use a ratchet crimper, less effort.

The correct lug for the wire is the main issue. For the wires in Audio, maximum 10 AWG use the yellow lugs. 14 AWG red ones. Ethernet cores, the white bootlaces where applicable, not in RJ45.

 

 

Also here.

[JanRSmit]

On 8/24/2019 at 9:17 PM, marce said:

Strain relief is also very important.

Regarding solder cable connections, from a guide on 38999 connectors...

 

Some other methods, though joint fatigue is not mentioned and this is an important factor, even the stress of a hanging cable can mess the joint up over time.

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/93904-joining-wire-to-small-metal-parts

 

Not long ago i have thrown away an AC extension cord with a box of 4 receptacles, because it became warm ( at the end where the cord entered the box) when in use. After opening it turned out that the wires of the cord were crimped to the strips inside the box. And these joints somehow loosened a bit, thus increased resistance, thus heating up. This was a extension cord of a well known german brand here in The Netherlands, be it over 10 years old. It had all the CEE etc certifications, etc.

So how do i know i have made a good crimping connection, and what is needed to make it last?

[fas42]

15 hours ago, JanRSmit said:

Can you elaborate on how to do good crimping?

 

I have never needed to do crimping with what I do, but have regularly come across articles, etc, talking of the need to be exact in how one does this - just did a tiny bit of exploring, and came up with a couple of links that deal with the procedure,

 

https://www.ttieurope.com/content/dam/tti-europe/resources/Literature/SupplierGuides/1473-TE-Connectivity-Good-Crimping-v3Web.pdf

 

https://www.etco.com/engineering-guides/

 

There's plenty of material to digest out there - if I was going to tackle a project using this method of connecting I would do the rounds of reading up thoroughly what companies, etc, had to say about it; and work out what I needed and how best to go about it from that.

 

Cheers!

[JanRSmit]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

I have never needed to do crimping with what I do, but have regularly come across articles, etc, talking of the need to be exact in how one does this - just did a tiny bit of exploring, and came up with a couple of links that deal with the procedure,

 

https://www.ttieurope.com/content/dam/tti-europe/resources/Literature/SupplierGuides/1473-TE-Connectivity-Good-Crimping-v3Web.pdf

 

https://www.etco.com/engineering-guides/

 

There's plenty of material to digest out there - if I was going to tackle a project using this method of connecting I would do the rounds of reading up thoroughly what companies, etc, had to say about it; and work out what I needed and how best to go about it from that.

 

Cheers!

Hi Frank, that part i know already, like your examples those are about (A-C) power cables, like in cars etc. But both articles do not show anything about longer duration.

Also what i could not find, are analyses of how these type of connections somehow add noise or distortion to the flow of current, or signal if applied in a signal cable. Or if applied in an A-C-power cable what happens when a power surge from the power supply is triggered.

I know from my past that copper quality of a conductor matters, so does crimp connections matter? Research into that aspect is what i am looping for. Will keep digging, but any pointer is welcome 😉

[fas42]

15 hours ago, JanRSmit said:

Hi Frank, that part i know already, like your examples those are about (A-C) power cables, like in cars etc. But both articles do not show anything about longer duration.

Also what i could not find, are analyses of how these type of connections somehow add noise or distortion to the flow of current, or signal if applied in a signal cable. Or if applied in an A-C-power cable what happens when a power surge from the power supply is triggered.

I know from my past that copper quality of a conductor matters, so does crimp connections matter? Research into that aspect is what i am looping for. Will keep digging, but any pointer is welcome 😉

 

A good crimp is a "perfect" cold weld - all the metal conductors are effectively mated as if they were solidly bound together, with plenty of surface area between the elements which is truly gas tight; no contaminants could work their way into those points where they are in intimate contact.

 

Which I would consider is perfectly adequate - no noise or distortion from this. Where there can be issues is if the strain relief is not as well done as it should be, or constant vibration and handling slowly undoes the mechanical integrity - what you apparently had.

 

I don't like multi-strand, in anything - consider that if just one of the strands of the cable develops, or always had a bad connection at one end; it now possesses some of the qualities of an antenna - and slightly imperfect crimping may do that. Corrosion from fretting, tiny movements of the metal surfaces against each other, is another factor ... every point of weakness just adds up.

 

My experiences are that if the integrity of the connection is mechanical well done, and properly gas tight, then even 'junk' copper is perfectly fine - I have no issues with the purity or type of metal within the run of the conductor itself.

[Ralf11]

soldering is fine, as is welding, crimping, even wire-wrappiing

 

audiophiles often make mole-hills into mountains

 

https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-of-crimped-connections/

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

soldering is fine, as is welding, crimping, even wire-wrappiing

 

audiophiles often make mole-hills into mountains

 

https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-of-crimped-connections/

 Not all crimping in commercial products Is fine.

 I have had a high resistance crimped joint in  at least one pair of interconnects and even problems with the crimping of an IEC mains socket where I ended up soldering over a poor crimped connection.

It was of the type where there was a connecting strip which was at FULL mains voltage and dangerous if not covered.

In Telecommunications I have also seen occasional  problematic wire wrapped joints on a PCM system backplane.

And that was is in a Telephone Exchange where the air is very clean with very few pollutants to accelerate oxidisation etc.

Many years later at Mona Vale in Sydney I had to redo a pile of soldered piano wire terminations that had been in existence for many years. They undoubtedly looked fine after being inspected originally.

 

[Ralf11]

Agreed.  I was responding to the post above re "A good crimp"...

 

A home system may have some cable droop, putting force onto a joint but doesn't face accerations like those on an orbital rocket launch -- or a car or military vehicle.

 

For a home system, the temporary (cable) connections are going to be more problematical than a permanent connection.

[fas42]

Unfortunately, if one is after 'magic' in the sound, then worrying about very last connection in the rig may be necessary - good crimping, good soldering may take care of the majority of those items ... but it is the very last relatively poor, bare metal to metal contact which just relies on a bit of pressure to maintain integrity that can undo all the good efforts done so far. I have never come across a situation yet where I have been able to "get away with" not taking enough care with overall system path integrity - I accept that this is a necessity; that it's part of the process, always.

[Ralf11]

you should write for MQA

[fas42]

MQA is being used as a workaround for some systems to "sound better" with many recordings - it's an example of using makeup, so that what you hear is more pleasant, in some instances. Not my interest at all - turns out that a really accurate playback does recordings the greatest favour, as far as listening pleasure goes - with the downside that it's not trivial to achieve that accuracy. At the moment, just forking out money to buy your stairway to heaven quite often up ends up with one trying to work their way up an expensive slippery dip ...

[jabbr]

On 8/28/2019 at 2:13 AM, fas42 said:

Unfortunately, if one is after 'magic' in the sound, then worrying about very last connection in the rig may be necessary - good crimping, good soldering may take care of the majority of those items ... but it is the very last relatively poor, bare metal to metal contact which just relies on a bit of pressure to maintain integrity that can undo all the good efforts done so far. I have never come across a situation yet where I have been able to "get away with" not taking enough care with overall system path integrity - I accept that this is a necessity; that it's part of the process, always.

 

The effects of long term inhalation of solder fumes may be responsible for this perseveration:

Quote

Lead exposure has been linked with various types of brain damage. These include

• Problems with thinking (cognition);
• Difficulties with organizing actions, decisions, and behaviors (executive functions);
• Abnormal social behavior (including aggression); and
• Difficulties in coordinating fine movements, such as picking up small objects (fine motor control) [Cecil et al. 2008].

Sufficient evidence in children shows that BLLs <5 µg/dL are associated with increased diagnosis of attention-related behavioral problems, greater incidence of problem behaviors, and decreased cognitive performance. This is indicated by

• Decreased IQ,
• Lower academic achievement, and
• Reductions in specific cognitive measures [NTP 2012].

Lead causes activation of protein kinase C (PKC) and binds to PKC more avidly than calcium (its physiologic activator). This creates problems with neurotransmitter release. Alteration of PKC function also affects second-messenger systems within the cell which may lead to future changes in gene expression and protein synthesis.

A large body of evidence associates a reduction in IQ performance and other neuropsychological defects with BLLs <10 µg/dL, including reduced hearing [Landrigan and Etzel 2014; NTP 2012; ATSDR 2010; Lanphear et al. 2005].

• Neurological adverse effects of lead in children have been documented at exposure levels once thought to cause no harmful effects, including those <10 µg/dL [Canfield 2003; CDC 1997a] and <5 µg/dL [NTP 2012; Lanphear et al. 2005].
• Low doses of lead can cause a broad range of functional problems such as loss of self-control, shortened attention span and a host of learning disorders that often cause lead-exposed children to perform poorly in school and ultimately to drop out [Bellinger 2008a; Bellinger 2008b; Chen et al. 2007; Wilson et al. 2006; Lanphear et al. 2005].
• Because otherwise asymptomatic individuals may experience neurological effects from lead exposure, clinicians should have a high index of suspicion for lead exposure, especially in the case of children with developmental delays.

Children suffer neurological effects from lead at much lower blood lead levels than adults.

• Subclinical neurological effects may occur at lower BLLs - at or below the regulatory standard of 10 µg/dL, in some cases - and it may not be possible to detect them on clinical examination at the time of the exposure or peak BLLs. Children often show no signs of lead toxicity until they are in school, even as late as middle school, when expectations for academic achievement increase.
• Some studies have found, for example, that for every 10 µg/dL increase in BLLs, children's IQ was found to be lowered by 4 to 7 points [Winneke et al. 1990 as cited in AAP 1993; Fulton et al. 1987; Landsdown et al. 1986; Hawk et al. 1986; Schroeder et al. 1985; Yule et al. 1981].
• Evidence shows that ADHD and hearing impairment in children increase with increasing BLLs, and that lead exposure may disrupt balance and impair peripheral nerve function [ATSDR 2010].

In children, acute exposures leading to very high blood lead levels (< 70 µg/dL), may produce encephalopathy and other accompanying signs of

• Ataxia,
• Coma,
• Convulsions,
• Death,
• Hyperirritability, and
• Stupor.

The BLLs associated with encephalopathy in children vary from study to study, but BLLs of 70-80 µg/dL or greater appear to indicate a serious risk. Even without encephalopathy symptoms, these levels are associated with increased incidences of lasting neurological and behavioral damage [ATSDR 2010].

In adults, lead encephalopathy may occur at extremely high BLLs, e.g., 460 µg/dL [Kehoe 1961 as cited in ATSDR 2010].

• Precursors of encephalopathy may occur at lower BLLs, such as
  • Dullness,
  • Irritability,
  • Loss of memory,
  • Muscular tremor, and
  • Poor attention span.

Less severe neurological and behavioral effects have been documented in lead-exposed workers with BLLs ranging from 40 to 120 µg/dL [ATSDR 2010]. These effects include

• Decreased libido,
• Depression/mood changes,
• Diminished cognitive performance,
• Diminished hand dexterity,
• Diminished reaction time,
• Diminished visual motor performance,
• Dizziness,
• Fatigue,
• Forgetfulness,
• Headache,
• Impaired concentration,
• Impotence,
• Increased nervousness,
• Irritability,
• Lethargy,
• Malaise,
• Paresthesia,
• Reduced IQ scores, and
• Weakness.

Late signs of lead intoxication such as slowed nerve conduction and forearm extensor weakness (wrist drop) are more typical signs in workers chronically exposed to high lead levels.

Childhood lead exposure is associated with region-specific reductions in adult gray matter volume. Affected regions include the portions of the prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) responsible for executive functions, mood regulation, and decision-making [Cecil et al. 2008]. These neuroanatomical findings were more pronounced for males, suggesting that lead-related atrophic changes have a disparate impact across sexes. This analysis suggests that adverse cognitive and behavioral outcomes may be related to lead's effect on brain development producing persistent alterations in structure. Using a simple model, Cecil et al. [2008] found that blood lead concentration mediates brain volume and fine motor function. As shown in Figure 3 (model uses composite data to represent areas of significant volume loss overlaid with mean childhood blood lead concentrations), lead exposure appears to have a larger effect on brain volume loss in men than in women, which might help to explain the higher incidence of antisocial behaviors among men than women. Overall, these findings may explain why children and adults who have a history of lead exposure have behavioral and other problems, and support ongoing efforts to reduce childhood lead exposure in the United States and other countries. More research is needed to support and expand upon these findings.

Figure 3. Sex Influences Brain Volume Loss Associated with Lead Exposure (Males left and Females right) [Cecil et al 2008].

A composite representation of regions with significant volume loss for Cincinnati Lead Study (CLS) participants associated with mean childhood blood lead concentrations is shown in red and yellow overlaid upon a standard brain template for males (n=83) and females (n=74). The model is adjusted for age at time of scanning and birth weight, using a cluster threshold of 700 voxels and unadjusted; ≤0.001 [Cecil et al 2008].

 

[sandyk]

59 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

The effects of long term inhalation of solder fumes may be responsible for this perseveration:

 

 

 NASTY ! 

 

[STC]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

The effects of long term inhalation of solder fumes

 

My friend who is doing soldering for more than 40 years did find some concentration of solder related substance in his blood and tissue samples. He is now regularly doing detox to get rid of them. But he is very level headed so far. 

[marce]

4 hours ago, STC said:

 

My friend who is doing soldering for more than 40 years did find some concentration of solder related substance in his blood and tissue samples. He is now regularly doing detox to get rid of them. But he is very level headed so far. 

Interesting, it is the flux that gets you, I have messed up lungs from rosin fluxs in the days before extraction.

[jabbr]

10 hours ago, marce said:

Interesting, it is the flux that gets you, I have messed up lungs from rosin fluxs in the days before extraction.

 

I’m sorry to hear that. You don’t, however, perseverate about the importance of solder connections for SQ seemingly above all else, so Im wondering what component in solder causes this seeming hallucination?