EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[tboooe]

14 minutes ago, barrows said:

Good quality fiber cable is fairly inexpensive, so it is probably worth it to purchase something nice.  The termination process for fiber cable is very important, so I would suggest that one purchases fiber cable from a trusted supplier who know how to properly terminate it.

Any suggestions???

[Lobbster]

8 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Any suggestions???

fs.com

 

kick a$$ service and prices. Based in Seattle.

 

Need to know which SFP module series is compatable - I had to get separate modules for Netgear vs Cisco - but they looked the same to me... 

[barrows]

18 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Any suggestions???

I did a little research on this awhile back, and my preliminary findings were that Corning "Clearcurve" OM3 fiber would be more than adequate.  But I have no experience with it.  @jabbr is probably a good person to ask about this as he has direct experience.

[octaviars]

24 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Any suggestions???

 

I will use Ubiquiti SFP module UF-MM-1G (Ubiquiti router feeding fiber to the new etherREGEN) and Ubiquiti LC-LC multimode fibercable.

 

 

 

 

[Lobbster]

41 minutes ago, Lobbster said:

Need to know which SFP module series is compatable - I had to get separate modules for Netgear vs Cisco - but they looked the same to me... 

Errr, it occurs this isn't correct - SFP is SFP - the main thing is to select the connector type & nm rating matched to cable. LC-LC seems most common, not sure as far as nm ratings go. But this is probably where we go OT from the switch discussion. FWIW I use the 850nm, but I've heard 1310 is better in some applications....

[Arpiben]

Basically:

- 850 nm Single Mode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances less than 500m

- 1310nm Multimode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances up to 10Km

 

SFPs termination are LC -> LC_LC fiber termination.

In industry there is no 'audiophile' kind of fibers (useless)

[barrows]

3 minutes ago, Arpiben said:

Basically:

- 850 nm Single Mode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances less than 500m

- 1310nm Multimode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances up to 10Km

 

SFPs termination are LC -> LC_LC fiber termination.

In industry there is no 'audiophile' kind of fibers (useless)

Hahaha!  How long will it take before there is fiber cable from AudioQuest, etc...

[Lobbster]

1 hour ago, Arpiben said:

Basically:

- 850 nm Single Mode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances less than 500m

- 1310nm Multimode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances up to 10Km

 

SFPs termination are LC -> LC_LC fiber termination.

In industry there is no 'audiophile' kind of fibers (useless)

 

You mean "normally"?  ?

 

[Arpiben]

2 hours ago, Arpiben said:

Basically:

- 850 nm Single Mode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances less than 500m

- 1310nm Multimode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances up to 10Km

 

SFPs termination are LC -> LC_LC fiber termination.

In industry there is no 'audiophile' kind of fibers (useless)

 

Correcting the inversion between single Mode and Multimode in my previous post.Sorry for that. (No single malt involved in the mistake)

 

Basically:

- 850 nm Multimode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances less than 500m

- 1310nm Single Mode Fiber and associated SFPs for distances up to 10Km

 

SFPs termination are LC -> LC_LC fiber termination.

In industry there is no 'audiophile' kind of fibers (useless)

[octaviars]

@Superdad will it be possible to wallmount the switch? 

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, Bricki said:

So, the power supply we use won't need to have its negative dc output grounded (JSGT) ?  I assume the ground terminal is for draining high impedance ac leakage from other smps powered devices on the network? 

 

The complete answer would take a bit to explain and I am rushing around getting ready to leave town with family to visit family--while first getting some orders shipped out—so here is the very short answer.

 

The ground terminal won't need to be used unless one is powering the EtherREGEN from either:

a) A power supply that does not have its output -ve (zero-volt "ground") shunted to AC mains ground (typical SMPS or even some linear supplies);

b) One of our UltraCap supplies (or a battery), as the output of these are fully "floating."

 

Every EtherREGEN will ship with the UpTone-branded 36W SMPS (same as what we have been shipping with all new-generation UltraCap LPS-1.2 units) and that is already internally "ground-shunted.  So when powering the EtherREGEN with that--assuming you plug its AC cord into a grounded socket--it will not at all be necessary to attach anything to the ground terminal of the EtherREGEN.

 

The part I do not have time to get into (and we even have to decide how much to reveal) is that the both the Ethernet magnetics and the PHY chips for EtherREGEN have been carefully chosen for, among other parameters, the way they are wound and wired, such that they both preserve some isolation between ports and that they block the path of high-source-impedance leakage that might come in on any Ethernet cable from the rest of your network connections.

 

[Note that the passive isolation I refer to above is not at all related to the sophisticated active digital isolation that takes place across a full data and power "moat" before the special über-clean 100Mbps "output" port (which is where one's DAC or streamer/renderer is meant to be attached.)]

[Superdad]

37 minutes ago, octaviars said:

@Superdad will it be possible to wallmount the switch? 

 

We'll have to think about that one.  Usually manufacturers put keyhole-shapped cutouts on the bottom side of the case for wall mounting.  It's not much problem for us to specify that with our enclosure company (though they do not currently do any milling the extrusions for us--just to the front/back, so I'd have to get a quote).  But depending upon which slot of the extrusion (top/bottom) we slide the board into (and thus which way the end-cap milling is done for the jacks, etc.) will determine how close the PCB is to the bottom of the case.  Might be too close and risky to have people hanging the case on screws that might touch and short out the PCB.

Every hardware store sells a variety of super-strong Velcro-like attachment tapes, that it's probably best that those who want to hang their units use something like that.

 

 

 

[Morph]

 One of our UltraCap supplies (or a battery), as the output of these are fully "floating.@Superdad  

 

So will an LPS 1.2 be suitable for the switch?

[Superdad]

19 hours ago, austinpop said:

Perfect. Well done! 

 

I will probably hit you up for 75Ω when the time comes, because there are more choices of good 75Ω cables, and I have more 75Ω ports on my Ref-10. 

 

But choice is best. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of impedance. Wait... ?

 

And who knows, maybe we will make 75 ohm the default for production after all! 

Or we could delete the BNC altogether just to make a point.  Though I'm not much for cutting off my nose to...

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Morph said:

 One of our UltraCap supplies (or a battery), as the output of these are fully "floating.@Superdad  

 

So will an LPS 1.2 be suitable for the switch?

 

Sure.  And we are making the input voltage range wide enough to accept 7V which was the top setting of the original LPS-1.  There are a LOT of those out there, and a lot of people either have or will upgrade to the LPS-1.2, so it seems like the natural thing to do.

 

But the truth is, the power networks and isolation in the EtherREGEN are quite sophisticated, such that it remains to be seen heard if an upgraded power supply will be worthwhile with our switch.  

[Morph]

@Superdad.

Excellent!

 Enjoy your family time.

[Bricki]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

The complete answer would take a bit to explain and I am rushing around getting ready to leave town with family to visit family--while first getting some orders shipped--so here is the very short answer.

 

The ground terminal won't need to be used unless one is powering the EtherREGEN from either:

a) A power supply that does not have its output -ve (zero-volt "ground") shunted to AC mains ground (typical SMPS or even some linear supplies);

b) One of our UltraCap supplies (or a battery), as the output of these are fully "floating."

 

Every EtherREGEN will ship with the UpTone-branded 36W SMPS (same as what we have been shipping with all new-generation UltraCap LPS-1.2 units) and that is already internally "ground-shunted.  So when powering the EtherREGEN with that--assuming you plug its AC cord into a grounded socket--it will not at all be necessary to attach anything to the ground terminal of the EtherREGEN.

 

The part I do not have time to get into (and we even have to decide how much to reveal) is that the both the Ethernet magnetics and the PHY chips for EtherREGEN have been carefully chosen for, among other parameters, the way they are wound and wired, such that they both preserve some isolation between ports and that they block the path of high-source-impedance leakage that might come in on any Ethernet cable from the rest of your network connections.

 

[Note that the passive isolation I refer to above is not at all related to the sophisticated active digital isolators that takes place across a full data and power "moat" before the special über-clean 100Mbps "output" port (which is where one's DAC or streamer/renderer is meant to be attached.)]

Excellent?. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm starting to get very excited by amount of thought and engineering you and John have put into this and I'm sure it's gonna sound amazing too ?

[R1200CL]

I’m wondering why not build part of the EtherRegen technology into the UltraRendu in a future upgrade ?

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I’m wondering why not build part of the EtherRegen technology into the UltraRendu in a future upgrade ?

 

Because UpTone Audio and Sonore are two different companies. 

[jabbr]

These days I am using singlemode more than multimode (both work) because the singlemode SFP modules use better electronics. I am also not using FMCs too much, rather hardware with SFP(+) endpoints ... note that you can get Copper RJ-45 SFP modules so easy to integrate copper and fiber networks.

 

fs.com is a good resource.

 

If anyone is worried about which brand of fiberoptic cable to use, first be sure to use singlemode SFPs  That said I've always been a fan of Corning. Nothing better on the planet!

[nonesup]

Hi.

I have an LPSU with a 12 volt output. and 6 Amp. You could connect to EtherRegen, or 6 Amp is too much.

[diecaster]

Voltage is key as it needs to be in the right range....the device will only draw the current it needs. The amp rating is what could be supplied if required. Amps are not forced feed to the device.

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, nonesup said:

I ave an LPSU with a 12 volt output. and 6 Amp. You could connect to EtherRegen, or 6 Amp is too much.

 

That power supply will work fine.  As @diecaster pointed out, a device will only draw what current it needs.  And EtherREGEN will draw about 1A (final current draw measurements have not yet been made).

[JohnSwenson]

Back on the "grounding" requirements.

 

The high impedance leakage from upstream components which use SMPS still needs to get taken care of. Whether you need a ground idepends on your connections.:

 

Upstream is optical: no leakage can get through the optical so no need for grounding, it doesn't hurt if it is grounded, it just doesn't need it.

 

Upstream is electrical, either copper SFP or one of the 4 ports: If ANY of the devices on the network connected with copper cables uses a SMPS (which includes almost all computers and network devices) then you do need grounding. If you use the SMPS supplied with the switch, it is already grounded, so no extra grounding is required. If you use an LPS-1 or LPS-1.2 then you WILL require extra grounding, we are supplying some form of ground connector to connect a ground. If you use a third party supply you will need to determine if it is not ground and provide a ground if it is not.

 

Whether it is grounded or not the switch will still work, the grounding is needed to get the best performance possible out of it.

 

The ports on the "network side" (the 4 Ethernet jacks and the SFP port) are designed so IF you have grounding, no leakage (high or low impedance) will make it between any ports.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

7 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Upstream is optical: no leakage can get through the optical so no need for grounding, it doesn't hurt if it is grounded, it just doesn't need it.

 

Hi John

 

If someone were to use a pair of EtherREGEN's as a pair of FMC's... with an LPS-1.2 on the most downstream FMC... 

 

...How does this leakage compare with someone using a single EtherREGEN + Uptone grounded SMPS, in your own personal 'preliminary' measurements so far... I'm not asking for published measurements yet, but I'm sure you've compared in your own personal measurements?

 

i.e. is the isolation as good as optical, in your early findings?