DIY DC power cables

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes, and the R1200CL took it to Ghent Audio in China, who commercialized it--even using John's initials--without ever asking permission or offering some small royalty.

Before he generously shared his shielding therory and technique as it applies to cables in audio systems, we discussed keeping it private for a cable line or sharing it for DIYers.  I'm not keen on being in the cable business (was in the past; might be again in the future), so was fine with his desire to just put it out there.  

But I admit to some chagrin regarding his idea--and his name--being used without permission for profit by an overseas firm.  Live and learn I guess...

 

Yeah, live and learn. I do think that you could sell your own cables like hot cakes if start making them. I would surely order a bunch. Not to say the vast amount of good will you've already got by both JSSG and JSGT. You and John have both changed my audio life for the better. I am truly grateful for that and will stand in line when your next products will be released! ?

[Cornan]

9 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

And oh, the best size copper braid for a 4S11 Star Quad?

 

You´ll need to measure the diameter of Canare 4S11 and choose a shield braid that is roughly the same size (not much smaller though). Remember that the braid gets bigger when you push the braid and smaller if you pull it. 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, fayerichard said:

 

Any input on the awg of the draining wire for JSSG?

 

24awg is very thin, would 16, 20 or 22 awg make any difference at all?

 

Probably not a noticable difference between 16-24awg drain wire.

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, fayerichard said:

Can you recommend a few - this is the first time I've seen it.

 

I can recommend Gophert csp-3205II (floating SMPS) that I own five of https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjT89CM05rYAhXiQpoKHSX7DScQFgg9MAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.banggood.com%2FGOPHERT-CPS-3205-0-32V-0-5A-Portable-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-934530.html&usg=AOvVaw19-xuR4wRRSKG32HpwyR4B

 

For my router I use Voltcraft FPS-1134 (floating LPS), but it seems to be discontinued now https://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/1196063/Bench-PSU-fixed-voltage-VOLTCRAFT-FPS-1134-11-14-Vdc-4-6-A-56-W-No-of-outputs-1-x;jsessionid=989973CE130FDF92AE38186951C46106.ASTPCEN27

 

Add LT-3045 in series on the DC cables and use JSGT if used on network devices.

[Cornan]

8 hours ago, sandyk said:

I am also referring here to those who use an additional couple of series low noise regulators in  line with the power leads,without also perhaps considering the use of something like a diecast aluminium case to house them.

 

Here is how I enclose my LT3045s in series. With Entreq mini wraps containing copper flakes and tourmaline stones (plus other minerals)!  

I guess a JGGS would work as well.

 

[tapatrick]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes, and the R1200CL took it to Ghent Audio in China, who commercialized it--even using John's initials--without ever asking permission or offering some small royalty.

Before he generously shared his shielding therory and technique as it applies to cables in audio systems, we discussed keeping it private for a cable line or sharing it for DIYers.  I'm not keen on being in the cable business (was in the past; might be again in the future), so was fine with his desire to just put it out there.  

But I admit to some chagrin regarding his idea--and his name--being used without permission for profit by an overseas firm.  Live and learn I guess...

Alex, I understand your justified concern, but also many folks myself included, really appreciate the way John freely shares valuable information that brings real benefits to our systems. Just wanted to add that Johns reputation, knowledge and approach has far reaching implications and is growing - I often share with friends and family where my strange wirings and tweaks have come from, as they listen in amazement to the increasing sound quality. In our ever connected world, reputation stands out and is a very valuable asset for the long term... Looking forward to the products you and John come up with next!

[Forehaven]

9 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Yes metal.  I will be simply using hot glue to attach boards to metal assuring the inputs and outputs are isolated.  I had not planned on grounding the box itself. 

OK, I get it now.  I need to use plastic 2.1x5.5mm thru plugs.  I bought these when I was going to use an ABS box...Thanks for pointing out the very important mistake guys.

[fayerichard]

I have received the Audioquest nrg1.5 cables. It was a present. I also have the Oyaide dc plugs.

 

Question about the aq nrg1.5. The cable comes with two noise stoppers at both ends. 

 

Would there still be value in using these noisestopper when making the JSSG dc cables?

 

If so, on top of which layer should I attach the noise stoppers?

 

The choice is:

 

1. as is (on the existing sleeve as now)

2. on the copper braided sleeve for JSSG

3. on top of the copper braided sleeve with JSSG wire and underneath the last cover sleeve

4. on top of the last layer sleeve (which covers the JSSG and everything else)

 

Or not use it at all, since it has no use at all or a negative effect?

 

Here is a picture.

[fayerichard]

Or are experiences with ferrite noise stoppers not all that positive?

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, fayerichard said:

Or are experiences with ferrite noise stoppers not all that positive?

 

Not at all! Many people here on CA use a lot of them on USB cables for example. I am not intirely sure it will have any affect on starquad DC cables though. On the other hand I cannot see any reasons not to use it either. I'll say go for it with option 1! Merry Christmas! ? 

[fayerichard]

Merry Christmas!

 

I read that people said that the sound can become clearer, but also less involving and too sterile.

 

Would you go with option 1?

 

How should I build the JSSG around the ferrite noise stopper? 

 

That would mean I have to pull the drain wire over the noise stopper, or it has to stop at the noise stopper. As of now, the noise stoppers are located about 10 - 13 cm from the plugs on both ends. That would mean that the drain wire is not covering quite some space at both ends - which I thought it has to do in order for it to be more effective.

 

I am looking if option 3 or 4 are more viable, or even using no noise stoppers at all?

[Cornan]

25 minutes ago, fayerichard said:

Merry Christmas!

 

I read that people said that the sound can become clearer, but also less involving and too sterile.

 

Would you go with option 1?

 

How should I build the JSSG around the ferrite noise stopper? 

 

That would mean I have to pull the drain wire over the noise stopper, or it has to stop at the noise stopper. As of now, the noise stoppers are located about 10 - 13 cm from the plugs on both ends. That would mean that the drain wire is not covering quite some space at both ends - which I thought it has to do in order for it to be more effective.

 

I am looking if option 3 or 4 are more viable, or even using no noise stoppers at all?

 

If I would do it I would remove the ferrite noise stopper completely. Since shield braid is flexible it is possible to pull it over the ferrite though. You still need to add electrical tape at the both ends of the cable to secure the JSSG and prevent it from come into contact with the plugs. Personally I think the ferrite will not affect the outcome that much due to starquad plus JSSG, but I might be wrong. Ferrites should be as close to the cable as possible just like JSSG. Putting it on top of the JSSG is pointless.

[charlesphoto]

I would just use or sell your AC cable and get some starquad or other cable by the foot and some DC plugs and make up your own. Inexpensive, changeable if you mess up, and no more questions none of us can really answer for you! 

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

I would just use or sell your AC cable and get some starquad or other cable by the foot and some DC plugs and make up your own. Inexpensive, changeable if you mess up, and no more questions none of us can really answer for you! 

 

 Just don't make the mistake that I did by buying 10 pairs of cheap DC plugs and sockets of the correct diameter from an Asian ebay supplier !

 I couldn't find a single pair that didn't have connectivity problems due to ill fitting centre contacts. Just the slightest movement of the cable and the DC output was lost. That was if you managed to find a sweet spot in the socket to permit current flow in the first place !

After Xmas I will need to buy proper fitting sockets from local sources such as Altronics. in Sydney.

[jean-michel6]

On 21/12/2017 at 9:21 AM, Cornan said:

 

Here is how I enclose my LT3045s in series. With Entreq mini wraps containing copper flakes and tourmaline stones (plus other minerals)!  

I guess a JGGS would work as well.

 

Hi ,

Several questions about the use of the LT3045s

- which power supplies are you using upstream of the LT modules. 

- what is the main benefit of using those LT modules on the sound 

- why several modules in series ? Those modules are fixed voltage or adjustable ?How do you set them to have the 0.3 v drop to insure the regulator is working properly ?

- The amp accepted by the module is only 0,5 amp , which is quite low 

- was is the benefit of using the Entreq sleeves ?

 

Many questions , thank for your help. 

 

 

[Cornan]

7 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Hi ,

Several questions about the use of the LT3045s

- which power supplies are you using upstream of the LT modules. 

- what is the main benefit of using those LT modules on the sound 

- why several modules in series ? Those modules are fixed voltage or adjustable ?How do you set them to have the 0.3 v drop to insure the regulator is working properly ?

- The amp accepted by the module is only 0,5 amp , which is quite low 

- was is the benefit of using the Entreq sleeves ?

 

Many questions , thank for your help. 

 

 

 

Hi jean-michel6! 

 

Here is my answers with numbers! ?

 

1. Gophert csp-3205II floating lab SMPS

 

2. The sound get more full with improved details and blacker background.

 

3. Serial LT3045 equals even less noise. Fixed voltages. I set mine to 0.7-1v drop down. IME 0.7v drop-down is optimal in my setup. For example powering my Aries Mini I set Gophert to 15.7v into LT3045 (1A) 15v into LT3045 (1A) 14.3v into Aries Mini.

 

4. No there is 1A boards around as well. If you put two 1A boards in parallel you'll get 2A. Measure the actual current drawn during 15 minutes (incl. Power on/off) to find out which amperage you'll need.

 

5. Two benefits. EMI/RFI reduction and a slim case/protection for the dual boards. 

 

I hope that helps! ?

 

 

 

 

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

4. No there is 1A boards around as well. If you put two 1A boards in parallel you'll get 2A. Measure the actual current drawn during 15 minutes (incl. Power on/off) to find out which amperage you'll need.

 

 

How do you ensure proper current sharing between the 2 boards ?

 

[Cornan]

10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

How do you ensure proper current sharing between the 2 boards ?

 

 

The two boards must be matched from the seller (Alexey). Then use two of this cable (input/output) where DC screw terminal plugs is the LT3045s side-by-side.

 

(Picture of DC cable by Alex C for powering 12v device with two LPS-1)

[sandyk]

O.K.

 Otherwise, if they were reasonably close in output voltage you could use very small value series resistors at both outputs followed by an electrolytic capacitor at the DC output.

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

How do you ensure proper current sharing between the 2 boards ?

 

You can't just parallel two voltage sources, the higher value one will supply most of the current, which kind of negates the reason for using two in the first place.

 

To do it right you make sure the voltages are very close and then you put a small resistance in series with each. The differences in voltages cause slightly different currents to flow through the "ballast"  resistors. The closer the voltages the more equally matched the current sharing. (or alternatively the larger the resistors the better the sharing, BUT that negates the advantage of the extremely low output impedance of the LT3045).

 

The LT3045s are uniquely good at current sharing because of the way they work, which is VERY different than most regulators. Putting more than one together ON THE SAME BOARD, guarantees the output voltages will be VERY close, so only very small ballast resistors are needed.  (literally a half inch of trace on the board) BUT that only works when they are on the same board. You don't get that advantage when paralleling two boards. With two boards it depends on the accuracy of the voltage set resistors and the accuracy of the current source in the chip. This can be a WAY bigger spread than what you get when you parallel the chips on the same board. 

 

Thus for LT3045s you are much better off using a single board with fours chips rather than using two boards each with two chips.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

You can't just parallel two voltage sources, the higher value one will supply most of the current, which kind of negates the reason for using two in the first place.

 

To do it right you make sure the voltages are very close and then you put a small resistance in series with each. The differences in voltages cause slightly different currents to flow through the "ballast"  resistors. The closer the voltages the more equally matched the current sharing. (or alternatively the larger the resistors the better the sharing, BUT that negates the advantage of the extremely low output impedance of the LT3045).

 

The LT3045s are uniquely good at current sharing because of the way they work, which is VERY different than most regulators. Putting more than one together ON THE SAME BOARD, guarantees the output voltages will be VERY close, so only very small ballast resistors are needed.  (literally a half inch of trace on the board) BUT that only works when they are on the same board. You don't get that advantage when paralleling two boards. With two boards it depends on the accuracy of the voltage set resistors and the accuracy of the current source in the chip. This can be a WAY bigger spread than what you get when you parallel the chips on the same board. 

 

Thus for LT3045s you are much better off using a single board with fours chips rather than using two boards each with two chips.

 

John S.

Does this mean that even if the two LT3045 boards are completely matched (voltage and amperage) from the maker they still need resistors in series with each board?

 

I understand that a single board is optimal, but does that neccessarily make two separate boards a bad idea? Better without it completely if you use it in the DC cable path (close to the powered device)? The only thing you want to acheive using two boards is for devices requiring more than 1A. 

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Does this mean that even if the two LT3045 boards are completely matched (voltage and amperage) from the maker they still need resistors in series with each board?

 

I understand that a single board is optimal, but does that neccessarily make two separate boards a bad idea? Better without it completely if you use it in the DC cable path (close to the powered device)? The only thing you want to acheive using two boards is for devices requiring more than 1A. 

 John could answer this far better than I can, but provided that the well matched PCBs used identical length connecting leads to the joining point of the cables, it may not matter ? 

If one had a slightly lower voltage output, perhaps decreasing the length of it's output lead a little may help to ensure improved current output matching ?

 I defer to John's wealth of experience in this area though. 

I am here to learn too !

[gstew]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

Does this mean that even if the two LT3045 boards are completely matched (voltage and amperage) from the maker they still need resistors in series with each board?

 

I understand that a single board is optimal, but does that neccessarily make two separate boards a bad idea? Better without it completely if you use it in the DC cable path (close to the powered device)? The only thing you want to acheive using two boards is for devices requiring more than 1A. 

Cornan,

 

Have I got a solution for you! A fellow in Germany made up some paralleled LT3045 boards and is selling them on DIYAudio here:

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-post5227003.html

 

He has both boards with 2 sections of 3 paralleled LT3045 each (1.5A / section) and boards with a single section of 6 paralleled LT3045 for 3A. He'll sell raw boards (what I got), boards with the LT3045 already installed, or finished & tested boards

 

I just built one of the dual section boards up and it is working swimmingly powering my SDTrans384 SD Card player (which really only pulls 400mA max). I used .1% resistors to set the V-outs instead of the pots he shows and the 2 sides measured a measly .01V difference (4.92V & 4.93V). Each side is fed from an LPS-1 & are paralleled for 3A output max, overkill in this application.

 

Problem solved!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[sandyk]

Hi Greg

 You need to be careful here. The text book implementations of these ensures a very low ESR, which favours upper HF detail. Unless you change a few input capacitor types and values you may end up with overly etched HF detail.

 

This shouldn't  happen with Digital, but it does ,  even with SATA filters. The later SATA filters use much larger value electros which help to ensure a more balanced sound. (Previously I had a good play around with DIY SATA filters using L & C.)

 

Regards

Alex 

 

[JohnSwenson]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 John could answer this far better than I can, but provided that the well matched PCBs used identical length connecting leads to the joining point of the cables, it may not matter ? 

If one had a slightly lower voltage output, perhaps decreasing the length of it's output lead a little may help to ensure improved current output matching ?

 I defer to John's wealth of experience in this area though. 

I am here to learn too !

You CAN use the resistance of the interconnect cable as the ballast resistor, but if you do that the output voltages of the two boards have to be very closely matched. The boards need to be within at least 10mv of each other if you are going to use the cable length as the resistor. And that is 10mv at load. That is hard to achieve unless you have a pot setting at least one of them. Then you have to worry about the resistance of the pot changing as the board warms up. Its a very touchy thing to do.

 

You are MUCH better off getting a board designed to handle the load on one board.

 

John S.