Just got a Yggdrasil!

[crenca]

14 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

I'm not sure what you're saying. The test is about the harmonic distortion of the DAC - you can see that all the distortion peaks are multiples of the 50Hz fundamental. Most DACs have reasonably low distortion even into punishing 600 ohm loads. But the Yggy showed terrible performance into 600 ohms, so he seems to have given it another go into a benign 100k.

 

Mani.

 

Yes, but the Yggy showed "terrible" performance into 100K ohms as well - worse than the Altair into 600 ohms.  This seems to indicate (if I am not mistaken) that it is not about the ohm rating at all (the Yggy is "terrible" no matter the ohm load and the Altair is good/acceptable/normal/expected no matter the ohm rating).  

 

If it is not about the ohm rating than the test revealed this performance difference "by accident" as it were.  What am I missing?  A whole lot know doubt

[manisandher]

2 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Yes, but the Yggy showed "terrible" performance into 100K ohms as well - worse than the Altair into 600 ohms.

 

No, I don't think the Yggy's performance into 100k is "terrible". Below average for sure.

 

Mani.

[crenca]

2 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

No, I don't think the Yggy's performance into 100k is "terrible". Below average for sure.

 

Mani.

 

 

Just using the word you used  

 

Is this harmonic distortion worse/similar than those tubeified DAC's (e.g. Lampizator) I wonder?

[Ralf11]

What does the crossover distortion sound like?

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Which is *exactly* what is wrong here.  Suddenly saying something perfectly ordinary and true about another person is "picking sides." What are these "sides," exactly?  Like or dislike Yggy?  I like it.  Like or dislike Mani?  Is this high school, and I don't get to sit at the cool kids' lunch table, 'cause saying "He ain't so bad" about a kid who's disliked means I'm uncool too?

 

You're triangulating.  This thread started as someone who recently received a Yggy sharing in the experience.  I submit that a forum newcomer would not have been afforded the amount of tolerance that Mani was for crapping all over the thread.  Even now, you're trying to find some way to save some face by subtly inferring immaturity on my part.

 

I'm sorry Jud, you have to own some amount of Mani's rudeness in this thread.  He might be an angel in all the other threads.  I only became aware of his existence in this thread.  So perhaps my sample size is small.  But I will say that even in this post, you're still defending his incivility, apparently at my expense.  So be it.

 

When Hiro started slagging the Yggy, Chris asked Hiro to start a new thread for Yggy slagging.  The fact that reps from Schiit themselves came into the thread might have had something to do with that.  But I'm still rather stunned that Mani's threadcrapping here seems to be formally sanctioned.  No amount of trying to shame me into admitting to immature behavior will change that.  I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

[hornytoad]

32 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

The issue isn't JA.  The issue is a thread that was started for an audience much closer to Schiit's target demographic being utterly crapped on by someone outside of that demographic trying very hard (for reasons I still don't quite understand) to "educate" everyone about how apparently awful the Yggy is.

Possibly ulterior  motives as Mani is very close to his dac manufacturer . Fact ! 

[manisandher]

2 minutes ago, crenca said:

Just using the word you used  

 

But I was referring to the Yggy's 600 ohm performance, and not its 100k ohm performance. I never mentioned anything like "terrible 100k performance", because I don't think it is.

 

Mani.

 

24 minutes ago, manisandher said:

But the Yggy showed terrible performance into 600 ohms, so he seems to have given it another go into a benign 100k.

[crenca]

Just now, manisandher said:

 

But I was referring to the Yggy's 600 ohm performance, and not its 100k ohm performance. I never mentioned anything like "terrible 100k performance", because I don't think it is.

 

Mani.

 

 

 

Ah, I see.  Still, it is certainly more than typical for modern SD chip designs.  I wonder if it is comparable to these tubeified DAC's...

[GUTB]

Also, if you look at the comments posted on the Stereophile review, JA says Schiit's claim of LSBs not being truncated is false because he says the measurements show that they are, in fact, being truncated.

[Samuel T Cogley]

Ah, but Schiit are the heretics to Stereophile's Pharisees.  That's the reason they named their company "Schiit"

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Also, if you look at the comments posted on the Stereophile review, JA says Schiit's claim of LSBs not being truncated is false because he says the measurements show that they are, in fact, being truncated.

 

When you have 24-bit data but 20-bit DACs, you need to dither those data to match the DAC. Otherwise, simply chopping off the 4 LSBs, called "truncation," reintroduces quantizing distortion. Schiit's Jason Stoddard has subsequently said that the Yggdrasil "rounds" 24-bit data but my measurements suggest that the LSBs of 24-bit data are simply truncated.

 

JA, Stereophile.

[Samuel T Cogley]

In all the Schiit bashing, I wonder if it's occurred to any bashers that perhaps Schiit's designs anticipated tests like the ones run by JA (the Ragnarok certainly comes to mind) and were intentionally designed to fail the tests.

 

Maybe the joke's on JA?

 

Perhaps the disdain by the old school audiophile elite is a badge of honor for Jason and Mike?

[manisandher]

I forgot to add something else important that JA said:

 

Quote

When you have 24-bit data but 20-bit DACs, you need to dither those data to match the DAC. Otherwise, simply chopping off the 4 LSBs, called "truncation," reintroduces quantizing distortion. Schiit's Jason Stoddard has subsequently said that the Yggdrasil "rounds" 24-bit data but my measurements suggest that the LSBs of 24-bit data are simply truncated.

... truncation of the LSBs in 24-bit data reintroduces quantization noise/distortion. Research by people like Bob Katz has shown that this will be audible even with real-world DACs.

 

I'm assuming he's talking about this:

 

 

Earlier, people asked whether these effects, seemingly way down in dB, were audible. Well, apparently they are. Again, they map quite nicely to the comments people made when they heard the Yggy file I posted last year.

 

Mani.

[crenca]

11 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

In all the Schiit bashing, I wonder if it's occurred to any bashers that perhaps Schiit's designs anticipated tests like the ones run by JA (the Ragnarok certainly comes to mind) and were intentionally designed to fail the tests.

 

Maybe the joke's on JA?

 

Perhaps the disdain by the old school audiophile elite is a badge of honor for Jason and Mike?

 

That Ragnarok measurement is a head scratcher for sure.  The truth is that Jason and Mike are definitively stepping out of the normal design box.  I for one appreciate it because how else do you innovate?  The fact that neither the Ragnarok nor the Yggy measure "normally" or "well" given their designs can mean more than one thing, but the measurements used I think are not trivial - they do correlate well historically with better/good sound and are in the main non-controversial.  The fact that both are well regarded and are generally reviewed as sounding at the top of the class as far as their price points go also is important obviously.

 

 

[JoeWhip]

This thread has run its course and has veered so far off the original posters intent that it should be closed. I would suggest that Mani start his own thread. On most other forums I post on, this would have been taken care of by the moderator. It is too bad that it has had to go this far off course. 

[Silly goose]

Who gives a Schiit. Buy a set of all in 1 actives, and start enjoying music, rather than arguing about steam engines. 

[manisandher]

2 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

This thread has run its course and has veered so far off the original posters intent...

 

What was his 'original intent'? Let me help you...

 

The OP is a reviewer. He has been sent an Yggy for review. In this circumstance, I think my sharing of factually correct information about the Yggy is perfectly legitimate.

 

Mani.

[hornytoad]

10 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

This thread has run its course and has veered so far off the original posters intent that it should be closed. I would suggest that Mani start his own thread. On most other forums I post on, this would have been taken care of by the moderator. It is too bad that it has had to go this far off course. 

The thread should be called "Mani hates the Yggy" . Or " Mani can sniff out a Schiit Yggy topic all the way from the U.K " 

 

 

[Ralf11]

Yexit??

[Dr Tone]

3 hours ago, fheller said:

I dont get it why a Tech thing can produce such emotional outbursts.

Its only a discussion about a Dac.

Its not about anything that really matters (or should) in life.

 

It's just one of those things that happens when a person spends their hard earned money on a product and then someone says it sucks.

 

There's no right or wrong it's just personal preference in the end.

 

 

[manisandher]

5 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

" Mani can sniff out a Schiit Yggy topic all the way from the U.K " 

 

 

One of these days, you're going to say something factually correct, but I'll not hold my breath.

 

5 hours ago, manisandher said:

I've just done a quick search for recent Schiit threads here. Let's see how many I've actually posted on, shall we?

 

Just got a Yggdrasil!... Yep!

WyrdSchiit... Nah

Schiit Saga vs Freya... Nah.

Schiit multibit Gungnir vs Modi multibit... Nah

Schiit Yggdrasil driver issues... Nah

Schiit Modi 2 Multibit (iFi iPurifier SPDIF)... Nah

Schiit gungnir unrecognized... Nah

Anyone compared the Ayre Codex toSchiit Yggdrasil?... Nah

Advise needed for mySchiit Bifrost... Nah

Ayre Codex andSchiit multi-bit... Nah

Schiit DACs and 24 bit files on a 16 bit DAC... Nah

...

 

 

Mani.

[Samuel T Cogley]

20 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

That Ragnarok measurement is a head scratcher for sure.  The truth is that Jason and Mike are definitively stepping out of the normal design box.  I for one appreciate it because how else do you innovate?  The fact that neither the Ragnarok nor the Yggy measure "normally" or "well" given their designs can mean more than one thing, but the measurements used I think are not trivial - they do correlate well historically with better/good sound and are in the main non-controversial.  The fact that both are well regarded and are generally reviewed as sounding at the top of the class as far as their price points go also is important obviously.

 

 

 

I would say that Jason and (especially) Mike do not share the typical amount of respect for JA that he enjoys from "traditional" audiophiles.

 

I still say there's a chance that the designs are intentional with regards to anticipating the testing by "traditional" audiophiles.

[Samuel T Cogley]

13 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

What was his 'original intent'? Let me help you...

 

The OP is a reviewer. He has been sent an Yggy for review. In this circumstance, I think my sharing of factually correct information about the Yggy is perfectly legitimate.

 

Mani.

 

But it's second hand, correct?  The OP was providing his first hand insights and you were regurgitating JA?  And that's what passes here for "perfectly legitimate"?

[patagent]

6 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

But it's second hand, correct?  The OP was providing his first hand insights and you were regurgitating JA?  And that's what passes here for "perfectly legitimate"?

 

Did OP produce graphs?  If he did then what you're reasoning is valid.  Otherwise, his first hand subjective impressions are no more or less valid than Mani's first hand impressions (which he has made known).

[hornytoad]

12 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

 

One of these days, you're going to say something factually correct, but I'll not hold my breath.

 

 

Mani.

So you havent listened to those items. Big damn deal. Your stats mean nothing. You fail to add in other threads like the Chord 2 qute where you compared it to .........drum roll ... the Yggy!