Rendu Support Thread

[barrows]

I am using the Signature Rendu SEoptical, and have no problems playing DSD 256 all the time.  I also play 512 occasionally, but I have found that 512 does not perform as well with my DAC(s).  256 usually ends up being the sweet spot for me.

 

I do not use any tricks, firmware 2.8 with all the latest updates, if you have not updated the firmware recently, be sure to do an update.  My set up is simple: Mac Mini with ROON-CAT 6A-Router-CAT 6A-opticalModule-optical cable-Signature Rendu SEoptical.  I also had no difficulties playing DSD 256 all the time with the Signature before the optical version.  I have also used HQPlayer, but just a  little bit so far.

 

Usually, if one is getting static/noise while trying to play high sample rates, the problem lies in the communication between the USB interface and the DAC, not getting on the same page when it comes to clock rates.  Make sure you have some buffer set for sample rate changes, such that the DAC has some time to establish a lock.  In ROON this buffer setting can be found by going into "device setup" and setting some time for DAC syncing, I use 500 mS.  Make sure to try with the most simple set up possible as well, remove the Etheregen for example, to make sure it is not causing any problems.  Also, make sure you have a good (verified) USB cable  (and no USB widgets) between the Signature and MSB interface.

 

[OldBigEars]

Latest issue with my microRendu 1.4 has just announced itself.  This has happened 3 times now.

 

Background is that my mR has the 2.8 card and generally works fine, sounds very good.

 

Starting yesterday...for no apparent reason....after several hours normal playing...simply switching from one album to another on Roon....the mR stops working.

 

Everything on Roon looks normal.  Everything on Sonicorbiter looks normal.  The mR is still visible and the DAC is identified as usual in App/Diagnostics. Repeat, everything looks normal.

 

Except the start/stop button on Roon has no affect. Opening and closing Roon...no affect.

 

The only way to 'fix' the problem seems to be to unplug the mR - and then restart it.  But the length of time between these fixes is getting shorter.

 

Here we go again....anyone got a suggestion?

[Geoff368]

Thank you @barrows and Andre for your considered replies. I tried your suggestions with the following results:

 

* Reverting to Sonore firmware 2.7, makes no difference

* tried setting buffer times to 500ms and higher, no difference

* tried out Nordost and Audioquest usb cables, no diff. Would a usb 3.0 or 2.0 be better for this application?

* bypassed etheregen and went strait to a gigabit router, no diff.

* My music is stored in SSD inside the Mac Mini, so storage speed is not an issue.

 

i can play dsd256 with no trouble, it’s dsd512 that is a problem.

 

My next step is getting my hands on an ifi xdsd DAC which can do DSD512 to see, to isolate whether the DAC is receiving a good signal from the Remdu.

 

Will report back.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

[barrows]

Hi Geoff.  I can play DSD 512 here without difficulty via the Signature.  Have you ever had DSD 512 playback working with your MSB by any means?  Can you test it via USB direct from a computer to verify that DSD 512 does work on that DAC?

 

It looks to me like you have tried all the relevant "fixes", and I now suspect something is going on with the DAC, if you could verify it works with DSD 512 via another source that would be helpful.  USB 2 cables are what you need, I am confident that most Nordost USB actually meet the spec, so you should be good there-I use a Nordost TYR2 USB cable, and it works fine for DSD 512.

 

Ohh, just one other thing to check, I assumed you already did this, but we should just check: Is the Signature Rendu set to output "Native DSD" via its settings in sonic orbiter.com for ROON?

 

I am going to take a quick look at the specs for the MSB USB interface...

[barrows]

@Geoff368,  I saw this at MSB's site as a description of the Pro USB, does your DAC have the noted firmware update which allows DSD x8?

 

Key Features

• 768kHz PCM Playback
• 8x DSD support*
• Full MQA decoding*
• 100% Electrical isolation between the DAC and server/computer
• Uses the audio clock from the DAC
• Supports ProISL cable lengths up to 1km without any loss
• Requires ProISL Input module in the DAC
• Will only work with current DACs (Discrete, Premier, Reference, and Select)

*8x DSD and MQA support require firmware updates in the DAC

 

I also saw this, which seems to suggest the source must be a "PC" for 8x DSD support:

 

-Fully synchronous to the DAC

-Offers 100% electrical isolation between source and DAC

-Works with most music server and computer systems that support USB audio

-Uses the ProISL interface with error correction and detection

-Virtually limitless in cable lengths (up to 1km) between the USB module and the DAC

-Works at rates up to 24/768kHz and 8xDSD (with a PC)

 

Have you tried contacting MSB directly and confirming whether DSD 512 is possible with a Linux based source?

[vortecjr]

10 hours ago, Geoff368 said:

Thank you @barrows and Andre for your considered replies. I tried your suggestions with the following results:

 

* Reverting to Sonore firmware 2.7, makes no difference

* tried setting buffer times to 500ms and higher, no difference

* tried out Nordost and Audioquest usb cables, no diff. Would a usb 3.0 or 2.0 be better for this application?

* bypassed etheregen and went strait to a gigabit router, no diff.

* My music is stored in SSD inside the Mac Mini, so storage speed is not an issue.

 

i can play dsd256 with no trouble, it’s dsd512 that is a problem.

 

My next step is getting my hands on an ifi xdsd DAC which can do DSD512 to see, to isolate whether the DAC is receiving a good signal from the Remdu.

 

Will report back.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

Can you post the output of Apps / DAC Dignostics?

[vortecjr]

20 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

Latest issue with my microRendu 1.4 has just announced itself.  This has happened 3 times now.

 

Background is that my mR has the 2.8 card and generally works fine, sounds very good.

 

Starting yesterday...for no apparent reason....after several hours normal playing...simply switching from one album to another on Roon....the mR stops working.

 

Everything on Roon looks normal.  Everything on Sonicorbiter looks normal.  The mR is still visible and the DAC is identified as usual in App/Diagnostics. Repeat, everything looks normal.

 

Except the start/stop button on Roon has no affect. Opening and closing Roon...no affect.

 

The only way to 'fix' the problem seems to be to unplug the mR - and then restart it.  But the length of time between these fixes is getting shorter.

 

Here we go again....anyone got a suggestion?

With Tidal?

[Account Closed]

20 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

Latest issue with my microRendu 1.4 has just announced itself.  This has happened 3 times now.

 

Background is that my mR has the 2.8 card and generally works fine, sounds very good.

 

Starting yesterday...for no apparent reason....after several hours normal playing...simply switching from one album to another on Roon....the mR stops working.

 

Everything on Roon looks normal.  Everything on Sonicorbiter looks normal.  The mR is still visible and the DAC is identified as usual in App/Diagnostics. Repeat, everything looks normal.

 

Except the start/stop button on Roon has no affect. Opening and closing Roon...no affect.

 

The only way to 'fix' the problem seems to be to unplug the mR - and then restart it.  But the length of time between these fixes is getting shorter.

 

Here we go again....anyone got a suggestion?

This is just a guess as I do not have access to your network. This sounds like a network/router and/or switch issue. Implementing Flow Control might help but it takes a switch right before the mRendu that has that ability and it also has to be implemented at the server end as well. This would require someone with some skill in this area. If you know anyone in your area that would be the best bet. There are also several settings in the router that could be the problem. Again, someone with network skills would be the person you want.

[OldBigEars]

2 hours ago, vortecjr said:

With Tidal?

 

I didn't notice if I was using Tidal when it froze (3 times).  Could have been - I use Tidal and Qobuz for most of my listening, although I do have a lot of FLAC's on my server too.

 

I'll see if it happens again and will check what kind of file triggers the freeze.  Right now, it's playing away happily - but I feel like something could go wrong at any moment.  I'll report back when it happens.

[OldBigEars]

2 hours ago, bobflood said:

This is just a guess as I do not have access to your network. This sounds like a network/router and/or switch issue. Implementing Flow Control might help but it takes a switch right before the mRendu that has that ability and it also has to be implemented at the server end as well. This would require someone with some skill in this area. If you know anyone in your area that would be the best bet. There are also several settings in the router that could be the problem. Again, someone with network skills would be the person you want.

 

I hope it's not that complicated...

[vortecjr]

13 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

I didn't notice if I was using Tidal when it froze (3 times).  Could have been - I use Tidal and Qobuz for most of my listening, although I do have a lot of FLAC's on my server too.

 

I'll see if it happens again and will check what kind of file triggers the freeze.  Right now, it's playing away happily - but I feel like something could go wrong at any moment.  I'll report back when it happens.

The reasons I ask is because Roon had issues with Tidal in the last couple of days.

[OldBigEars]

20 hours ago, vortecjr said:

The reasons I ask is because Roon had issues with Tidal in the last couple of days.

 

Possibly....no more issues yesterday.  Fingers crossed.

[Geoff368]

Thanks again for the suggestions. I delayed responding till I managed to borrow another DSD512 capable DAC, an ifi xdsd. Connected to the Sonore Signature SE, it plays DSD512 with no problems. Seems to suggest the issues I have may be in my particular MSB Select DAC unit. The folks at MSB have been very helpful and I will follow up with them. They tested DSD512 in their home office with no problems so it’s probably my unit. The MSB firmware is up to date. Same usb cable used for both DACs.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

[vortecjr]

My new DAC arrived yesterday and I was streaming Tidal via Roon/RoonReady upsampled to DSD512 without any issues for hours.  

[Geoff368]

The problem I have seems to be with my particular unit. 
 

The latest firmware update for the MSB Select has a new function to choose between using Native DSD or decimating to PCM. The latter works with DSD512, suggesting the DAC is receiving a good DSD512 signal from my Signature SE. But my Select DAC unit  is not able to successfully convert native dsd directly without decimation internally to PCM. I am communicating with MSB on this problem.

 

btw, MSB relates that most customers prefer the decimation sound to native.

[vortecjr]

15 minutes ago, Geoff368 said:

The problem I have seems to be with my particular unit. 
 

The latest firmware update for the MSB Select has a new function to choose between using Native DSD or decimating to PCM. The latter works with DSD512, suggesting the DAC is receiving a good DSD512 signal from my Signature SE. But my Select DAC unit  is not able to successfully convert native dsd directly without decimation internally to PCM. I am communicating with MSB on this problem.

 

btw, MSB relates that most customers prefer the decimation sound to native.

Isn’t that how a latter DAC should work?

[vortecjr]

On 3/12/2020 at 8:49 AM, Geoff368 said:

Has anyone had experience using the Signature SE with DSD512?

 

I have been enjoying my Signature with the MSB Select DAC for the last year.

 

Recently I upgraded to MSB’s ProUSB input which supports DSD512. While everything works fine up to DSD256 or PCM768, at DSD512 there is music+static noise. MSB folks were very patient and helpful and sent me a second pretested set of ProUSB interface.

 

My setup is:

Mac 2018 i7 6 core > Etheregen ip switch > Signature SE > MSB ProUsb > MSB Select DAC via optical link

 

Signature is updated to 2.8 firmware.

 

I’ve tried changing ip switches, USB cables, sending Native DSD512 files directly from Roon, and from HQPlayer. All give the same static noise.

 

Any help appreciated 

Thanks

 

Geoff

 

Send me an email with the complete output of Apps / DAC Diagnostics to [email protected]

[Mike Rubin]

How is the distribution of the SE 2.8 cards going?  Should I just go ahead and order one online? 

[Geoff368]

Went very smoothly for me. Arrived in a couple of days by mail then installing was straightforward.

[vortecjr]

8 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

How is the distribution of the SE 2.8 cards going?  Should I just go ahead and order one online? 

Mike if you bough a Signature Rendu SE or Signature Rendu SE optical directly from Sonore and have not heard from us you should email us. If you bought your units from another dealer you should email them.

[Mike Rubin]

12 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Mike if you bough a Signature Rendu SE or Signature Rendu SE optical directly from Sonore and have not heard from us you should email us. If you bought your units from another dealer you should email them.

I received mine today, actually.  Upgrade went without a hitch. Thanks to Adrian for getting it to me.

[vortecjr]

1 minute ago, Mike Rubin said:

I received mine today, actually.  Upgrade went without a hitch. Thanks to Adrian for getting it to me.

Nice...enjoy!

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Nice...enjoy!

I spoke too early.  I ran a firmware update, as Adrian’s note suggested, the routine completed, I rebooted, and .... nothing.  I can’t access the unit at all, using MySonicOrbiter or directly.  It’s bricked.

 

Back to 2.7?

[barrows]

9 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I spoke too early.  I ran a firmware update, as Adrian’s note suggested, the routine completed, I rebooted, and .... nothing.  I can’t access the unit at all, using MySonicOrbiter or directly.  It’s bricked.

 

Back to 2.7?

Mike, when you say "nothing", exactly what happened after the software update?

[Mike Rubin]

Nothing, quite literally.

 

 After updating, I rebooted from the OS and got the 45 second countdown.  That ran out the clock and the screen froze.  
 

Then, I hard rebooted from the power switch.  When I tried to bring up the unit on sonicorbiter, I got the attached screenshot.

 

I then disconnected and reconnected the power cable and hard rebooted again.  Same sonicorbiter page.  
 

It’s a brick.

 

I remember this happening to others before the SD cards were pulled temporarily.  I assumed that I would not have this issue with a card received today, especially since I had no similar issues with my two ultraRendus when I updated them.