Just got a Yggdrasil!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Good to read you got a Yggy George! It's a wonderful piece of equipment.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, GUTB said:

It's a 20-bit DAC in a 32-bit world. But more to the point, it doesn't support DSD or DXD.

 

Native DSD is very very good and DXD sounds amazing. A Yggdrasil owner will never get to enjoy those.

 

Also, high end DACs can resolve 24 bits of high definition audio...the Yggdrasil can't.

 

The DAC designers I talk to all say they can get 20 bits and possibly 21 on a good day with the wind at their backs. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

How many DACs out there have 32 bits of resolution (ENOB)? I am not talking 32 bit math here....

 

Zero. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Everyone should listen to a native DSD track through a high quality, resolving system. You won't understand how bad PCM is until you've heard the alternative.

 

With all due respect to your opinions, I disagree 100%. There are too many variables involved to say definitively that DSD or PCM is better than the other, let alone to "understand how bad PCM is until you've heard the alternative." We have to take the recordings we get and listen to each one and decide which one we like best. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 hours ago, TubeLover said:

 

I had not previously heard about this. Is anyone aware of what John Atkinson was exactly referring to when he called the Yggdrasil "obsolete"? I have significant respect for John, and his ears, but that's a ludicrous statement at best. And please tell me it wasn't associated with lacking MQA compatability because that would deserve a term beyond ludicrous.

 

JC

 

Such a statement has likely been good for business for both parties. There's no such thing as bad press, unless your Bill Cosby or Michael Richards. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 hours ago, gmgraves said:

SPDIF and AES/EBU sound better than USB, anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Jud said:

 

As always, this depends on individual implementations.  USB can obtain lower jitter numbers, SPDIF doesn't have to deal with data packets, power conductor in the cable, etc.  Specific implementations deal with these disadvantages more or less successfully.

 

I found AES to be the best Yggy interface. I unequivicolly love this DAC. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think people suggesting the Yggy has engineering or design flaws are really overreaching. If you were present during the design discussions, I would be more apt to listen to you. However, every design has trade offs. What's gained or given up for each decision. 

 

Everything in the Yggy is by design and it's one of my favorite DACs. To me, they made great trade offs. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

25 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

Auralic seem to have made better ones

 

Mani.

How so?

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Whenever the search function for the forum is up to it, you can see posts from people who had SDIF-3 inputs built for them in order to play DSD files.

 

Here are some search results:

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/search/?&q=sdif3&sortby=relevancy

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/search/?&q=sdif-3

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, earnmyturns said:

I was talking today with a colleague who is a real expert in signal processing (famous applied mathematician, worked for some well-known academic, government, and industrial outfits on cutting-edge signal analysis) and music recording (for a while he ran a recording studio on the side), who first told me about Schiit. He feels that Redbook is where good DACs really differ, because of how they handle mismatches between mastering and DAC anti-aliasing filters become audible so close to the top of the audible range. At 96/24 PCM, every decent DAC is competent. So, it's quite plausible that some listeners hear the benefits of the Schiit digital filter on Redbook, but those disappear at higher sampling rates, and then other characteristics might shift judgments. I own a lot of Redbook, and I still get a lot from smaller labels (such as via Bandcamp), but my higher res library is growing, so there's a Holo Spring level 3 on the way to hedge my bets. And to your second point, after buying the Yggy, going for the Spring as well became much easier

 

Very similar to what I've been told by DAC designers.  44.1 separates the men from the boys. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I asked Mike about building a Yggy with volume control and he looked at me like I asked him to help me move on a Sunday during football season. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

It's a......... DAC.  I would have looked at you like that too.  I know a few DACs have them (Sonica comes immediately to mind), but most don't. 

 

Looking at a selection of 15 DACs in my room right now, only five don't have volume control. Yggy, Bifrost, Emm Labs DA2 and D2X, and Audio Research DAC 9. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I get it.  But you're the guy with FIFTEEN DACs!!!

 

Ha! I forgot a couple including the McIntosh D1100 (that also has a volume control) :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

DACs with volume control makes a lot of sense to me. I usually have a single digital source and single analog output. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

In an increasingly digital source world, the DAC/preamp/network convergence makes a lot of sense.  It appears you can do it at a very very high level, perhaps only the last 1% or so smidgen of sound quality being reserved for separate box, and very expensive solutions...

 

I actually believe the last 1% can only be achieved with built-in volume control (analog or digital). A preamp adds another set of cables and a lot of circuitry to traverse just to control volume. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

Then what does your Pre-Amp do?   Or is it part of your DAC...hence the Volume control?

 

Depends on my system. Right now I'm writing a review of the Audio Research DAC 9. Preamp needed. Later I'll bypass the preamp with the dCS Rossini. Sometimes there's a better synergy with the preamp, other times not so much. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

OK, shall we try again then?

 

1. The Yggy has zero-crossing glitching distortion.

 

 

JA referred to these as "significant errors at the signal's zero-crossing points" [highlight mine]. Perhaps these are inaudible, but perhaps they're not.

 

2. The Yggy has problems with high level, high frequency tones.

 

 

I had a quick look at the other DACs Stereophile had reviewed and couldn't find anything anywhere near as bad as this. Do you really think this is going to be inaudible?

 

3. The Yggy has problems with the LSBs of 24-bit data.

 

 

The 24 bit noise is correlated with the signal, and peaks up above the 16 bit noise at certain points. You don't think this is going to be audible?

 

So, what are your counter-arguments?

 

Mani.

 

Can you help us understand what these issues around -130 db will sound like? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Not everything that matters can be measured and not everything that can be measured matters.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

To me, that quote is analogous to: "It's OK to believe in Santa Claus if you want.  No one has proven he doesn't exist".  It gives quarter to believers in audiophile magic.

 

To turn it another way, you must think all measurements matter?

 

If one component has noise at -150 dB and another at -140 dB, does it actually matter?

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Circling back to the Yggy:  The zero crossing glitch exists unquestionably.  Isn't the better question, "is it audible"?  "Does it matter" is an ideological question and always causes needless controversy.

 

I look at those two things closely, but a little different. Is it audible? No, then it doesn't matter to me. Yes, then I need to figure out if it's audible all the time or just with certain music etc... 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Maybe we agree, not sure.  If it's inaudible, then I think any further interest is quixotic.

 

Yes.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think before pointing fingers at anyone, we must consider their motives for doing anything. 

 

What does @manisandher have to gain by spending his time talking about a product (good or bad)? Chances are that he is just offering information, much the same as everyone else, to a community who can use and wants such information. 

 

Whether his info was right or wrong doesn't really matter. He put it out for public consumption and debate. 

 

Plus, we are all adults. We can read posts and judge their content. If Mani thinks the Yggy sucks, that doesn't make it so. I love e the Yggy. Mani's comments don't diminish my opinions at all. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

A glowing example of the kind of ever-so-slightly-below-the-radar trolling that the forum management is allowing Mani to engage in.

 

I learned a great deal about Computer Audiophile today. 

 

We are all adults here. If you want to be sensored for your opinion, you'll have to look elsewhere. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I'm not following you.  Mani did not perform the measurements and has only JA's "reputation" as a measure of accuracy and validity.  They are being presented as "factually correct information", when they could certainly be characterized as, "produced by an industry insider with any number of possible biases".

 

I'm willing to pay to have a Yggy measured by a third party if you have doubts about the measurements. I love the DAC and it helps me realize that certain measurements don't matter to me in my system. 

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

Mani has said the Chord 2 qute is awesome(and I do believe it is very good ) and said it is better than the Yggy. 

 

I can tell you that I listened to both for over a year and I completely disagree with that assessment as I felt the Yggy was superior in every way. I sold the Chord 2 qute but still liked it.

 

So based on his comparison of these two dacs , I give little weight to his opinions.  

 

 

I like the color red. You like the color blue. Do to this, you give little weight to my opinions. 

 

I encourage you to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I'm not following you Chris.  Why would you do that if you don't care?  I don't care either.  But I certainly view anything that comes from JA as suspect.

 

I just like to make sure we have all the facts with which to work. If there's reason to believe the measurements aren't right, it could be of great service to get them done again. Plus, if these measurements correspond to this sound, people will have this information to help them if they so choose.