New neutral/transparent DAC

[RamUwe]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a new DAC. The DAC have to be neutral and transparent. I know that this is also a question of taste and subjective hearing experience. But I mean neutral and transparent technically. I have 3 DACs in mind:

Crane Song Solaris

Dangerous Music - Convert 2

Forssell Technologies MADA-2a

 

Which one would you prefer and pick up? And why? Maybe you can suggest others.

[One and a half]

I’ve never heard of any of them, sorry, no comment !

[RamUwe]

13 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I’ve never heard of any of them, sorry, no comment !

 

Maybe because these devices are not only D/A converters. What's about the Mytek Brooklyn Dac+?

[RamUwe]

Crane Song Solaris

Dangerous Music - Convert 2

[Ralf11]

Maybe a different approach would work since no one here knows about these...

 

What price range and file formats are you interested in?

[davide256]

These are basically "pro" audio components... PA grade gear used where robustness, rack mounting and interconnection for  stage production are priorities, sold by

Sweetwater and other like band equipment retailers. Not audiophile grade, where SQ is highest priority vs tear it down and set it up again every day.

[RamUwe]

4 hours ago, davide256 said:

These are basically "pro" audio components... PA grade gear used where robustness, rack mounting and interconnection for  stage production are priorities, sold by

Sweetwater and other like band equipment retailers. Not audiophile grade, where SQ is highest priority vs tear it down and set it up again every day.

 

Oh, come on! Not that dumb "audiophile" vs "PA" argument. That's not convincing. These are mastering DACs and sound quality is just as important as road capability.

 

6 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Maybe a different approach would work since no one here knows about these...

 

What price range and file formats are you interested in?

 

Maybe the Mytek. Not more than 3k$. I've only red book flacs and some 24/192 files.

 

Maybe this is the wrong place for my question.

[Ralf11]

you might want to test drive the Yggy

 

there is one by RME that is also worth considering

 

I don't know anything about the DACs listed in the OP, but there do seem to be a number of things that high end DAC manfs. do which you could check on.  One recently mentioned was multiple transformers.

[RamUwe]

47 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

you might want to test drive the Yggy

 

there is one by RME that is also worth considering

 

I don't know anything about the DACs listed in the OP, but there do seem to be a number of things that high end DAC manfs. do which you could check on.  One recently mentioned was multiple transformers.

 

Thanks for the tip with the Yggy.

 

Are you thinking of RME ADI 2 Pro? What's about the Mytek Brooklyn+?

 

[Ron Scubadiver]

Topping D30.  It tests great and sounds neutral.  Separate power supply eliminates problems with noisy motherboards.  Only $120 and it has the SBAF seal of disapproval.  Check threads at Audio Science Review, Reddit and Head-Fi.

[davide256]

11 hours ago, RamUwe said:

 

Oh, come on! Not that dumb "audiophile" vs "PA" argument. That's not convincing. These are mastering DACs and sound quality is just as important as road capability.

 

 

Maybe the Mytek. Not more than 3k$. I've only red book flacs and some 24/192 files.

 

Maybe this is the wrong place for my question.

Always interesting to see blind prejudice...  if these DAC's are so good, why aren't they appearing at audiophile shows??  Why don't they have any serious reviews? 

 

Chord, Schiit, Mytek,  you can walk into pretty much any major audio show with CANJAM participation and have a chance to audition with your own headphones or some

of the best headphones on the market. .

[RamUwe]

19 minutes ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

Topping D30.  It tests great and sounds neutral.  Separate power supply eliminates problems with noisy motherboards.  Only $120 and it has the SBAF seal of disapproval.  Check threads at Audio Science Review, Reddit and Head-Fi.

 

Thanks for the tip. I will have a closer look.

 

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Always interesting to see blind prejudice...  if these DAC's are so good, why aren't they appearing at audiophile shows??  Why don't they have any serious reviews? 

 

Chord, Schiit, Mytek,  you can walk into pretty much any major audio show with CANJAM participation and have a chance to audition with your own headphones or some

of the best headphones on the market. .

 

Come on! That has nothing to do with what you called blind prejudice. I can say the same about you and your "argument".

 

Maybe they don't appear at "audiophile shows" because with so called high end one can earn much more money. These are all mastering DACs. And what is used for the production that can not be worse than high end, right? "Audiophile shows" aren't the measure of all things imho. So I ask you, what's your point? Maybe you should have a look beyond your overpriced horizon.

 

Quote

Why don't they have any serious reviews?

 

Are you serious? Tolle lege ;) The web is full of serious reviews. Maybe too serious for you ;)

[Ron Scubadiver]

In the pro audio sector the most used DAC chips are from CS and AKM.  It may be because these companies make ADC chips too.  ESS seems to be the most popular in the audiophile sector.  The D30 uses an CS4398.

 

At the high end there are a lot of proprietary FPGA based DAC's.

[Ralf11]

yes, put the Topping, RME ADI 2 Pro, and Mytek Brooklyn on your short list

 

I certainly would not buy based on whether a co. goes to audio-file shows.  But that brings up the question of how a consumer -can- easily determine what should be on a short list of DACs to listen to...

 

[1] Designs

There is a lot of scattered material on here about things that top notch DAC designers do to improve SQ.  But it is highly scattered.

 

[2] Consumer Reports

Another way is to focus on what actual listeners think - the problem there is that few real tests exist, and it is mostly anecdotal impressions, subject to various biases.

 

[3] Magazines

Here, the problem is advertising and "capture" by economic interests.  One major magazine has had a terrible fan-boi problem with MQA and its reputation has suffered greatly from that.  Magazines do not do real listening comparisons either.

[creativepart]

RamUwe, no dig on these DACs, I looked them up. One of the reasons they are considered pro-audio "studio" dacs, beside every one of them being rack devices, is that not one of them offers any RCA outputs. All three of the DACs you mentioned are lacking anything but balanced outputs. Which is normal for use in a studio. Certainly there are many consumer DACs that also offer balanced outputs - but they all include the more common RCA outputs, as well.

 

In audiophile consumer circles in your price range you'd find Schiit, Chord, Mytek, Benchmark, and a great many others and on computer audio websites you'll find Topping, RME, Pro-Ject, and others. But I think you'll find every one of them has RCA outputs.

 

In the ~$2,000 pricing area the aforementioned Yaggy, the Chord Hugo/Qutest, the Mytek Brooklyn+ and Benchmark DAC3 are all in the running for your review. Topping, RME, Pro-Ject and others are pretty much all $1,000 to as low as $400 ranges. But are no slouches even with lower pricing.

 

I'm in the market to replace my aging Benchmark Dac1 USB and while looking around picked up a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 Digital for $400 and it's been surprising good to spend time with while looking for the right DAC to replace my Benchmark.

[JDoyle]

5 hours ago, creativepart said:

‘...and Benchmark DAC3 are all in the running for your review. Topping, RME, Pro-Ject and others are pretty much all $1,000 to as low as $400 ranges. But are no slouches even with lower pricing.

 

I'm in the market to replace my aging Benchmark Dac1 USB and while looking around picked up a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 Digital for $400 and it's been surprising good to spend time with while looking for the right DAC to replace my Benchmark.”

Not a Lot has been written for the Benchmark over here at CA, but I encourage you to do some research on the DAC3... I’m very happy with mine and when paired with the Benchmark AHB2 amp, it checks all my boxes, especially for price and performance.

 

JD

[Panelhead]

On 8/16/2018 at 4:04 AM, RamUwe said:

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a new DAC. The DAC have to be neutral and transparent. I know that this is also a question of taste and subjective hearing experience. But I mean neutral and transparent technically. I have 3 DACs in mind:

Crane Song Solaris

Dangerous Music - Convert 2

Forssell Technologies MADA-2a

 

Which one would you prefer and pick up? And why? Maybe you can suggest others.

  The Fossell would be my pick. But the Crane Song seems to get the most love.

  If someone thinks having only balanced outputs is a liability especially using 1/4” connectors they are naive. A TRS plug for balanced output and a TR for single ended outputs.

  This is the wrong forum to ask about pro units. 

  There used to be a lot of prosumer gear discussion here; Weiss, Metric Halo, Benchmark, RME, and Apogee. Not much anymore.

[Sam Lord]

20 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  The Fossell would be my pick. But the Crane Song seems to get the most love.

  If someone thinks having only balanced outputs is a liability especially using 1/4” connectors they are naive. A TRS plug for balanced output and a TR for single ended outputs.

  This is the wrong forum to ask about pro units. 

  There used to be a lot of prosumer gear discussion here; Weiss, Metric Halo, Benchmark, RME, and Apogee. Not much anymore.

 

I think this is not the wrong forum to discuss pro units, though it's mostly unhelpful for pros.

 

P.S.A.:

 

On using XLR-RCA adapter cables between balanced and unbalanced gear, they can be bought pre-made but those are always built the wrong way.  They cause ground loops that increase noise, hum, etc.  Pre-made cables tie the shield to the outer RCA conductor (bad!) as well as the conductor connecting to the XLR's pin 3.  It is vital to connect the shield only at the XLR end (pin 1) and float it at the RCA end.  So either have cables built correctly to order, or mod them.  Ranenotes #110 covers this very well.  EDIT: Don't even think about doing the below workaround without knowing the grounding scheme of both units.  There is also a half-assed workaround of tying the two chassis together with heavy-gauge wire, but I don't like it.      

[Bdht]

I bought an older Audio-GD NFB-7 and am very happy with it.  I think neutral and transparent are good adjectives for it, along with powerful and fast xD

[buonassi]

4 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

It is vital to connect the shield only at the XLR end (pin 1) and float it at the RCA end.

this ^

[buonassi]

4 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

Don't even think about doing the below workaround without knowing the grounding scheme of both units.

and this ^

[Panelhead]

22 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

 

I think this is not the wrong forum to discuss pro units, though it's mostly unhelpful for pros.

 

P.S.A.:

 

 It is vital to connect the shield only at the XLR end (pin 1) and float it at the RCA end.  So either have cables built correctly to order, or mod them.  Ranenotes #110 covers this very well.  

  I build all my analog cables. The balanced with starquad. 

  The 3 pin XLR plugs usually have a ground connection and a neutral. I connect to all four with the starquad cable. No longer has the RFI rejection from starquad cabling. I feel the separate neutral and ground are more critical.

  The unbalanced cables are easier with less options. Always connect 1 and 3 when making a gender changing cables. That going from a four connection plug to a two connection.

  Used used to use locking DIN connectors. They have a ground lug also.

[WRWSTD]

There is very good information from RANE regarding  the "correct way" to connect components with what wire and what connector. 

Be careful of tying pins together.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

 

[lucretius]

On 8/17/2018 at 2:56 PM, Ralf11 said:

yes, put the Topping, RME ADI 2 Pro, and Mytek Brooklyn on your short list

Should also add the Benchmark DAC3 HGC to the short list.

[GryphonGuy]

On the "pro" side there is Weiss Engineering in Switzerland who make great DACs and ADCs in separate boxes. Industry loves them but they are pricey.

 

Digital Audio Denmark also pricey but have a great ADC/DAC box that I believe is now either a part of Protools or Protools has a product offering from DAD.

 

On the Audiophile side my personal experience of Chord DAVE is second to none in terms of transparency and timbre presentation.

 

I hope this helps

Regards

GG