The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

Something is wrong with my iphone, since yesterday it keeps logging me out of all websites including CA, frustrating!

 

Annoying issue!  Never experianced it myself so I cannot give you any good suggestions though. I hope you´ll solve it! 

[mozes]

Working on it

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, mozes said:

There us a always a reason for everything even if we don't know what it

 

I hope you´re right. I really want this Ariston RD40 turntable. It is a tweakers dream! 

[Cornan]

Just packed these two Gophert floating PSUs up for my A setup.

 

 

It's time to decide where I want to start? ? I think I will start slowly by connecting one to my Aries Mini on 16V/5A and the other one dedicated to the Brooklyn DAC 5v USB injection only. This means that both the AQVOX switch and the USB Regen will stay battery powered for now and Brooklyn powered via the DC blocker trap filter>Peaktech2240 floating IT>AC>built-in SMPS. I'll just need to make two Canare starquad to get this going. No evaluation will be done until the weekend when my Fostex finally arrives.

[mozes]

18 hours ago, Cornan said:

Just packed these two Gophert floating PSUs up for my A setup.

 

 

It's time to decide where I want to start? ? I think I will start slowly by connecting one to my Aries Mini on 16V/5A and the other one dedicated to the Brooklyn DAC 5v USB injection only. This means that both the AQVOX switch and the USB Regen will stay battery powered for now and Brooklyn powered via the DC blocker trap filter>Peaktech2240 floating IT>AC>built-in SMPS. I'll just need to make two Canare starquad to get this going. No evaluation will be done until the weekend when my Fostex finally arrives.

Is it optimal that you position the AQVOX switch on top of the Brooklyn? If you are out of space, maybe you can consider hanging the switch on the wall with two small screws. I do this with my router and its battery to get them away from my gear, and then the ethernet cable will be suspended without touching anything

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, mozes said:

Is it optimal that you position the AQVOX switch on top of the Brooklyn? If you are out of space, maybe you can consider hanging the switch on the wall with two small screws. I do this with my router and its battery to get them away from my gear, and then the ethernet cable will be suspended without touching anything

 

I have tried the AQVOX on a separate shelf as well, but could´nt notice any difference in sq. To be a bit calmer about it (plus giving it extra damping) I just put it on sorbothane feets to get a bit of a distance between the Brooklyn DAC and the AQVOX. In the end it will get a better position, but right now too many things will come and go in my A setup. When I know what I want to stay I will make a better permanent place for it. One thing is sure though. If I nailed it on my wall my GF would freak out completely. She is still mad about the holes I made in that very same wall when I had my Monkey Banana 5 speakers there on wall stands (sounded aweful on the wall btw). The 8 small holes is still there as a reminder for her! 

 

I did a quick listen with one Gophert floating PSU powering my Aries Mini and the second one for USB injection. Even though I was disabled using my plain vanilla Beyerdynamics T50P I did find that it improved the sq with Tidal MQA. The funny thing is that it first sounded a bit dull, until I realized that I had forgotten to remove the charger for my two battery supplies. Removed them and voila, everthing sounded glorious again. I cannot emphasis enough how important it is for SQ to remove the battery chargers.

Next up with be to make a Y-split to power both Regen and Brooklyn USB injection with 5V/5,1A and just leave the AQVOX on battery supply. After that I will try the Aqvox with the original AQVOX modded PSU into my Peaktech 2240. Evaluate and re-evaluate! 

[mozes]

17 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I have tried the AQVOX on a separate shelf as well, but could´nt notice any difference in sq. To be a bit calmer about it (plus giving it extra damping) I just put it on sorbothane feets to get a bit of a distance between the Brooklyn DAC and the AQVOX. In the end it will get a better position, but right now too many things will come and go in my A setup. When I know what I want to stay I will make a better permanent place for it. One thing is sure though. If I nailed it on my wall my GF would freak out completely. She is still mad about the holes I made in that very same wall when I had my Monkey Banana 5 speakers there on wall stands (sounded aweful on the wall btw). The 8 small holes is still there as a reminder for her! 

 

I did a quick listen with one Gophert floating PSU powering my Aries Mini and the second one for USB injection. Even though I was disabled using my plain vanilla Beyerdynamics T50P I did find that it improved the sq with Tidal MQA. The funny thing is that it first sounded a bit dull, until I realized that I had forgotten to remove the charger for my two battery supplies. Removed them and voila, everthing sounded glorious again. I cannot emphasis enough how important it is for SQ to remove the battery chargers.

Next up with be to make a Y-split to power both Regen and Brooklyn USB injection with 5V/5,1A and just leave the AQVOX on battery supply. After that I will try the Aqvox with the original AQVOX modded PSU into my Peaktech 2240. Evaluate and re-evaluate! 

Lol if the GF is upset don't it

My wife lost the battle with me, she gave up after hoplessly trying over the years. 

[austinpop]

Hey guys, quick interrupt.

 

We now have this feature in CA, as announced by Chris:

So @Cornan - if you so choose, you can go back and edit your original post, if you wanted to maintain an index of findings, say. It's your call, of course, but it's a nice feature.

[Cornan]

29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Hey guys, quick interrupt.

 

We now have this feature in CA, as announced by Chris:

So @Cornan - if you so choose, you can go back and edit your original post, if you wanted to maintain an index of findings, say. It's your call, of course, but it's a nice feature.

 

Thanks, that's a great add-on! There have been many times that I wanted to explain the purpose of this thread a little further. I will check it out! Thanks for pointing this out to Chris! ?

[Cornan]

I just finished of my Canare Y-split from hell! ?

 

 

It ain't pretty, but I have tested it working with my multimeter. Later tonight I am going to try it with my Gophert floating PSU powering both USB Regen Amber and Brooklyn DAC USB injection simultaneously with 5v/5,1A max! ?

[Cornan]

Here is how it looks installed! ?

 

 

Here is the Aries Mini powered by the other Gophert.

 

 

I tested it without sound and everything works like a charm. Brooklyn's handshake is working flawlessly. I am happy! ?

[Cornan]

I just forced myself to stop listening to Tidal MQA. The Y-split made a great improvement. Without my Fostex I can only say that I did'nt know that my T50p was capable to sound this great. A really sweet sound, airy, detailed, dynamic and punchy. ?

[lmitche]

58 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I just forced myself to stop listening to Tidal MQA. The Y-split made a great improvement. Without my Fostex I can only say that I did'nt know that my T50p was capable to sound this great. A really sweet sound, airy, detailed, dynamic and punchy. ?

I hope you've ordered an ISO Regen.  You are going to be surprised!

[Middy]

+1 Definitely a good thing in small packages. ...

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I hope you've ordered an ISO Regen.  You are going to be surprised!

 

And the LPS-1.  I notice @Cornan has gone to incredible lengths in experimenting with floating supplies, and his results are fascinating. 

 

However, I do wonder how the combination of LPS-1 and ISO-R would transform his system!

[austinpop]

On 6/8/2017 at 9:44 PM, lmitche said:

I would try the isolation transformer on the DAC first.  Also, can you move the meanwells off the psaudio regenerator into a different socket, and put the windows machine on the psaudio? Anyway my two cents fwiw.

 

On 6/9/2017 at 0:28 AM, Cornan said:

@austinpop

I agree with @lmitche that you should continue to the DAC when you only hear subtile changes. You should really move it around everywhere. I would try it on your meanwell to Zyxel & SMS-200, tx-USBUltra & amp (all separate) as well just to rule out all possibilities.

Remember that a floating IT do not only protect you from the outside world. It also closes any ground loops or leakage loops within the system.

 

Guys,

 

I've done some more experiments with my IT (B&K 1604a) in my system along the lines you suggested.

 

 

I plugged the IT into my PS Audio P5, and then tried it with the following configs:

• plug the DAC into the IT
• plug the amp into the IT
• plug a strip with all the Meanwell's into the IT.

Only the last one seems to have finally made a very small improvement. So this is where I am going to keep the IT for now.

 

At times like these, I realize what a huge contribution my P5 is making to the overall quality of my system. I think the combination of the P5, along with my chain of LPS-1 supplies is giving me the benefit already, so the IT doesn't add much more.

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

And the LPS-1.  I notice @Cornan has gone to incredible lengths in experimenting with floating supplies, and his results are fascinating. 

 

However, I do wonder how the combination of LPS-1 and ISO-R would transform his system!

Rajiv, yes of course an lps-1 would serve Cornan beautifully.  

 

FWIW, I use a y-cable here both to power the iso regen and to inject power into the vbus leg of the split USB cable.  The Brooklyn truly benefits from the power injection as does my current black ifi microidsd dac.  

 

FYI - just for grins, I've ordered a ghent audio y-cable to replace my cheap Amazon model.

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

I hope you've ordered an ISO Regen.  You are going to be surprised!

 

Actually not! I have one a long way with passive GI and are not at all sure that I want to add a piece of active GI in my chain. Atleast I am not n a hurry to change that stubborn idea. If there were a Regen with improved clock only I would grab it before you could say galvanic isolation! ?

BTW. All my listening yesterday was with a complete GND lift in the USB cables. Brooklyn respond great to it! ?

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

And the LPS-1.  I notice @Cornan has gone to incredible lengths in experimenting with floating supplies, and his results are fascinating. 

 

However, I do wonder how the combination of LPS-1 and ISO-R would transform his system!

 

As you can see with your own tests a LPS-1 needs a floating IT so they do not transfer the noise to other parts of the system (backward noises). My Gopherts are already floating and could be used as a feeder supply for the LPS-1. However, due to the limited voltage range I would only use it for a Regen, since it is not suitable for Aries Mini or Brooklyn. Not sure for how long I will keep my Regen Amber, so I would'nt buy a LPS-1 until I have found another option. 

[austinpop]

26 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Actually not! I have one a long way with passive GI and are not at all sure that I want to add a piece of active GI in my chain. Atleast I am not n a hurry to change that stubborn idea. If there were a Regen with improved clock only I would grab it before you could say galvanic isolation! ?

BTW. All my listening yesterday was with a complete GND lift in the USB cables. Brooklyn respond great to it! ?

 

Hi Micael,

 

Since this is a thread about tweaks, I won't belabor this point. But I do want to make this observation. Many of us have enjoyed SQ gains by paying attention to the following areas:

1. galvanic isolation, i.e. the elimination of leakage loops
2. signal integrity
3. extremely low output impedance of power supply

It seems to me that you have made heroic progress along dimension #1 above. Your findings with ground lift, unshielded cables, isolators, etc have been inspiring. But I do urge you to consider the SQ gains that @mozes, @lmitche, I, and others have realized by also paying attention to #2 and #3.

 

Regarding #2 - signal integrity: I have personally experienced the benefit of the SOtM Ultra stack, @lmitche has experienced the ISO-R, and @mozes has adopted both the tX-USBultra and the ISO-R. Now, granted, you may not gain much from the GI of ISO-R, but SI is an area where we have found it astounding how much superior clocks can impact SQ.

 

Finally regarding #3. While floating supplies can get you isolation from the mains, the key to SQ improvements from a PSU also come from the low output impedance and low ripple, and the sonic improvements from supplies like the LPS-1, the VR Mini etc are also startling.

 

So I do urge you to explore these other two dimensions, since you may hit the wall on the isolation dimension, but there are further SQ gains to be had along the other 2 dimensions.

[Middy]

Iam not talking about my iso stack yet until a few more batches go through for Alex.

I have the intona feeding the Iso lps1 and others. I was suprised with the Lps1 feeding the intona 5v.

The Iso is another level of clean..

You can experiment though on a 30 day trial. 

Save for it after..

Not forcing you my friend but the the GI seems  to be the lesser and signal integrity aspect what makes it shine...

+1 from me also ...... 

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

Since this is a thread about tweaks, I won't belabor this point. But I do want to make this observation. Many of us have enjoyed SQ gains by paying attention to the following areas:

1. galvanic isolation, i.e. the elimination of leakage loops
2. signal integrity
3. extremely low output impedance of power supply

 

IMO #1 & #2 are the same!  They are both dealing with SI. As I wrote in my post I am interested in a USB Regen with improved clock. I have even sent a pm to Alex C that I was interested in a ISORegen. No respons though, which I interpret as a no! 

I am using a USB Regen and do quite a lot in the SI area. When it comes to extremely low output impedance I am aware that I am not going all in for the moment. I just do no think that it will gain as much as other things in price vs performance. I do think that the Gopherts <30mV ripple (peak-to-peak)/<3mV (rms) is low enough for my needs. Atleast  it sounds very very good with with Tidal MQA as source! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, Middy said:

Iam not talking about my iso stack yet until a few more batches go through for Alex.

I have the intona feeding the Iso lps1 and others. I was suprised with the Lps1 feeding the intona 5v.

The Iso is another level of clean..

You can experiment though on a 30 day trial. 

Save for it after..

Not forcing you my friend but the the GI seems  to be the lesser and signal integrity aspect what makes it shine...

+1 from me also ...... 

 

Thanks Middy!

 

I might end up with a ISORegen (or ISORegen) in the end, but I am in no hurry. I can wait until I can get my hands on one right away!

 

 

[mozes]

9 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Micael,

 

Since this is a thread about tweaks, I won't belabor this point. But I do want to make this observation. Many of us have enjoyed SQ gains by paying attention to the following areas:

1. galvanic isolation, i.e. the elimination of leakage loops
2. signal integrity
3. extremely low output impedance of power supply

It seems to me that you have made heroic progress along dimension #1 above. Your findings with ground lift, unshielded cables, isolators, etc have been inspiring. But I do urge you to consider the SQ gains that @mozes, @lmitche, I, and others have realized by also paying attention to #2 and #3.

 

Regarding #2 - signal integrity: I have personally experienced the benefit of the SOtM Ultra stack, @lmitche has experienced the ISO-R, and @mozes has adopted both the tX-USBultra and the ISO-R. Now, granted, you may not gain much from the GI of ISO-R, but SI is an area where we have found it astounding how much superior clocks can impact SQ.

 

Finally regarding #3. While floating supplies can get you isolation from the mains, the key to SQ improvements from a PSU also come from the low output impedance and low ripple, and the sonic improvements from supplies like the LPS-1, the VR Mini etc are also startling.

 

So I do urge you to explore these other two dimensions, since you may hit the wall on the isolation dimension, but there are further SQ gains to be had along the other 2 dimensions.

A great post Rajiv, it summarizes and structures our different approaches to SQ improvements. It also helps to build your future upgrade and tweaking strategy!

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

IMO #1 & #2 are the same!  They are both dealing with SI. As I wrote in my post I am interested in a USB Regen with improved clock. I have even sent a pm to Alex C that I was interested in a ISORegen. No respons though, which I interpret as a no! 

I am using a USB Regen and do quite a lot in the SI area. When it comes to extremely low output impedance I am aware that I am not going all in for the moment. I just do no think that it will gain as much as other things in price vs performance. I do think that the Gopherts <30mV ripple (peak-to-peak)/<3mV (rms) is low enough for my needs. Atleast  it sounds very very good with with Tidal MQA as source! 

 

Hi Micael,

 

Peace, brother! No pressure at all. Just wanted to give you some more ideas.

 

I'll just say a couple of things. First, the ISO-Regen is at heart a "USB Regen with improved clock." It also has a GI switch, so you can selectively turn GI on/off. In your setup, one would think off would be best, but I am never surprised if what works is the opposite of what one expects.

 

Secondly, regarding SI - I agree it is really important to clean up the ground plane - as you have. This allows the existing clocks to function at their best. But what we are seeing is that better clocks help - big time. This is hard to do with tweaking alone.