10 grand - what set up would you recommend?

[bigblue]

11 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

if you already have a dac, i am not sure you can find anything more accurate than what the SOTM will do?

I mean all you are trying to do is to transfer bits from the ethernet interface to the dac?

I would think this could be done perfectly 100% of the time with just about any network interface providing a compatible clock with your dac?

 

 

I am sure SoTM will do this perfectly where all bits are shipped in the right order from A to B. But as I understand its more than just "transporting". Otherwise they all would sound the same - but they don´t. In the same way all CD players sound different. Pure power and vibrations are two areas that have a great impact on the end result. And this is something I have encountered many times in my own system. I tried out 4 different "feet" when searching for the optimal way to isolate my gear from the rack. They all affected the sound slightly different. I ended up with Stillpoint. One of the best upgrades to my turntable was a tube based power supply instead of the standard SS. Why this makes the music more involving - I don't know. 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, bigblue said:

 

I have never opened an Antipodes Server. What does it mean sonically that it is SoTM parts inside? Good or bad? Could it be that Antipodes unique selling point is not the actual parts - but what they do with them and how that affects the end result, or?

The Antiposes claim to fame isn't the parts per se, but that they measure and optimize everything (HW and software) to have the lowest noise, cleanest output you can get from a computer.

[beerandmusic]

5 hours ago, bigblue said:

 

I am sure SoTM will do this perfectly where all bits are shipped in the right order from A to B. But as I understand its more than just "transporting". Otherwise they all would sound the same - but they don´t. In the same way all CD players sound different. Pure power and vibrations are two areas that have a great impact on the end result. And this is something I have encountered many times in my own system. I tried out 4 different "feet" when searching for the optimal way to isolate my gear from the rack. They all affected the sound slightly different. I ended up with Stillpoint. One of the best upgrades to my turntable was a tube based power supply instead of the standard SS. Why this makes the music more involving - I don't know. 

 

i could understand vibration may make a difference for a phsical transport like a cd drive or turntable, i don't see it making a differce in transferring bits via ethernet. Also the ps should make little difference in the transfer of bits...maybe in the dac, but not in the ethernet transfer from a to b.  Think a computer with a cheap power supply and vigorously shaking it while transferring a digital file over ethernet....it will transfer same file digitally accurately 100% of the time.

[bigblue]

39 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

i could understand vibration may make a difference for a phsical transport like a cd drive or turntable, i don't see it making a differce in transferring bits via ethernet. Also the ps should make little difference in the transfer of bits...maybe in the dac, but not in the ethernet transfer from a to b.  Think a computer with a cheap power supply and vigorously shaking it while transferring a digital file over ethernet....it will transfer same file digitally accurately 100% of the time.

The best education IMO is to see for one self. Only then can you decide if it is something that YOU think is worth investing money in. To me it is secondary how and why it works - the primary is the result. When setting up my Vinyl system I started out with a slab of granite under the TT. By recommendation I added a second slab. Yep, better sound. In order to find the best insulation from the rack I asked my friend, who is an acoustic consultant and constructs concert halls, to calculate what Sylomer I should use. I ended up evaluating 5 different materials with different characters before settling in on the one I found sounded best in my set up. That is the M.O that works best for me. 

[bigblue]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

The Antiposes claim to fame isn't the parts per se, but that they measure and optimize everything (HW and software) to have the lowest noise, cleanest output you can get from a computer.

 

Thats what I thought - and that works for me. 

[beerandmusic]

10 minutes ago, bigblue said:

The best education IMO is to see for one self. Only then can you decide if it is something that YOU think is worth investing money in. To me it is secondary how and why it works - the primary is the result. When setting up my Vinyl system I started out with a slab of granite under the TT. By recommendation I added a second slab. Yep, better sound. In order to find the best insulation from the rack I asked my friend, who is an acoustic consultant and constructs concert halls, to calculate what Sylomer I should use. I ended up evaluating 5 different materials with different characters before settling in on the one I found sounded best in my set up. That is the M.O that works best for me. 

I don't doubt any of this for a turntable.

I am talking about the digital transfer of bits via ethernet.  Have you read anywhere that suggests the advantages of any design over another for the digital transfer of bits over ethernet? (not talking about the d-a conversion).

[bigblue]

48 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Have you read anywhere that suggests the advantages of any design over another for the digital transfer of bits over ethernet? (not talking about the d-a conversion).

No, I haven't. I have just heard it with my own ears. What is your hands on experience?

[beerandmusic]

8 minutes ago, bigblue said:

No, I haven't. I have just heard it with my own ears. What is your hands on experience?

 

What have you heard with your own ears?

What two products did you compare? (talking about transmission of ethernet bits, all other hardware being the same)

 

[Ralf11]

maybe you "heard" a placebo effect, blue

 

did you do a test to eliminate that possibility?

 

Beer is talking about (I think) a situation where the signal is entirely in the digital domain, not where there is A>D or D>A conversion.

[bigblue]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

maybe you "heard" a placebo effect, blue

 

did you do a test to eliminate that possibility?

 

Beer is talking about (I think) a situation where the signal is entirely in the digital domain, not where there is A>D or D>A conversion.

 

Ok thanks for the clarification, then I missunderstood @beerandmusic. I have not compared two all digital devices. That would be my next step. It will most likely be a Zenith SE vs Auralic N10. Hopefully on this side of the year. 

[Ralf11]

recruit a friend or gf to help do a double-blinded test - try 10 trials - if close to 50/50, then maybe try 20 trials

 

be sure you've done all the noise treatments possible to make them both perform at their peak & use material you are familiar with

[skyline]

On November 16, 2017 at 10:07 PM, beerandmusic said:

Here is a list of certified compatible roon endpoints

If i had to buy one thing right now, i would lean toward the new LUMINA D2 ($2300), but your budget may be higher.

 

http://roonready.com/

 

I use a D1 as a streamer to my DAC, and with Pranawire power cord/conditioning, it's very, very good.

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, skyline said:

 

I use a D1 as a streamer to my DAC, and with Pranawire power cord/conditioning, it's very, very good.

 

Using the D1 as a Streamer only? Such a waste.

 

there are cheaper and quite as good options for streamers only with no DAC. Such as SOtM sMS-200Ultra or ultraRendu 

[skyline]

1 minute ago, thyname said:

 

Using the D1 as a Streamer only? Such a waste.

 

there are cheaper and quite as good options for streamers only with no DAC. Such as SOtM sMS-200Ultra or ultraRendu 

 

Yes, I know the D1 with its built-in DAC is quite a bargain.

 

I will eventually move on to a Signature Rendu SE or DCS bridge.

 

But I'm currently very happy with the D1 as a streamer.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, thyname said:

 

Using the D1 as a Streamer only? Such a waste.

 

there are cheaper and quite as good options for streamers only with no DAC. Such as SOtM sMS-200Ultra or ultraRendu 

He probably bought the D1 as an all in one solution (bargain w/dac), and then decided to upgrade the dac?

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, thyname said:

 

Using the D1 as a Streamer only? Such a waste.

 

there are cheaper and quite as good options for streamers only with no DAC. Such as SOtM sMS-200Ultra or ultraRendu 

What dac do you use? 

Did you feel the DAC in the Lumin was lacking where you needed to upgrade?

[thyname]

5 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

What dac do you use? 

Did you feel the DAC in the Lumin was lacking where you needed to upgrade?

 

You are asking me?

[Lee Scoggins]

On 11/17/2017 at 6:01 AM, BigAlMc said:

I have the PS Audio Directstream and the Bridge II network card and they are a VERY good DAC and endpoint combo.

 

I am a big fan of Paul McGowan, Ted Smith and the PSA team in general. Their ethos and the support they provide is truly excellent. I would heartily recommend this product to anyone. It should be an 'end-game' product especially when paired with a good server. 

 

The fact that they are continuing to release software updates that further improves this DAC is also phenomenal. For the time being it future proofs you and prevents you being left with an obsolete bit of kit.

 

Should tho is arbitrary in this game and what can I say. I wanted and still want 'more'.

 

I found I could squeeze a further improvement (on an already excellent SQ) by using (an over-complicated) setup that currently comprises the MicroRendu, the ISO Regen and the Singxer SU-1 (to feed the Directstream it's preferred format of I2S). The improvement is small but significant. That said I'm a bit fed up with the 'spaghetti' mix of power supplies and cables.

 

I'm also intrigued by the so called SOTM Trifecta but replacing one mess of cables with another is putting me off going down that road.

 

I'm therefore seriously considering the Innuos Zenith SE (as it's getting great praise) as a 'one-box' alternative to my current server>MR>IR>SU-1 to DAC digital pathway. It's not cheap but I'm hopeful that the combo of kick-ass server and kick-ass DAC finally quells the audiophilia nervosa and lets me relax a bit and enjoy the music.

 

For 10k ballpark I think you could do a lot worse than these two.

 

The new Antipodes DX Gen 3 is also intriguing but it's USB only for output whereas the Zenith SE has both USB and Ethernet output which is somewhat more flexible and future proof.

 

That said - it's not lost on me that the nature of this hobby being what it is that there's nothing to stop me from splashing a further 6k on the Zenith ZE and then still reinstating the IR, the SU-1 or the latest/greatest gizmo  

 

But then life would be dull if we could get the definitive 'this is the best possible kit' answer that Beer seems to be on such a quest to find!

 

Anyways - just my experience and thoughts based on my own journey.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

I feel the same way and have gotten to know the folks at the company. Just really good high integrity and very innovative people.  The DS dac and Memory Player have taken my digital to a whole new level.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I feel the same way and have gotten to know the folks at the company. Just really good high integrity and very innovative people.  The DS dac and Memory Player have taken my digital to a whole new level.

what is this memory player?

[beerandmusic]

21 hours ago, thyname said:

 

You are asking me?

Oh, Re-reading, i meant for skyline....

 

[beerandmusic]

On 11/26/2017 at 8:01 PM, skyline said:

 

I use a D1 as a streamer to my DAC, and with Pranawire power cord/conditioning, it's very, very good.

 Did you have a dac already, and bought the LUMIN as a player only for it, or did you buy the lumin and decide you like it as a player but wanted to upgrade the dac? And if so, what dac did you upgrade to?

[thyname]

3 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 Did you have a dac already, and bought the LUMIN as a player only for it, or did you buy the lumin and decide you like it as a player but wanted to upgrade the dac? And if so, what dac did you upgrade to?

 

That was not me. Please go back up, read previous messages, carefully paying attention to the username that posted that message. It wasn’t me. Sorry, I don’t know the reasons why he did what he did, since it wasn’t me

[skyline]

6 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 Did you have a dac already, and bought the LUMIN as a player only for it, or did you buy the lumin and decide you like it as a player but wanted to upgrade the dac? And if so, what dac did you upgrade to?

 

I owned an S1 before the D1. But I found the S1 to be over detailed, so I picked up the D1.

 

I think the D1 is quite a bargain, but I wanted to upgrade the DAC section.

 

I use a Bakoon DAC-21 and it's quite an upgrade over the D1.

 

In fact, I like it more than the S1.

 

But the D1 as a streamer is nice also.

[Lee Scoggins]

10 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

what is this memory player?

 

It's the dedicated transport that reads the digital data into memory.  It is excellent but some DVD-Audio discs give it fits.  That is soon to be solved by a firmware update I am told.

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

It's the dedicated transport that reads the digital data into memory.  It is excellent but some DVD-Audio discs give it fits.  That is soon to be solved by a firmware update I am told.

I meant what is the model of this memory player you are talking about?  Or are you just talking about a function of the direct stream?