Just got a Yggdrasil!

[crenca]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

 

It's a standard test that JA subjects every DAC to. The Yggy struggled in a way that very few other DACs have.

 

 

 

Is this particular test controversial from an EE perspective?  Up until now, I thought that the general consensus was that JA's testing methodology for DAC's and amp's was fairly non-controversial, and his testing methodology for speakers somewhat controversial (like I said upstream I have read multiple complaints/nitpicks from the like of Andrew Jones and others).

 

Off the top of my head, it does seem strange to test a DAC into a 600 ohm load does it not?  

[hornytoad]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think before pointing fingers at anyone, we must consider their motives for doing anything. 

 

What does @manisandher have to gain by spending his time talking about a product (good or bad)? Chances are that he is just offering information, much the same as everyone else, to a community who can use and wants such information. 

 

Whether his info was right or wrong doesn't really matter. He put it out for public consumption and debate. 

 

Plus, we are all adults. We can read posts and judge their content. If Mani thinks the Yggy sucks, that doesn't make it so. I love e the Yggy. Mani's comments don't diminish my opinions at all. 

MAni has gone out of his way to disparage the Yggdrasil.  This measurement stuff was posted by him a million times before ,wasn't it? 

[manisandher]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

What does @manisandher have to gain by spending his time talking about a product (good or bad)? Chances are that he is just offering information, much the same as everyone else, to a community who can use and wants such information.

 

Exactly.

 

I started the thread, DAC test - 'Old School' vs. 'New Kid' just because I thought it might interest some people. I actually paid close to $5k to get hold of the DACs I used in the thread. What did I get out of this? Nothing, other than satisfying my interest. Actually, it led on to another thread that I found particularly interesting, How can a non-oversampling DAC sound good? I learned a lot of really interesting things there.

 

And this is how I've tended to operate on CA for the last 7 years or so.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

MAni has gone out of his way to disparage the Yggdrasil.  This measurement stuff was posted by him a million times before ,wasn't it? 

 

No. All the graphs I've posted in this thread have never been posted on CA before (to my knowledge). They're only 3 months old.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 minutes ago, crenca said:

Is this particular test controversial from an EE perspective? 

 

No, I don't think it is at all. Putting a component under a stress test can be quite insightful.

 

Mani.

[Speed Racer]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Many months ago, another Yggy thread here got "Mola Mola"-ed.  This isn't an issue of "preference", it's a concerted effort to create a significant volume of negative Yggy posts on social media.

 

Can I triple like this???

[Speed Racer]

48 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think before pointing fingers at anyone, we must consider their motives for doing anything. 

 

What does @manisandher have to gain by spending his time talking about a product (good or bad)? Chances are that he is just offering information, much the same as everyone else, to a community who can use and wants such information. 

 

Whether his info was right or wrong doesn't really matter. He put it out for public consumption and debate. 

 

Plus, we are all adults. We can read posts and judge their content. If Mani thinks the Yggy sucks, that doesn't make it so. I love e the Yggy. Mani's comments don't diminish my opinions at all. 

 

I don't know and don't care what or if he has anything to gain. The last time this all came up, he did seem to be working rather closely with the maker of his DAC. Maybe their is some issue there for him.

 

But it doesn't matter. What matters is that he brings this crap up all over again when I am sure he knew it would be controversial. This magical recoding he made. How real is that. How come there is a problem in that recoding yet 99% of the people that own the DAC never have issues with the tracks they listen too. I don't get you and Jud defending him like this. I too feel like this is some kind of "old timers club".

 

I don't care whether or not he likes Yggdrasil. What I care about is that he sounds just as crazy as JA when he talks about it. JA doesn't get a pass because of who he is and neither should this guy. His ranting on this subject ruins his credibility with me for all other subjects so I chose to block him. His comments do NOTHING to change my opinions one way or another. 

[Jud]

12 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Can I triple like this???

 

Sure.  Go team.

 

(As I've mentioned before, I've heard Yggy and liked it, liked the Mike Moffat-designed DACs I owned for 20+ years, and think Mike is a very smart man.  I have a feeling this will be felt insufficient, however.)

[hornytoad]

22 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

No. All the graphs I've posted in this thread have never been posted on CA before (to my knowledge). They're only 3 months old.

 

Mani.

So you posted your own measurements.

 

I thought you were bored with this thread?  

[crenca]

12 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

No, I don't think it is at all. Putting a component under a stress test can be quite insightful.

 

Mani.

 

Ok, I can see how in general pushing something beyond its design limit reveals...its limitations??  But what does this particular test (a DAC "driving" a 600 ohm line out load) reveal?  In the real world, a DAC will never do this sort of thing as far as I am aware - sort of like hooking up a compact car to a 10,000 lb trailer and say "see, it can barely get moving and it overheats real quick and...".  Well yea, of course.  This is not really much of an insight.

 

Is this test just designed to show that some DAC designs have not overbuilt it's analogue output section to an n'th degree (in this case a 600 ohm n'th degree) and this reveals what sort of insights - that some DAC's have an overbuilt output section?

 

By the way I have no dog in this fight - I have not heard the Yggy and have no need to defend it but I am wondering what this sort of "stress" test is supposed to reveal and why a consumer would care.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

I too feel like this is some kind of "old timers club".

 

Yeah, all us folks who don't hate Mani, we're in on the conspiracy with regular meetings and stuff like that.  'Cause how reasonable could anyone be not to hate the guy who dissed the DAC you own?

[manisandher]

2 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

So you posted your own measurements.

 

Are you a bit slow? All the measurements I've posted in this thread are from the Stereophile review of the Yggy, that was published in January this year.

 

As a result of the review, Stereophile gave the Yggy a class B rating, which I think is about right, based on my time with it.

 

Mani.

[hornytoad]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

Yeah, all us folks who don't hate Mani, we're in on the conspiracy with regular meetings and stuff like that.  'Cause how reasonable could anyone be not to hate the guy who dissed the DAC you own?

All I know is Mani said the Chord 2 Qute was great and better than the Yggy (in Chord 2 qute thread) 

 

I had both for over a year and I completely disagree. 

 

So I really don't take much credence is his remarks. 

[hornytoad]

2 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

Are you a bit slow? All the measurements I've posted in this thread are from the Stereophile review of the Yggy, that was published in January this year.

 

As a result of the review, Stereophile gave the Yggy a class B rating, which I think is about right, based on my time with it.

 

Mani.

I'm taking about a prior Yggdrasil thread .You were posting your own measurements or someone elses,correct? 

[hornytoad]

5 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

Are you a bit slow? All the measurements I've posted in this thread are from the Stereophile review of the Yggy, that was published in January this year.

 

As a result of the review, Stereophile gave the Yggy a class B rating, which I think is about right, based on my time with it.

 

Mani.

And yet he has the Benchmardk dac2 at A+ ,another dac I listened to for over a yer and sold. 

 

The Yggdrasil was completely superior and the treble harshness of the dac2 was unbearable at times. 

 

 

[manisandher]

5 minutes ago, crenca said:

... sort of like hooking up a compact car to a 10,000 lb trailer and say "see, it can barely get moving and it overheats real quick and...".  Well yea, of course.  This is not really much of an insight.

 

I see it more of a 'Nürburgring time' sort of test. It's not particularly relevant to the way most owners would use the car on a day-to-day basis, but does sort the men from the boys.

 

Mani.

[LarryMagoo]

This discussion has got so boring, I'm checking out of it entirely!!!    

[Speed Racer]

16 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Yeah, all us folks who don't hate Mani, we're in on the conspiracy with regular meetings and stuff like that.  'Cause how reasonable could anyone be not to hate the guy who dissed the DAC you own?

 

Hate? I don't care enough to hate anyone here....and I don't care if he likes or dislikes the DAC I own. So your position on that is way off base. All I have ever experienced of this guy is his unusual disdain for a certain DAC. I experienced this here well before I ever thought I would ever spend over $500 on a DAC and had no horse in the race.

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

This discussion has got so boring, I'm checking out of it entirely!!!    

 

Yes, this thread has been rendered useless. I am out too........

[Samuel T Cogley]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

I see it more of a 'Nürburgring time' sort of test. It's not particularly relevant to the way most owners would use the car on a day-to-day basis, but does sort the men from the boys.

 

A glowing example of the kind of ever-so-slightly-below-the-radar trolling that the forum management is allowing Mani to engage in.

 

I learned a great deal about Computer Audiophile today. 

[crenca]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

I see it more of a 'Nürburgring time' sort of test. It's not particularly relevant to the way most owners would use the car on a day-to-day basis, but does sort the men from the boys.

 

Mani.

 

 

But..but...but...  why?  Why does this particular test "sort the men from the boys"??  In what conceivable world would a DAC drive a 600ohm load?  When the preamp/integraded/active speakers it is supply a signal to is malfunctioning?? Are DAC's directly driving headphones or something out there?

 

Anyone want to take a stab at this question - I don't mean to pick on Mani here but as far as I can tell this test of JA's is asking for something irrelevant from the consumers point of view...

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

I learned a great deal about Computer Audiophile today. 

 

So have I! I am totally flabbergasted at the level of paranoia among some people here. An 'old-timers' club' here on CA? WTF?

 

Mani.

[Samuel T Cogley]

2 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

So have I! I am totally flabbergasted at the level of paranoia among some people here. An 'old-timers' club' here on CA? WTF?

 

Mani.

 

According to Jud, your awesome system and post count grants you significant cache here.  You'll have to ask him.

[manisandher]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

He claims to have auditioned the Yggy.

 

You didn't answer my question. Who are you talking about here?

 

Mani.

[Tone Deaf]

13 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

But..but...but...  why?  Why does this particular test "sort the men from the boys"??  In what conceivable world would a DAC drive a 600ohm load?  When the preamp/integraded/active speakers it is supply a signal to is malfunctioning?? Are DAC's directly driving headphones or something out there?

 

Anyone want to take a stab at this question - I don't mean to pick on Mani here but as far as I can tell this test of JA's is asking for something irrelevant from the consumers point of view...

 

It is a fair test.  It isn't that common, but some preamps do have very low input impedances, and performance into that load would be very useful to know in that case.

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dartzeel-nhb-18ns-preamplifier-measurements#qyA0jjObyeAs1I0Z.97

 

"The input impedance was an extremely low 640 ohms, while the output impedance was a high 2500 ohms at low and midrange frequencies, rising to 3080 ohms at 20kHz. The input impedance is too low for many source components to give their best performance, the output impedance a little high for some power amplifiers."