10 grand - what set up would you recommend?

[Lee Scoggins]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I meant what is the model of this memory player you are talking about?  Or are you just talking about a function of the direct stream?

 

Not sure I understand...it's a dedicated transport for playing CDs and SACDs and USB sticks through a front slot.  For $10K, you can get it plus the DirectStream DAC hence my thought this would be an excellent choice.  

 

I love the Chord DAVE as well but for $12K you just get a DAC which for many on this forum may be enough but I have 5,000 CDs and other discs so I need a transport. 

 

However, the biggest advantage of the DirectStream is it ability to be updated via internet downloads.  Very helpful since most DACs get revised every year or two due to new Sabre or AKM chip sets.  PS Audio is giving us a nice way to get off the merry-go-round.

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Not sure I understand...it's a dedicated transport for playing CDs and SACDs and USB sticks through a front slot.  For $10K, you can get it plus the DirectStream DAC hence my thought this would be an excellent choice.  

 

I love the Chord DAVE as well but for $12K you just get a DAC which for many on this forum may be enough but I have 5,000 CDs and other discs so I need a transport. 

 

However, the biggest advantage of the DirectStream is it ability to be updated via internet downloads.  Very helpful since most DACs get revised every year or two due to new Sabre or AKM chip sets.  PS Audio is giving us a nice way to get off the merry-go-round.

ok, gotcha..had to google to confirm....the model is exactly what you said ....

"direct stream memory player"....

[BigAlMc]

On 7/21/2017 at 11:33 PM, bigblue said:

• I am interested in a Roon based system. 
• SOtM 200 Ultra or Sonore UltraRendu would be very interesting but the total number of boxes, 6 in total (NUC+PS, NAA+PS, Reclocker+PS) will not fit my rack.
• If SQ would improve I would not hesitate to go with a Nucleus w music library feeding the endpoint. 
• I want to minimize the risk of having "issues" with the set up (drop outs, pops and cracks).
• The converter to be fed is the built in DAC of the Gryphon Diablo 300. It accepts S/PDIF as well as USB and AES/EBU.

 

Where would you suggest I go looking with a 8-10 k USD budget?

So far I have only 2 contenders on the list: Innous Zenith Mk II and Antipodes DX.

Would you say such a "one box solution" is a big compromise and the above mentioned 6-box set up would be far superior?

 

I'm going to take it back to the Ops original post way back in July for an update on my own journey here.

 

A few of @bigblue's original points are very salient for the path I've just embarked upon. Namely Roon based, 6 box solution vs 1 and having a DAC that's a non-negotiable part of the end-game result. In my case my PS Audio Directstream DAC.

 

A few things have happened recently which have caused me to re-evaluate and change direction. In no particular order:

 

• I've had a few issues and have got pretty fed up with crawling behind my rack fiddling with the mass of wires of my '6 box' or 'spaghetti' solution.
• I've been fighting with my server for a while now and it died on me last week.
• And cards on the table I've just been plain out coveting the Innuos Zenith SE for a while now. 

 

Anyway, my current server dying on me brought me to decision point. First tho I'd like to go on record saying that it's a great piece of kit and I still have a lot of admiration for both the products and support that the people involved in it offer. The fact mine died is just one of those things and the supplier is being very diligent about getting it repaired for me ASAP. However due to combination of the above factors I'm having it repaired in order to sell it as I am moving onwards and hopefully upwards. 

 

So I have selected and ordered the Innuos Zenith SE but these were the other contenders and I'll offer my thought process on why I didn't go there:

 

1. The SOTM Trifecta. Very tempted by this but the thought of replacing one spaghetti solution with another was just a deal-breaker in the end. I may well live to regret this decision in terms of SQ but I really wanted to simplify and move to a kickass server & kickass DAC combo.
2. The homebake sCLK-EX based server with motherboard mods by SOTM. Again very tempted but before the usual suspects pop up and tell me this is better/cheaper I'd like to point out I'm not disputing either of those claims. I just want a turnkey solution with manufacturer support because I don't have the knowledge to build my own server and am worried that one or more screwups (bad BIOS settings, poorly connected components, mishandling something and leaving electrostatic damage etc, etc.) could result in sub-optimal SQ and defeat the purpose of going this route.
3. The Antipodes DX Gen 3. This was the other main turnkey product left after I discounted 1 & 2. But the Innuos SE has both Ethernet and USB output compared with the Antipodes USB only. Given my DAC happily accepts Ethernet and USB then I felt the Innuos offered better future proofing. 

 

So all things considered I am still extremely intrigued in the SOTM Trifecta / sCLK-Ex offerings but as none other than the mighty Romaz points out on his review of the Innuos SE over at Head-Fi, the Innuos is a great choice for those wanting a one-box solution that don't want to build an sCLK-EX server or spaghetti solution. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. He also says he still prefers his sCLK-EX server but the Innuos gives it a good run for it's money. Again paraphrasing from memory. But that and the other stellar reviews were good enough for me and I've take the plunge.

 

Now I did wonder about availability as Innuos made such a big deal around the Zenith SE being a limited production run of 100 units only. I contacted Innuos and they told me that these are now being made to order only and the next batch of 10 was due in late January. Apparently the triple linear toroidal transformers are hand twisted by mountain goatherds or something (ok I may had made that last bit up ) but these are made by another firm and are the production limiting factor.

 

So this was a problem for me. My server is dead. And late January is a long way off. A really long way off in audiophile panic terms!

 

Now I praised my current server earlier despite it and I not particularly getting on recently. As my emergency solution I dusted down my old QNAP NAS drive and gave thanks that my laziness and general ineptitude had prevented me from following my girlfriends instructions about selling it on Ebay! Phew, disaster averted! But whilst I have music playing again the NAS (even with a basic LPS) sounds very clunky compared to the Audiostore Prestige server it's stepping in for. Locally stored FLAC just sounds heavy and clunky compared to the Prestige. Interestingly Tidal doesn't sound too bad. But suffice to say I am hearing a very noticeable drop in quality versus the Prestige. So despite this server dying on it's ass I have a renewed appreciation for the great job it was doing. Pretty ironic! 

 

So what to do about the interim wait until late January. Could I cope with limping along with a NAS, clunky music, no Roon and the old school feel of BubbleUpnp?

 

Short answer, nope! But talking to a couple of UK dealers about whether they happened to have a Zenith SE in stock led me to come up with the following interesting solution.

 

My Zenith MK2 arrives today . I have also ordered and placed a deposit on the SE for the late January batch. Upon the dealer getting the SE, I'll pay the remainder and they'll ship to me. The dealer will then accept the Zenith MK2 at a very nominal markdown from what I paid for it. In other words I'm paying a fairly trivial fee for a loaner Zenith MK2 to tide me over until the SE is available.

 

So ok there is a small hassle in terms of needing to setup two different servers within 2 months of each other and needing to package/courier the MK2 back to the dealer. But there are plenty positives too. Not least I get to restore hopefully great sounding music today. I also get to compare the Zenith MK2 to my previous server. Based on memory only obviously. I'm not expecting the difference to be very big but hopefully the MK2's higher price is somewhat reflected in SQ. We shall see I guess. I then also get to do a direct comparison of the MK2 vs the SE in January. I'm obviously hoping that the SE will kick the Prestiges ass in terms of SQ and given the difference in price it better do!

 

As per a few reviews (including Roys) the SE needs some real burn-in time so I guess I need to factor that in. But it will still be an interesting and hopefully fun experiment.

 

I guess that sticking with the experimentation theme I also have the intrigue/dilemma of what to do with my surplus to requirements spaghetti components. Obviously selling them is the standout answer. But do I sell them without testing whether any of them further improve the SQ with the MK2 or SE. The ISO Regen for example in the USB path. The SU-1 to offer an alternative USB to I2S. I hope that this is not the case because I am spending a large sum of money to try and simplify into a one-box kickass solution. But it would be foolish to not at least try whether the additional boxes I have on hand improve things or not.

 

Anway, that's the admittedly long story of how from in July to when the Op started this thread till now in the dying embers of November I have moved on from a six box solution to (hopefully) a one box solution. I stated a few weeks ago on this thread that I thought the Zenith SE & Directstream DAC would be a killer combo. Well I've put my money where my mouth is and I'm about to find out. Fingers crossed! 

 

I'll report back on the Zenith MK2 after a few weeks of bedding it in.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[firedog]

Alan-

Will be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the MKII. I'm considering it vs similarly priced alternatives from Sonore and Antipodes. In fact, where i live, I can get it for less. I don't like the fact that the HD isn't user upgrageable, but that isn't a deal breaker, as I mostly want it as a streamer. 

Anyway, I'd be very interested in what you think of it strictly in terms of SQ, relative to other digital sources you are familiar with. I can't afford an SE, unfortunately.

BTW, what is your present spaghetti solution?

[BigAlMc]

Hi @firedog

 

Yeah I saw your thread about Zenith or SSR. 

 

First impressions on the Zenith are very positive and it sounds very good out of the box. But I have it playing constantly with the amp off to let it burn in. Gimme a few days and I'll post observations on SQ. 

 

Current spaghetti is Microrendu on LPS-1, ISO Regen and Singxer SU-1 both sharing an LPS-1. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

PS that spaghetti may not sound too complicated but factor in an ethernet into the Microrendu, two meanwells powering the two LPS-1s, 2 DC cables, a Lush USB cable, a USPCB doofer and an I2S cable. Once you consider all that then the digital path between my server and DAC consists of 13 items. 

 

So bolognese it might not be, but spaghetti it definitely is. 

[thyname]

1 minute ago, BigAlMc said:

PS that spaghetti may not sound too complicated but factor in an ethernet into the Microrendu, two meanwells powering the two LPS-1s, 2 DC cables, a Lush USB cable, a USPCB doofer and an I2S cable. Once you consider all that then the digital path between my server and DAC consists of 13 items. 

 

So bolognese it might not be, but spaghetti it definitely is. 

 

I still fail to understand what's wrong with streaming directly through the PS Audio Directstream via its Network Bridge II (example: via Roon). Sounds bad?

[BigAlMc]

Fair and very relevant question. 

 

No, it does not sound bad. In fact it sounds very good. But I wanted that elusive 'more'. 

 

I started off streaming from a QNAP NAS. I added a server for Roon and DSP. I added the Microrendu to find out for myself if the 'product of the year' hype was justified. I added the SU-1 as I read a post by Ted Smith (the genius behind the Directstream) that I2S was the Directstreams optimal format. I added the ISO Regen based on the rave reviews. 

 

Greed or quest for perfection. I dunno. 

 

Most but not all of these tweaks made a small improvement. Whether each justified its cost is a different matter. 

 

I will say this. Going from that setup to NAS directly to Directstream via Bridge 2 was a definite drop. But then that pathway also cuts the entire spaghetti additions out. 

 

A wiser man than me would stick with the Directstream and bridge and be very happy with it. Unfortunately I'm still chasing more. 

[firedog]

31 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

I will say this. Going from that setup to NAS directly to Directstream via Bridge 2 was a definite drop. But then that pathway also cuts the entire spaghetti additions out. 

 

A wiser man than me would stick with the Directstream and bridge and be very happy with it. Unfortunately I'm still chasing more. 

 

And that makes you the perfect guy to tell us about an item like the Innuos.

[davide256]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:50 AM, BigAlMc said:

 

I'm going to take it back to the Ops original post way back in July for an update on my own journey here.

 

A few of @bigblue's original points are very salient for the path I've just embarked upon. Namely Roon based, 6 box solution vs 1 and having a DAC that's a non-negotiable part of the end-game result. In my case my PS Audio Directstream DAC.

 

A few things have happened recently which have caused me to re-evaluate and change direction. In no particular order:

 

• I've had a few issues and have got pretty fed up with crawling behind my rack fiddling with the mass of wires of my '6 box' or 'spaghetti' solution.
• I've been fighting with my server for a while now and it died on me last week.
• And cards on the table I've just been plain out coveting the Innuos Zenith SE for a while now. 

 

Anyway, my current server dying on me brought me to decision point. First tho I'd like to go on record saying that it's a great piece of kit and I still have a lot of admiration for both the products and support that the people involved in it offer. The fact mine died is just one of those things and the supplier is being very diligent about getting it repaired for me ASAP. However due to combination of the above factors I'm having it repaired in order to sell it as I am moving onwards and hopefully upwards. 

 

So I have selected and ordered the Innuos Zenith SE but these were the other contenders and I'll offer my thought process on why I didn't go there:

 

1. The SOTM Trifecta. Very tempted by this but the thought of replacing one spaghetti solution with another was just a deal-breaker in the end. I may well live to regret this decision in terms of SQ but I really wanted to simplify and move to a kickass server & kickass DAC combo.
2. The homebake sCLK-EX based server with motherboard mods by SOTM. Again very tempted but before the usual suspects pop up and tell me this is better/cheaper I'd like to point out I'm not disputing either of those claims. I just want a turnkey solution with manufacturer support because I don't have the knowledge to build my own server and am worried that one or more screwups (bad BIOS settings, poorly connected components, mishandling something and leaving electrostatic damage etc, etc.) could result in sub-optimal SQ and defeat the purpose of going this route.
3. The Antipodes DX Gen 3. This was the other main turnkey product left after I discounted 1 & 2. But the Innuos SE has both Ethernet and USB output compared with the Antipodes USB only. Given my DAC happily accepts Ethernet and USB then I felt the Innuos offered better future proofing. 

 

So all things considered I am still extremely intrigued in the SOTM Trifecta / sCLK-Ex offerings but as none other than the mighty Romaz points out on his review of the Innuos SE over at Head-Fi, the Innuos is a great choice for those wanting a one-box solution that don't want to build an sCLK-EX server or spaghetti solution. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. He also says he still prefers his sCLK-EX server but the Innuos gives it a good run for it's money. Again paraphrasing from memory. But that and the other stellar reviews were good enough for me and I've take the plunge.

 

Now I did wonder about availability as Innuos made such a big deal around the Zenith SE being a limited production run of 100 units only. I contacted Innuos and they told me that these are now being made to order only and the next batch of 10 was due in late January. Apparently the triple linear toroidal transformers are hand twisted by mountain goatherds or something (ok I may had made that last bit up ) but these are made by another firm and are the production limiting factor.

 

So this was a problem for me. My server is dead. And late January is a long way off. A really long way off in audiophile panic terms!

 

Now I praised my current server earlier despite it and I not particularly getting on recently. As my emergency solution I dusted down my old QNAP NAS drive and gave thanks that my laziness and general ineptitude had prevented me from following my girlfriends instructions about selling it on Ebay! Phew, disaster averted! But whilst I have music playing again the NAS (even with a basic LPS) sounds very clunky compared to the Audiostore Prestige server it's stepping in for. Locally stored FLAC just sounds heavy and clunky compared to the Prestige. Interestingly Tidal doesn't sound too bad. But suffice to say I am hearing a very noticeable drop in quality versus the Prestige. So despite this server dying on it's ass I have a renewed appreciation for the great job it was doing. Pretty ironic! 

 

So what to do about the interim wait until late January. Could I cope with limping along with a NAS, clunky music, no Roon and the old school feel of BubbleUpnp?

 

Short answer, nope! But talking to a couple of UK dealers about whether they happened to have a Zenith SE in stock led me to come up with the following interesting solution.

 

My Zenith MK2 arrives today . I have also ordered and placed a deposit on the SE for the late January batch. Upon the dealer getting the SE, I'll pay the remainder and they'll ship to me. The dealer will then accept the Zenith MK2 at a very nominal markdown from what I paid for it. In other words I'm paying a fairly trivial fee for a loaner Zenith MK2 to tide me over until the SE is available.

 

So ok there is a small hassle in terms of needing to setup two different servers within 2 months of each other and needing to package/courier the MK2 back to the dealer. But there are plenty positives too. Not least I get to restore hopefully great sounding music today. I also get to compare the Zenith MK2 to my previous server. Based on memory only obviously. I'm not expecting the difference to be very big but hopefully the MK2's higher price is somewhat reflected in SQ. We shall see I guess. I then also get to do a direct comparison of the MK2 vs the SE in January. I'm obviously hoping that the SE will kick the Prestiges ass in terms of SQ and given the difference in price it better do!

 

As per a few reviews (including Roys) the SE needs some real burn-in time so I guess I need to factor that in. But it will still be an interesting and hopefully fun experiment.

 

I guess that sticking with the experimentation theme I also have the intrigue/dilemma of what to do with my surplus to requirements spaghetti components. Obviously selling them is the standout answer. But do I sell them without testing whether any of them further improve the SQ with the MK2 or SE. The ISO Regen for example in the USB path. The SU-1 to offer an alternative USB to I2S. I hope that this is not the case because I am spending a large sum of money to try and simplify into a one-box kickass solution. But it would be foolish to not at least try whether the additional boxes I have on hand improve things or not.

 

Anway, that's the admittedly long story of how from in July to when the Op started this thread till now in the dying embers of November I have moved on from a six box solution to (hopefully) a one box solution. I stated a few weeks ago on this thread that I thought the Zenith SE & Directstream DAC would be a killer combo. Well I've put my money where my mouth is and I'm about to find out. Fingers crossed! 

 

I'll report back on the Zenith MK2 after a few weeks of bedding it in.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

I'll be all ears to hear that review. 

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

And that makes you the perfect guy to tell us about an item like the Innuos.

 

Oh - pressure! 

I'll do my best.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Oh - pressure! 

I'll do my best.

 

I'm hoping to get my hands on a Zenith SE in a few weeks, and see why Roy likes it so much.

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm hoping to get my hands on a Zenith SE in a few weeks, and see why Roy likes it so much.

 

Hey Rajiv, 

 

Yeah I saw you were following/participating in that thread. 

 

Would love to get your opinion on the SE. Especially as you're already so experienced with the Trifecta. Would make an excellent comparison. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

Also FWIW I suspect or expect the Trifecta with external clock such as Mutec or your Cybershaft (@austinpop) to be better. 

 

For me my priority and hope is that the SE is pretty close to that. And hopefully one of the best 'one box' solutions. 

 

But time will tell I guess. 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hey Rajiv, 

 

Yeah I saw you were following/participating in that thread. 

 

Would love to get your opinion on the SE. Especially as you're already so experienced with the Trifecta. Would make an excellent comparison. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Also FWIW I suspect or expect the Trifecta with external clock such as Mutec or your Cybershaft (@austinpop) to be better. 

 

For me my priority and hope is that the SE is pretty close to that. And hopefully one of the best 'one box' solutions. 

 

But time will tell I guess. 

 

Yes, time will tell, indeed.

 

Any server that can displace, or at least equal, Roy's fully-reclocked build is worth a deeper look. 

[beerandmusic]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm hoping to get my hands on a Zenith SE in a few weeks, and see why Roy likes it so much.

I would be curious to know if it will be a "BIG JUMP" like night and day difference from the ZENITH MK2, or something you have to listen carefully for.....

 

[hieukm]

Up your budget to better solution like Wadax Server/SGM/Aurender and never has to worry about spagetti solution. 

 

[beerandmusic]

On 7/24/2017 at 6:33 AM, octaviars said:

Separating the core and endpoint will make it easy to upgrade in the future but as you say involve more stuff in the chain compared to a one box solution. @bigblue

 

 

I like idea of all-in-ones also...without need for many PS's cables etc, not to mention configuration...

 

I don't care about "future proof" or upgrades...when you are ready to upgrade, sell your old all-in-one and buy another.

 

I understand many like to tinker and daisy chain and have more flexibility, but clearly that is not for everyone.

[Speed Racer]

I will always have separate servers and streamers. Why? Because I will always have multiple “zones” each with a streamer. One server will feed multiple streamers

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

I will always have separate servers and streamers. Why? Because I will always have multiple “zones” each with a streamer. One server will feed multiple streamers

with a one box/two box solution as your primary doesn't exclude you from having ability to have endpoints elsewhere.

[beerandmusic]

On 11/16/2017 at 1:35 PM, thyname said:

 

Or with one of the below?

 

Ayre QX-5 Twenty
PS Audio Directstream w/ Network Bridge II built in
DEQX HDP-5
DEQX PreMate+
Krell Vanguard Universal DAC
 

They are all Roon Ready, and direct to Amp (volume control / preamp).

 

 

Thoughts?

Or auralic altair....keeping a list of streamers here...

Don't forget the upcoming TEAC NT505 also....

I know these are lower budgets, but just saying....some of the lower budget ones may sound as good as more expensive ones?

 

 

[beerandmusic]

On 11/16/2017 at 4:50 PM, LTG2010 said:

Have you seen Darko's review of the new innuous zenith SE Mk II ? He states it outperforms the standard mk II version and Ultrarendu, that might be a candidate for a one box solution.

He says in the review that it outperforms the Ultrarendu?  Link please?

 

edit to add, had to google....i really like the idea of the rendu and sotm, but i also prefer single box solution without usb interface..sure enough review says outperforms rendu ultra....darn the price....maybe they will make one without the transport where they can lower the price some?!

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/10/richer-sounds-with-the-innuos-zenith-mkii-se/

[beerandmusic]

On 7/21/2017 at 3:33 PM, bigblue said:

I am about to take my first steps down the Hard drive based Avenue of Music.

• I am interested in a Roon based system. 
• SOtM 200 Ultra or Sonore UltraRendu would be very interesting but the total number of boxes, 6 in total (NUC+PS, NAA+PS, Reclocker+PS) will not fit my rack.
• If SQ would improve I would not hesitate to go with a Nucleus w music library feeding the endpoint. 
• I want to minimize the risk of having "issues" with the set up (drop outs, pops and cracks).
• The converter to be fed is the built in DAC of the Gryphon Diablo 300. It accepts S/PDIF as well as USB and AES/EBU.

 

Where would you suggest I go looking with a 8-10 k USD budget?

So far I have only 2 contenders on the list: Innous Zenith Mk II and Antipodes DX.

Would you say such a "one box solution" is a big compromise and the above mentioned 6-box set up would be far superior?

 

any update?  did you get the trial zenith?

[bigblue]

No, not yet. Will let you all know as soon as I have a unit on trial. 

[BigAlMc]

9 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

He says in the review that it outperforms the Ultrarendu?  Link please?

 

edit to add, had to google....i really like the idea of the rendu and sotm, but i also prefer single box solution without usb interface..sure enough review says outperforms rendu ultra....darn the price....maybe they will make one without the transport where they can lower the price some?!

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/10/richer-sounds-with-the-innuos-zenith-mkii-se/

 

Hi @beerandmusic,

 

It's not the transport that's causing the price it's the power supply. 

 

Take a look at the Innuos site. Next model down from the Special Edition is the Zenith MKII (which I am currently trying and very impressed with) at less than half the price. £2300 instead of £5000 (not sure what the price is in Trumpian dollars ). 

 

Lower still down the range are the Zen and Zen mini models coming in at fairly modest pricing. 

 

Re the transport. The CD drive is not functionality I required or particular wanted. I would not have selected a spinning disc drive if I was ordering ala carte. But hey ho, it comes with it and I ripped two discs yesterday and its definitely handy. Pop the disc in. It rips to FLAC, obtains the metadata and ejects the disc a couple minutes later. Literally couldn't be easier. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan