Lies about vinyl vs digital

[kumakuma]

4 hours ago, Rexp said:

I see Barry records to aiff like you do Paul. Have you tried wav? Thing is, I tried converting your Chopin needle drop from aiff to wav and couldn't do so without ruining the SQ. 

 

Weird.

 

aiff and wav are almost identical formats with lossless conversion possible between them.

 

Did you double check the sample rate and bit depth settings?

[kumakuma]

10 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

It's simple connect-the-dots, right?

 

IE: A child's connect the dots drawing of the most recognizeable ship: Titanic.

 

One drawing has 50 dots(samples) that properly connected will render those four smoke stacks, the vertical bow, and S-shaped counter stern.

 

The other drawing: 500 dots.

 

Which completed connect-the-dots will more strongly resemble the Titanic's silhouette?

 

Translated to a DAC 'connecting the dots' to 'redraw' a  complex violin quartet, how does the DAC do it? In electronic terms?

 

Aren't there complex algorithms that prevent dots from being 'skipped'?  Or the wrong dots from being connected:

 

IE our Titanic has two realllllly wide funnels instead of four skinny ones, because the child(the DAC!), went across from the top of one funnel to the next one instead of back down to the ship's deck, essentially missing a few dots(samples).

 

Your "connect-the-dots" view of the world is incorrect but you are not the only who believes it.

 

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, The_K-Man said:

 

I'm not as simple-minded as I may appear to you.

 

Good to know. 👺

 

On the other hand, I am more simple-minded than I may appear.

[kumakuma]

2 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

Maybe an audiophile

 

 

What do you mean?

[kumakuma]

8 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

I'm still thumbing dude!  I guess I'm just not confident or happy to be typing on glass.  Been doing it for 7 years now, still feels alien to me.

 

I want that IBM desktop keyboard or Smith Corona back  😀

 

Buy a Bluetooth keyboard and pair it to your phone. 

 

Here's one that looks right up your alley:

 

https://www.qwerkywriter.com

 

 

[kumakuma]

6 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

But.... If the "flaw in the perceived sound" is a song or album that is a loudness-war casualty, no upgrade of listener equipment can fix that.  Nor can buying that song in 'hi-res'.  If it's an over-compressed 🦆 it's an over-compressed 🦆!

 

Just making sure all the audiophiles out there understand that.

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, The_K-Man said:

 

 

You clearly misoverestimate the intelligence and/or common sense of some folks.

 

No, pretty well everyone here, with the possible exception of Frank, understands GIGO.

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

When I listen to a 'normal' rig, it's obvious why most people think like this. It's like driving a car with a rock hard suspension, where getting around a corner fast is everything; and that makes driving normally in just about all areas of the road network everything from mildly unpleasant, to excrutiatingly uncomfortable.

 

I have "normal" equipment. Excellent recordings sound excellent, good recordings should good, and shitty recordings sound like shit.

[kumakuma]

2 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

But can you hear it - wayyyyyy up there?

 

I'm convinced: Inside every audiophile is a DOG.

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

It is for the most part. You'll soon learn who to ignore.

 

20 minutes ago, fas42 said:

"Digital dirt" is just an expression for that very typical distortion artifact that many systems using CDs, etc, are notorious for ... one of most extreme examples I came across, nearly 20 years ago, was at an "ultra high end" audio show - first was a vinyl rig, with beautiful life, vibrancy and sense of a real musical event; then the top of line dCS, three box rig kicked off, with Vivaldi - and it was a shocker. Bits of something scrapping across rusty strands of metal, luckily it was only on for a short time.

 

Unfortunately, the reasons for this are quite complex; there is rarely a simple explanation, that most seem to be constantly yearning for ...

 

[kumakuma]

23 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Intense levels of treble hold no terrors for me. Live instruments do this as part of their sound making, and this is a fundamental reason why live, acoustic music has such a powerful impact - that sense of intensity is something I do not want to lose; and if such is part of the creative mix of a track, I want it to be there, in spades.

 

Disturbing sibilance or shrillness in the playback are markers of distortion anomalies in the replay chain. If you 'sort out' the weaknesses in the setup, then the disturbing quality vanishes - because, you have eliminated the sources of the distortion artifacts. "Shrillness" is replaced with "intensity" - a vastly better alternative, .

 

 

[kumakuma]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

If so, then they are both absolutely incorrect.

There isn't a single area where well implemented Digital is unable to outperform Vinyl.

 

So you're saying they should ignore what they are hearing and just pay attention to how the format measures...

 

Sounds like you've just crossed the aisle to sit with the opposition.

[kumakuma]

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Have a good handle on what he has to say - like most in the field, he rates the quality of the playback as being of low importance; so I spend a lot of the time shaking my head when I read what he has written.

 

I'm sure he'd have a similar reaction to most of your posts.

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, lucretius said:

 

You got a lot going on there. Let me enumerate it:

1. Music files created on different equipment
2. Files played from different storage media (internal or external SSD, HDD or USB memory)
3. Linear vs SMPS PSUs
4. Different operating systems

5. Different ripping software

6. Ripped from internal vs. external optical drives
   
   You left out different playback software, so let's add that:
    
7. Different playback software

The "bits is bits brigade" is saying bit perfect files (delivered that way to the DAC) sound identical (same DAC, amp, speakers, room, etc.) even if 1,2,4,5,6,7 are the case.  I remember that #2 has been discussed and although there can indeed be different levels of noise generated from these different storage media, it is generally inaudible/negligible.  As for #3, any different power supply (it's not just linear vs SMPS) may pollute the output of the DAC; however, this is not always the case and I would hope that for a "good" DAC, the effect is inaudible -- yes, there are some really bad SMPS PSU's that should never be used, while many others will have no audible effect on a good DAC.

 

Considering that the "bits is bits brigade" is a stereotype created entirely by subjectivists, I'm not sure that you can define what claims it makes.

[kumakuma]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 According to John Swenson who has worked in HDD fabrication, that is not correct.

Noise IS stored along with the Data, albeit at a level he believes should not affect the results

 

You got both his job and what he said wrong but other than that everything in your post is correct.

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

most high end rigs do a terrible job with replay of them "bad" CDs

 

Which makes perfect sense because the equipment is accurately reproducing what's on the recording.

[kumakuma]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

If you don't trust a checksum to detect a file difference, you can simply compare them one bit/byte/whatever at a time.

 

That's what I did with the pairs of files that Alex sent me on a number of occasions.

 

They were bit-identical and I could hear no difference between them.

[kumakuma]

35 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Why are there all these remastered Yes albums? Because people didn't like how the original one, with "the guts, the verve, the sparkle, the depth of captured music" sounded on their setups - so, there was a market for the "baby food" versions. "Inadequate" is a subjective decision, not an objective one.

 

This is incorrect.

 

Remasters of most albums are created because the record labels know that music lovers will always buy yet another version of an album that they love.

[kumakuma]

Just now, mansr said:

The only times I've bought another version of something I already owned has been getting older used CDs to escape the loudness-compressed remasters.

 

Perhaps you aren't their target customer.

 

I, on the other hand, have at least a dozen different versions of Kind of Blue.

[kumakuma]

52 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Now, if you'd just kept your turntable.. 

 

No need. I've found a number of needle drops in the deep, dark recesses of the Interweb.  

[kumakuma]

5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I think vinyl is much more difficult to get right than digital, and for that reason alone a lot of people have moved away from vinyl. 

 

[kumakuma]

21 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

I keep forgetting that the name of this forum has always contained the word 'Audiophile'.

 

Fine, Ralf, enjoy the sound of your $10,000+ turntable & pre-amp combo, because that's all that must matter - not the MUSIC being played..  🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️!

 

As for me, I'd rather invest some of those $thousands in CDs - the kind guaranteed by the FDIC.

 

[kumakuma]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

 

I feel like I'm missing something when I play it on my tiny laptop speakers

 

Isn't your mind filing in the missing information?

[kumakuma]

18 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

 

But when I read in the Websters Dickshunairy that 'Nu-Q-Ler' is an acceptable 'alternate' pronunciation of the word 'nuclear', well let's just say my fireplace saw its first use in twenty-seven years..! 

 

Perhaps check your control rods...

[kumakuma]

57 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

? Went over my head

 

They are used in Nu-Q-Ler reactors