10 grand - what set up would you recommend?

[BigAlMc]

10 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

He says in the review that it outperforms the Ultrarendu?  Link please?

 

edit to add, had to google....i really like the idea of the rendu and sotm, but i also prefer single box solution without usb interface..sure enough review says outperforms rendu ultra....darn the price....maybe they will make one without the transport where they can lower the price some?!

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/10/richer-sounds-with-the-innuos-zenith-mkii-se/

 

Hi @beerandmusic,

 

It's not the transport that's causing the price it's the power supply. 

 

Take a look at the Innuos site. Next model down from the Special Edition is the Zenith MKII (which I am currently trying and very impressed with) at less than half the price. £2300 instead of £5000 (not sure what the price is in Trumpian dollars ). 

 

Lower still down the range are the Zen and Zen mini models coming in at fairly modest pricing. 

 

Re the transport. The CD drive is not functionality I required or particular wanted. I would not have selected a spinning disc drive if I was ordering ala carte. But hey ho, it comes with it and I ripped two discs yesterday and its definitely handy. Pop the disc in. It rips to FLAC, obtains the metadata and ejects the disc a couple minutes later. Literally couldn't be easier. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

So I promised @firedog some early observations on the Zenith MKII that I received and installed on Wednesday.

 

Put simply,  I am very impressed.

 

As back story I have ordered a Zenith SE but it won't be available until late January and I'm using the Zenith MKII as a temporary solution until then. I opted for the the SE largely on the rave reviews including the Darko review that Beer posted above and Roys review on Head-Fi where he compared it very favourably to the DCS Network Bridge and fairly favourably to the sCLK-EX server or Trifecta solutions. Anyway in that review Roy talks about the SE as having "grip and authority". That's very interesting because if I was to describe the MKII in one word,  that word would be "control". 

 

I want to reiterate my praise for the work that Andrew does with the Sonictransporter and Martin does with the Prestige. Both are excellent servers for the money and sound great. I may have had issues with mine but I think that's an exception and not the general experience. But I had no complaints whatsoever with the all important SQ and I would still recommend these products to interested parties. 

 

That said for approximately an extra 50‰ outlay the Zenith MKII raises the bar on SQ. The word control just keeps coming back when I'm listening. The music sounds great, there is plenty detail and a great sense of image. But there just seems to be a real sense of control. I'm very impressed and that's at only a few days burn-in. 

 

I've been playing with both ethernet (Ghent so called JSSG 30 usd 1m cable) into my Directstreams Bridge 2. And with USB (Lush 70cm cable) into the USB input on the Directstream and I can't hear any real difference. Both sound great to me and even switching zones from one to another mid track sound identically great. 

 

Firedog I haven't heard the Sonore Signature Rendu so I can't offer a comparison as per your other thread. But I can say that based on what I've heard so far the Zenith MKII suggests that the need for an end-point is largely removed as the SQ out of the box is terrific. 

 

Will be very interesting and exciting to find out what margin the SE improves things by. But if I had bought the MKII as a keeper I would not be disappointed because I'm really impressed so far. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

Oh, and setup was a breeze. Plugged in ethernet cable from the network switch, ethernet to DAC, USB to DAC and the power cable. Switched it on, went to myinnuos.com on a browser on my laptop which found the server immediately. Set a few simple settings. Installed Roon and connected to it via my phone. And was up and running. 

 

Transferring music was a simple drag and drop affair from one folder to another. Laptop to Innuos in my case. Though it supports a couple more options to import from USB drive or NAS. 

 

The unit is very nice too. More like a hifi component compared to the more computery server it's replacing. 

 

All very nice and very easy. 

[Speed Racer]

Sorry. There is no way I would spend almost $7000 on a product like that. 

 

First, you can’t even say it sounds better than ultraRendu or sMS200ultra. Second, you would be much better off spending the extra money on better components or speakers.

 

What Darko says about the DAC is just plain stupid. The quality of the source is critical to the overall sound of the system. You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. 

[firedog]

Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

First, you can’t even say it sounds better than ultraRendu ....

But Darko did. That's one of the reasons we read reviews. Either you trust him or you don't.

 

An experienced user on another forum also wrote that the MKII (not SE) clearly outperformed the mR+LPS-1. Yes the MKII is more expensive, but it's an interesting bit of info if someone is  shopping. 

[BigAlMc]

@Speed Racer,

 

I'm not sure where the confrontational tone is coming from. Firstly, no one is asking you to spend this sort of money but look at the title of the thread and the Ops original question. 

 

Secondly, I didn't say this was better/worse/indifferent to either the Ultrarendu or SMS-200ultra. I did however say that I was fed up with spaghetti solutions and this server potentially addresses that issue. 

 

Finally, I disagree re Darkos comment. The point I believe he is trying to make is that people invest loads in a DAC hoping it corrects all the downstream issues and then skimp on the server. So if you have a much better source then perhaps you don't need the DAC to do as much remedial work. Sounds reasonable to me. 

[Speed Racer]

Put your Big Al pants on. What I wrote was direct, not confrontational. 

 

The DAC does the digital to analog conversion. Whatever it does is carried through the whole chain to your ears. You can’t fix a poor recording and you can’t fix a poor conversion. The D to A conversion must be good or money spent on either side of the DAC is wasted. 

 

You don’t need spaghetti solutions with products like the ultraRendu. That’s people going crazy with tweaks that don’t really matter.

[beerandmusic]

42 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

So I promised @firedog some early observations on the Zenith MKII that I received and installed on Wednesday.

 

Put simply,  I am very impressed.

 

As back story I have ordered a Zenith SE but it won't be available until late January and I'm using the Zenith MKII as a temporary solution until then. I opted for the the SE largely on the rave reviews including the Darko review that Beer posted above and Roys review on Head-Fi where he compared it very favourably to the DCS Network Bridge and fairly favourably to the sCLK-EX server or Trifecta solutions. Anyway in that review Roy talks about the SE as having "grip and authority". That's very interesting because if I was to describe the MKII in one word,  that word would be "control". 

 

I want to reiterate my praise for the work that Andrew does with the Sonictransporter and Martin does with the Prestige. Both are excellent servers for the money and sound great. I may have had issues with mine but I think that's an exception and not the general experience. But I had no complaints whatsoever with the all important SQ and I would still recommend these products to interested parties. 

 

That said for approximately an extra 50‰ outlay the Zenith MKII raises the bar on SQ. The word control just keeps coming back when I'm listening. The music sounds great, there is plenty detail and a great sense of image. But there just seems to be a real sense of control. I'm very impressed and that's at only a few days burn-in. 

 

I've been playing with both ethernet (Ghent so called JSSG 30 usd 1m cable) into my Directstreams Bridge 2. And with USB (Lush 70cm cable) into the USB input on the Directstream and I can't hear any real difference. Both sound great to me and even switching zones from one to another mid track sound identically great. 

 

Firedog I haven't heard the Sonore Signature Rendu so I can't offer a comparison as per your other thread. But I can say that based on what I've heard so far the Zenith MKII suggests that the need for an end-point is largely removed as the SQ out of the box is terrific. 

 

Will be very interesting and exciting to find out what margin the SE improves things by. But if I had bought the MKII as a keeper I would not be disappointed because I'm really impressed so far. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Do you like the MKII better than the Direct Stream that you had before?

I would ignore speedracer....he sounds like that to many people...I can't believe he doesn't think his post sounds confrontational....he always sounds like an arse...very abrasive in every comment he posts here...he seems to me like a newbie that bought the latest and greatest (yggi schiit pcm stuff) and now thinks he knows it all....he is full of himself.

[BigAlMc]

2 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Put your Big Al pants on. What I wrote was direct, not confrontational. 

 

The DAC does the digital to analog conversion. Whatever it does is carried through the whole chain to your ears. You can’t fix a poor recording and you can’t fix a poor conversion. The D to A conversion must be good or money spent on either side of the DAC is wasted. 

 

You don’t need spaghetti solutions with products like the ultraRendu. That’s people going crazy with tweaks that don’t really matter.

 

Big Al pants on and very comfy thank you 

 

Yeah but the debate is still one box (kickass server) vs multiple box (server, UltraRendu/SMS-200ultra and decent power supply). So agreed, you don't need to go spaghetti daft with loads of tweaks but it's fundamentally about whether a great server negates the need for additional boxes downstream (renderers, decrapifiers etc and the quality power supplies they need to shine). 

 

Now my hope is that the SE means that I don't need anything else. However I've read a couple reports that the TX-USB-ultra in between the SE and Chord Dave increases things further. But then you need a SPS-500 or whatever for that. The dilemma never ends!! 

 

 

[BigAlMc]

12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Do you like the MKII better than the Direct Stream that you had before?

 

Hi Beer, 

 

The Directstream is my DAC and is very much still in place. The MKII is replacing the server (and spaghetti pathway) that feeds the Directstream. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

41 minutes ago, firedog said:

But Darko did. That's one of the reasons we read reviews. Either you trust him or you don't.

 

An experienced user on another forum also wrote that the MKII (not SE) clearly outperformed the mR+LPS-1. Yes the MKII is more expensive, but it's an interesting bit of info if someone is  shopping. 

 

Reading this I realise I could have been clearer. 

 

The MKII is not only beating my previous server. It's also beating the Microrendu (1.4 hardware upgrade) , ISO Regen and SU-1 combo that I had in place. 

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Beer, 

 

The Directstream is my DAC and is very much still in place. The MKII is replacing the server (and spaghetti pathway) that feeds the Directstream. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

i thought the directstream had an enet streamer?  (if so, wasn't it worthy?)...i was actually contemplating the directstream jr.

[BigAlMc]

The Directstream is a DAC. 

 

There is an optional ethernet network bridge card that you can slot in. This is called the Bridge II and turns the Directstream into a streamer or end point. 

 

The Innuos is a server and has 1TB of storage for storing the files. 

 

So I have Roon server running on the Innuos and playing/sending music to the Directstream. 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Reading this I realise I could have been clearer. 

 

The MKII is not only beating my previous server. It's also beating the Microrendu (1.4 hardware upgrade) , ISO Regen and SU-1 combo that I had in place. 

Thanks. Still haven't decided about either the Innuos MKII or the Sig Rendu SE. SE will be quite a bit more expensive for me (no domestic dealer, so shipping and taxes added in).

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

The Directstream is a DAC. 

 

There is an optional ethernet network bridge card that you can slot in. This is called the Bridge II and turns the Directstream into a streamer or end point. 

 

 

oh, ok....i know the directstram JR is both a dac& enet streamer so i just assumed the directstream did too....I never looked close at it because it was out of my budget...anyway, sorry for interrupting....

 

[limniscate]

I'm getting the Zenith SE in late December.

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Put your Big Al pants on. What I wrote was direct, not confrontational. 

 

The DAC does the digital to analog conversion. Whatever it does is carried through the whole chain to your ears. You can’t fix a poor recording and you can’t fix a poor conversion. The D to A conversion must be good or money spent on either side of the DAC is wasted. 

 

You don’t need spaghetti solutions with products like the ultraRendu. That’s people going crazy with tweaks that don’t really matter.

Tone it down a notch. 

[BigAlMc]

11 minutes ago, limniscate said:

I'm getting the Zenith SE in late December.

 

Hey Eric, 

 

Fantastic. Will be eager to hear your thoughts. Especially exciting given your first hand experience and experiments with the Trifecta. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[asdf1000]

10 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Beer, 

 

The Directstream is my DAC and is very much still in place. The MKII is replacing the server (and spaghetti pathway) that feeds the Directstream. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Hi, so you are still using the Bridge II in this case?

 

But having a better server (MKII) has made a large improvement?

 

And you prefer it’s ethernet output vs it’s USB output, into your DirectStream?

 

Just another question, has your server always been in the same room as your Directstream?

 

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi, so you are still using the Bridge II in this case?

 

But having a better server (MKII) has made a large improvement?

 

And you prefer it’s ethernet output vs it’s USB output, into your DirectStream?

 

Just another question, has your server always been in the same room as your Directstream?

 

 

Yes, I'm still using the Bridge II. 

 

And yes adding the MKII has improved the SQ but whilst it's sounding better I'm not sure I'd describe it as a big improvement. It's not night and day but it's better. 

 

Not sure if I prefer the ethernet to bridge over USB yet. It's too close to call currently. I'm kinda rooting for the Bridge tho as PS Audio are about to roll out support for the full MQA unfold for Roon via a firmware update. 

 

And yup server is in the same room on the same rack as the Directstream. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

And yup server is in the same room on the same rack as the Directstream. 

 

Hi Alan

 

I wonder if this is one reason (of many possibilities of course) you're hearing differences between servers, over ethernet.

 

Perhaps the Zenith has better EM/RFI shielding than the others you've tried.

 

Have you tried having the server outside of the listening room?

 

[BigAlMc]

9 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi Alan

 

I wonder if this is one reason (of many possibilities of course) you're hearing differences between servers, over ethernet.

 

Perhaps the Zenith has better EM/RFI shielding than the others you've tried.

 

Have you tried having the server outside of the listening room?

 

 

Hi Em2016,

 

Not really an option without running ugly ethernet cable runs into another room or drilling into walls.

 

Also not really something I'd want as part of the point of a silent server is it can sit with the rest of the kit.

 

My understanding is increasingly that everything matters. So everything from the PSU, the SSD/HD, the RAM - all these things matter and have the potential to contribute electrical noise into the signal. So following that rationale is makes sense to go for the most well engineered server you can within your budget. That's the path I'm pursuing anyway in the hope of not needing renderers and other gizmos in the digital pathway to the DAC.

 

Time will see I guess.

 

Thanks,

Alan

[monteverdi]

I compared all the Innous models at this year's HighEnd via their headphone setup and the Zenith II was very obviuosly better but the SE version was in a different room via speakers so I have no idea if that significant price difference (for moded power supply and vibration control) is warranted.

Anyone made a direct comparison between SE and standard MkII?

[mikicasellas]

I am considering to build a dedicated PC with sCLK-EX(4 points) with tX-USBexp, Kaby Lake CPU and the works or a SOtM Trifecta.

 

But i would like to know how the "Regular" Zenith MKII compares to those...specially to the SOtM Trifecta

 

In the other hand, has anyone know how the "Regular" Zenith MKII compares to SE Zenith MKII… is it night and day difference in SQ?

 

Has anyone here tried any of these?

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

[seeteeyou]

On 12/4/2017 at 3:34 AM, limniscate said:

I'm getting the Zenith SE in late December.

 

Looking forward to your impressions soon

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-75#post-13942919

Quote

I just got my SE and will report back later.