Just got a Yggdrasil!

[Samuel T Cogley]

Just now, manisandher said:

 

You didn't answer my question. Who are you talking about here?

 

Mani.

 

And there's a lot of my questions you didn't answer.  I'm not going to engage with you, sorry.  Despite my respect for Jud's usually informed opinions about various and sundry things, I think he gives you way too much credit for being a reasonable person.

 

Hope that helps

 

Have a nice day

[Jud]

23 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

All I know is Mani said the Chord 2 Qute was great and better than the Yggy (in Chord 2 qute thread) 

 

I had both for over a year and I completely disagree. 

 

So I really don't take much credence is his remarks. 

 

Which is fine and wonderful.  I do exactly the same, as I'm sure most of us do: Does this guy's taste run in the same direction as mine?  If so, I'll pay attention to what he says about X component, which I haven't had the chance to hear.  If he tends to like stuff I don't, I'll likely ignore the next great thing he finds, or his dislike of a component, because my evaluation could well differ.

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

And there's a lot of my questions you didn't answer.  I'm not going to engage with you, sorry.  Despite my respect for Jud's usually informed opinions about various and sundry things, I think he gives you way too much credit for being a reasonable person.

 

Hope that helps

 

Have a nice day

 

Well, you could try reading his non-Yggy posts.

 

Or not. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

6 minutes ago, Tone Deaf said:

 

It is a fair test.  It isn't that common, but some preamps do have very low input impedances, and performance into that load would be very useful to know in that case.

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dartzeel-nhb-18ns-preamplifier-measurements#qyA0jjObyeAs1I0Z.97

 

"The input impedance was an extremely low 640 ohms, while the output impedance was a high 2500 ohms at low and midrange frequencies, rising to 3080 ohms at 20kHz. The input impedance is too low for many source components to give their best performance, the output impedance a little high for some power amplifiers."
 

 

The standard for line level input impedance is 10,000 ohms.  Perhaps exotic, boutique gear disregards this.  I don't think that's the Yggy's target demographic.

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

And there's a lot of my questions you didn't answer.

 

Which of your questions did I not answer?

 

Mani.

[Jud]

11 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

According to Jud, your awesome system and post count grants you significant cache here.  You'll have to ask him.

 

Can someone help me find the "eyeroll" emoji?   

 

I say I've always found a guy reasonable in our past encounters and admire his system, and suddenly CA is an arm of the Illuminati?

[Samuel T Cogley]

Just now, Jud said:

 

Can someone help me find the "eyeroll" emoji?   

 

I say I've always found a guy reasonable in our past encounters and admire his system, and suddenly CA is an arm of the Illuminati?

 

I see you as second only to Chris as the "voice of the forum".  I think many would agree with that observation.  You can mock me all you want with disingenuous innuendo of paranoia.  You chose sides.

[manisandher]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 You can mock me all you want with disingenuous innuendo of paranoia.

 

No innuendo required.

 

Which of your questions did I not answer?

 

Mani.

[crenca]

8 minutes ago, Tone Deaf said:

 

It is a fair test.  It isn't that common, but some preamps do have very low input impedances, and performance into that load would be very useful to know in that case.

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dartzeel-nhb-18ns-preamplifier-measurements#qyA0jjObyeAs1I0Z.97

 

"The input impedance was an extremely low 640 ohms, while the output impedance was a high 2500 ohms at low and midrange frequencies, rising to 3080 ohms at 20kHz. The input impedance is too low for many source components to give their best performance, the output impedance a little high for some power amplifiers."
 

 

 

Thanks Tone Deaf - I was not aware anyone produced pre-amps with such a rating - is this (as Samuel T notes) really something that should be allowed for in a design?  Is the standard really 10,000 k ohms and if so, is this example of yours simply the exception that proves the rule?

 

Seems like to me that we (or rather JA's test - perhaps it is not "his" however and is an industry standard expectation??) are asking for too much - we are asking for the compact car to be designed to pull a 10k trailer even though no one does this except a handful of yahoo's...

 

In other words, I am still not seeing why a consumer (well, all but a tiny handful) would care about this test - it seems to be a "gotcha" of some sort.  Is there a valid EE reason why a consumer would want their DAC to drive a 600 ohm load as easily as a standard 10K one?

[Samuel T Cogley]

1 minute ago, crenca said:

Is the standard really 10,000 k ohms

 

Yes

[crenca]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Yes

 

 

That is what I thought - is there a class of "vintage" audiophile gear that does not meet this standard and thus the old audiophile guys for whom is JA's target audience expect DAC's to be able to go beyond the spec?

 

What is the reason for this test?

[Samuel T Cogley]

Just now, crenca said:

 

 

That is what I thought - is there a class of "vintage" audiophile gear that does not meet this standard and thus the old audiophile guys for whom is JA's target audience expect DAC's to be able to go beyond the spec?

 

What is the reason for this test?

 

That JA wanted to show that the Yggy belonged with the "boys", and not the "men"?

[crenca]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

That JA wanted to show that the Yggy belonged with the "boys", and not the "men"?

 

But he does this test on every DAC he measures, right?  This test is not about the Yggy - it must be something else...

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

...we are all adults. ...

 

you're a dreamer, right?

 

maybe you're not the only one

 

and someday people may join you (on the internet)

 

but only an alien space invasion would make the world live as one

 

(sorry John L.)

[Tone Deaf]

1 minute ago, crenca said:

 

 

Thanks Tone Deaf - I was not aware anyone produced pre-amps with such a rating - is this (as Samuel T notes) really something that should be allowed for in a design?  Is the standard really 10,000 k ohms and if so, is this example of yours simply the exception that proves the rule?

 

Seems like to me that we (or rather JA's test - perhaps it is not "his" however and is an industry standard expectation??) are asking for too much - we are asking for the compact car to be designed to pull a 10k trailer even though no one does this except a handful of yahoo's...

 

In other words, I am still not seeing why a consumer (well, all but a tiny handful) would care about this test - it seems to be a "gotcha" of some sort.  Is there a valid EE reason why a consumer would want their DAC to drive a 600 ohm load as easily as a standard 10K one?

 

I doubt one would ever see such performance in solid state designs, but such performance pops up occasionally in tube designs, more so in the less expensive and additionally some of the esoteric designs such as the one I referenced.  

 

You are likely correct that most consumers wouldn't care about this test.  However most consumers also don't read Stereophile.  If I were a tube sort of listener, I would want to know the results of this test.  I'm with Mani regarding the validity of it.

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

But he does this test on every DAC he measures, right?  This test is not about the Yggy - it must be something else...

 

If anyone would test exotic, high ticket, boutique gear, it would be JA.  I say again that for the Yggy, the test is meaningless because the boutique space is not where Schiit plays.  Think more Head-Fi and less The Absolute Sound.

[Tone Deaf]

27 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

The standard for line level input impedance is 10,000 ohms.  Perhaps exotic, boutique gear disregards this.  I don't think that's the Yggy's target demographic.

 

Agree 100%.  Yggy's "target" demographic should take note of the results, and move on.  Doesn't mean JA shouldn't include the test in his standard suite of tests simply because it doesn't apply to the "target" demographic for the Yggy.

[crenca]

7 minutes ago, Tone Deaf said:

 

I doubt one would ever see such performance in solid state designs, but such performance pops up occasionally in tube designs, more so in the less expensive and additionally some of the esoteric designs such as the one I referenced.  

 

You are likely correct that most consumers wouldn't care about this test.  However most consumers also don't read Stereophile.  If I were a tube sort of listener, I would want to know the results of this test.  I'm with Mani regarding the validity of it.

 

7 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

If anyone would test exotic, high ticket, boutique gear, it would be JA.  I say again that for the Yggy, the test is meaningless because the boutique space is not where Schiit plays.  Think more Head-Fi and less The Absolute Sound.

 

 

Thanks - I almost mentioned tube gear.  Anyone know of any current tube gear (or any other kind) that sells more than a 100 units annually with line in's under say, 2k ohm that someone would conceivably plug a DAC into?

[manisandher]

9 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

But he does this test on every DAC he measures, right?  This test is not about the Yggy - it must be something else...

 

 

It's interesting, he does indeed perform the 600 ohm test on all DACs, which most simply coast through. For the Yggy, he made a concession (due no doubt to its poor performance into 600 ohms), and did the test into 100k too:

 

 

Not surprisingly, the Yggy is worse into 100k than the Altair is into 600 ohms.

 

Mani.

[Samuel T Cogley]

8 minutes ago, Tone Deaf said:

 

Agree 100%.  Yggy's "target" demographic should take note of the results, and move on.  Doesn't mean JA shouldn't include the test in his standard suite of tests simply because it doesn't apply to the "target" demographic for the Yggy.

 

The issue isn't JA.  The issue is a thread that was started for an audience much closer to Schiit's target demographic being utterly crapped on by someone outside of that demographic trying very hard (for reasons I still don't quite understand) to "educate" everyone about how apparently awful the Yggy is.

[crenca]

4 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

 

It's interesting, he does indeed perform the 600 ohm test on all DACs, which most simply coast through. For the Yggy, he made a concession (due no doubt to its poor performance into 600 ohms), and did the test into 100k too:

 

 

Not surprisingly, the Yggy is worse into 100k than the Altair is into 600 ohms.

 

Mani.

 

Now that is interesting - so this reveals (if I understand it correctly) that the performance revealed by the test is not about the ohm rating but something else entirely - it is not even correlated to the ohm rating...

[manisandher]

Just now, crenca said:

 

Now that is interesting - so this reveals (if I understand it correctly) that the performance revealed by the test is not about the ohm rating but something else entirely - it is not even correlated to the ohm rating...

 

I'm not sure what you're saying. The test is about the harmonic distortion of the DAC - you can see that all the distortion peaks are multiples of the 50Hz fundamental. Most DACs have reasonably low distortion even into punishing 600 ohm loads. But the Yggy showed terrible performance into 600 ohms, so he seems to have given it another go into a benign 100k.

 

Mani.

[LarryMagoo]

14 hours ago, earnmyturns said:

I have frequent front-row seats for performances at SFJAZZ, and I also listen to albums by the same musicians often through my 2-channel system, in which the Yggy was the last component to be added. It was only after that that I lost any desire to upgrade the system to get closer to my frequent live music experiences. I have a Holo Spring 3 on order for my office system (Why the Spring instead of another Yggy? Because variety is the spice of life, that's why. ) so I might have to eat my words after I have heard it thoroughly, but in the meanwhile my living room is finally a capable proxy for those days live music is not available.

Fernando,

 

It will good to hear your comparison of the two DAC's...especially since they are both R2R technology.  I know the Solo does DSD which I have no interest in at the moment.   The Yggy was built with two different PSs.  One for Analog and one for Digital, It does not look like the Solo was built in that manner so I am looking forward to your comments...

[Jud]

39 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

You chose sides.

 

Which is *exactly* what is wrong here.  Suddenly saying something perfectly ordinary and true about another person is "picking sides." What are these "sides," exactly?  Like or dislike Yggy?  I like it.  Like or dislike Mani?  Is this high school, and I don't get to sit at the cool kids' lunch table, 'cause saying "He ain't so bad" about a kid who's disliked means I'm uncool too?

[manisandher]

Jud, you calling me 'uncool'? That be fighting talk.

 

Mani.