MQA is Vaporware

[The Computer Audiophile]

I still see it.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

As a follow up to my post earlier this week, I can now report back after my visit yesterday to the Bristol Sound and Vision show. 

 

Personally I was going because GIK were exhibiting for the first time, and I was interested in taking a look at some of their products and having a chat with them regarding some ideas and questions that I have.  This much worked out well, in fact I am very glad I made the effort to go.  Lets put it this way, I can look at GIK products on their website and pick the style and colour that I prefer, but when I see the actual products in the flesh, it is a different colour and style that really like.  The internet is great but it has its limitations, if I had selected products on line rather than seeing for real, I would not have made the best choices.

 

Anyway, back to MQA.  I drove to Bristol with a friend that was interested in going and listening to a couple of things that were on demo.  When driving, we came up with a plan and some rules for the show.  If we were ever in a room and an MQA logo was visible and a sales person was either on hand or actually pestering, the rule was that we had to ask the question "what is MQA".  This was just a bit of a lark, and we thought it might be fun to see what responses we got.  We made it all the way through the morning, past lunch, and to be honest had not seen an MQA logo, no posters displaying MQA capability or anything else.  So as a general impression, I think is quite possible that someone could visit the show not knowing MQA existed, and leaving still not knowing.  It was not being pushed by anyone.  I even wandered into the Pro-ject room, knowing that they had MQA DAC / streamers at the show.  What I had not fully realised is that they do not actually have MQA logos on them, so even looking at MQA capable devices you could miss MQA completely, you might just spot it if you read the little specification cards displayed next to some of the products, but nobody seemed to be making a big thing out of it.

 

Then we visited the Hegel room.  Hegel were actually doing a very interesting demo.  They had a relatively small room, with the Hegel H190, H390 and H590 and a pair of KEF LS50's, they were playing a couple of tracks then swapping the amps for comparison.  When I was there I heard the H590, then the H190, and for me it was very interesting to hear the difference between the two, even with the relatively modest, perhaps price inappropriate, KEF LS50's.  As a off topic subjective comment, I have to say that the H590 LS50 combo was actually amongst the very best sounding rooms in the show, quite impressive.

 

Back on topic, during the amp swap, it happened!  The Hegel rep was running through the streaming options offered by the H590, so the normal stuff "It'll do AirPlay, UPnP, Spotify Connect, all your streaming services, it even has full MQA decoding and rendering".  Bingo!  That was it, MQA is alive and well, it was mentioned by the Hegel rep!  Plus full credit to my companion for the day, straight in there with the key question, zero hesitation, "what is MQA"?  I thought the Hegel rep's answer was actually quite interesting, he said something along the lines of "it is for when you want to listen to high-res material from Tidal, they use MQA to reduce the file size for streaming, you need the MQA decoder to bring this back to high-res".  The point is, it was quite a dry and matter of fact response, no mention of deblurring, time domain accuracy or anything else, he just pitched it as something that might be useful to have if you want to stream Tidal.

 

So based on what I saw at Bristol, MQA is not entirely dead.  It does look a little sad though, like a withering plant that you don't think will survive the winter.  Oh, an Qobuz has a stand there, pushing their new reduced price hi-res streaming deal.

 

To put this in perspective, I noticed that on the Bristol Sound and Vision website, there are links to this year's show guide, and those from past years.  If you search the pdf's, there are no references to MQA in the 2020 or 2019 show guide.  The 2018 show guide has three MQA mentions, in iFi and Bluesound listings. The 2017 show guide has 10 mentions, from Tidal, Bluesound, Technics, Pioneer and Audioquest.  Then to 2016, just the one mention, for the Pioneer XDP-100R DAP.  The 2015 show guide is particularly interesting, there are three MQA mentions, but these all exist in press listings, for What Hifi and Hifi Critic.  Then back to 2014, no mentions, basically MQA does not exist yet.  So from 2015, you see it mentioned by the press, then listed for one manufacturer in 2016, by 2017 you hit the peak, then by 2018 there are signs of withering, and for 2019 / 2020 is has basically disappeared, or at least it has in terms of anything that manufacturers actually want in their show guide listing.

 

The show guides are here if you want to take a look for yourself, I quite enjoyed seeing how the listings have evolved over the last few years:

 

https://www.bristolshow.co.uk/showguide.lasso

 

As a complete off topic aside, the weather is appalling in the UK at the moment and the driving conditions were quite bad at times when heading to Bristol on the M4.  Nevertheless, I was surprised at just how quickly we got there.  Not so on the way home, multiple accidents on the motorway, one was quite spectacular with overturned vehicles etc.  We made it back safe and sound though (eventually).  I am having a quiet day at home today! 

Great post. Thank you. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Here is a link to the MQA CDs that Universal Music Japan is selling in their online store:

 

https://store.universal-music.co.jp/GoodsSearchList.jsp?keyword=mqa&sort_order=RaF-desc&perpage=72

 

It shows both what's currently available and pipeline for upcoming releases.

 

 

If someone will buy it, someone will sell it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Another poor choice with false advertising. MQA CD - https://lalalandrecords.com/swarm-the-limited-edition-2-cd-set/

Ha!

 

Quote

This release is MQA encoded. Listeners with an MQA decoder can enjoy this album in high resolution, up to 176.4 kHz/24-bit, from these Compact Discs.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, NoisyNarrowBandDevice said:

Just when you thought MQA is dead and buried it rears it's head. To wit in this otherwise very informative Gearslutz thread on 44.1 vs 88.2khz sampling rates:

 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/992969-88-2-96khz-vs-44-1-48khz-thread-end-them-all-51.html

 

Have a look & enjoy

Wow. 

 

Fortunately, one guy on the GS forum doesn't equal a movement. He is as misinformed as the rest of the MQA fans. I love where he said @Archimago's "editorial" was flawed but offered no evidence of how so. 

 

Oh well, let him have his day and continue to love MQA while it rides off into the sunset. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

More nonsense, this time from TAS.

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-dac/

 

 

"Here, a word about the Cobalt’s maximum sample rate is in order. Although the Cobalt features an upgraded USB receiver chip, its maximum PCM sample rate remains 96/24. So if you’re streaming from Qobuz, that’s the top resolution you’ll get. However, the Cobalt also supports MQA. (The original Red and Black didn’t, but thanks to a firmware upgrade they, too, now support MQA.) This means that the Cobalt can play higher-res files that have been folded into losslessly compressed versions via the MQA process. When streaming these files via Tidal, Cobalt, along with the Tidal software, will unfold them to their original higher resolution. Through this process, the Cobalt ’Fly can support files of up to 192/24 resolution."

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Andy, if they were doing just fine the following would have been addressed. The website would be updated so the store button would say where to buy since they haven't had a store since 2018. 2L used to be a site for people who liked Norwegian music to go. Without the store it is work to find this music and this customer base should have cared for better. That 2L hasn't done these two things causes me to wonder about other things like finances. 

 

The New York Times is doing just fine if you think a decline in revenue from 2005 to 2019 of over 40% is good. I don't. They are still struggling with their digital revenue model. 

Not everything is a nail to your hammer. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

29 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The following people can be considered nails:

Robert Harley

Alan Taffel

Jim Austin

Alex Crespi

That’s disgusting. Get over yourself. 
 

Nobody has made more claims than you, but never backed up a single one. 
 

I also find your convenient calling of Charles Hanson a good friend, only after his death, despicable. 
 

Your falsehoods and empty promises are too big to recount. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

Slightly off the MQA topic I know, but perhaps relevant to the greater "hi-res" market situation.  Does anyone know what is behind this?

 

Maybe nothing more than an efficiency related consolidation to HDtracks.com?

 

https://www.hiresaudio.online/hdtracks-co-uk-to-close-on-31st-march/

My guess is that the hassle of licensing and running a site for such a small market just isn’t worth it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

MQA is actively recruiting on Facebook these days.  Saw this on the TIDAL High Fidelity Music Streaming group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/tidalmusic/permalink/887531075030390/

 

Wow. Really trying to jam it down people's throats in a desperate way. Usually technologies that are good or needed don't require this kind of forcefulness. 

 

I remember when TV went from SD to HD. I don't recall anyone needing to proselytize how much everyone needed it at the time. One look and everyone was sold. MQA? One listen and one look at the company's actions and everyone is un-sold. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, lucretius said:

If MQA were the next best thing (since sliced bread)

As they say, if my aunt was a man he’d be my uncle. That’s a big if that’s just not the case. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

38 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Just IMO -- NOT intending on shilling my project, but if the distributors -- esp HDtracks -- would actually provide much higher quality than otherwise available, not just more bits, then they might really expand their market and create loyalty.   As it is, a slightly (very slightly) clearer version of a 'CD with more bits', with some of the noise/splats/errant signals above 20kHz -- should be filtered out anyway, is not a compelling purchase.

If there is something that actually makes a product SUPERIOR and not just better in a very 'esoteric' way, then they just might make a real place for themselves in the market.

 

John

 

Download stores are at the mercy of the rights holders. For example, if a download store worked with a label to allow the store to pay for an album to be remastered, the store would only have an exclusive on that remaster it paid for and went through all the hassle to do, for a very short period of time. After this, the new remaster must be provided to all the competitors. 
 

It’s no wonder that download stores are hesitant. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Keep it here is is on topic.

No. Nothing to do with MQA.

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

 

I would be very interested in learning more about what you mean by this.  Perhaps on a different thread.

 

 

.

Agree and I'm also interested. Another thread please. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

33 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Automated processing is the reason I was against MQA in the first place. It can't be done in the current environment. 

Don't rewrite history Steve. You have many years of documented history against MQA that has nothing to do with automated processing.

 

As you were. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

It was the first thing I talked about with MQA representatives at T.H.E. Show in Irvine California 20016. We didn't meet until RMAF 2016.  If you look back at the tape I said I had two winning hands. This was one of the cards. 

I hate to say it but you’re a legend in your own mind. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, FredericV said:

Is the Tidal group managed by MQA influencers? I did launch a membrship request, and now it seems I'm banned from this group:



 

Of course they talk, even if moderated by different people. They have a shared interest in hiding the truth.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, FredericV said:

At least we see a reposted @Archimago article in the Tidal group, and then the usual response from you know who, the same hand fed canned article which was already debunked.




 

 

He made a hobby out of understanding the technology! 
 

I don’t understand people and their motivations. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

Impressive!

 

 

No not at all, but evidently he feels there are plenty of Facebook "followers" who can be persuaded otherwise. He's a veritable Facebook superstar in his own mind, a real "influencer".

The part that baffles me, is what’s in it for him and the other MQA “influencers?”

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I think it makes them feel like they are "part of the industry" in some way. 

Wow, if that’s a feeling people want, and they’re willing to support a fraud to get it, I feel sad for them. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, UkPhil said:

MQA latest news 

https://www.musicweek.com/digital/read/mqa-s-bob-stuart-and-mike-jbara-on-their-mission-to-deliver-master-quality-audio-to-fans/079435

 

Nothing like using a global health crisis to attempt to boost one’s brand with an infomercial.
 

I read the first few fake questions and almost puked. 
 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Not all the manufacturers fell for the scheme.  There were manufacturers with integrity who saw the scheme for what it was and refused to lower their standards.

Some manufacturers run fragile businesses and made the choice to include MQA believing it would help them sell more units. Nothing to do with falling for a scheme or integrity in the way you see it. Some would rather implement MQA and continue to provide paychecks for employees than make a stand from the parking lot of their closed facility. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

which then leads to more questions...

 

Why are these manufacturers running "fragile" businesses....and whose problem is that? Not ours. sorry.

 

And what could make them think that the MQA blue light would sell more boxes? The press hype? Tidal?

 

Your concern and idealism is touching, but the manufacturers need to make products that people want to buy

and use their ingenuity, not rely on voodoo and snake oil. 

Have you ever run a business? 

 

Not all businesses succeed wildly at all times. Sales ebb and flow. Remember when Apple was nearly out of business? 

 

Your hatred for MQA has blinded you to the reality of the real world. So much so, that you use phrases like, "whose problem is that? Not ours. sorry" when they make zero sense in the context. Get over it. Nobody is talking about problems and who owns them. I told you why some manufacturers elected to implement MQA. Your blindness to how real businesses function is amazing. 

 

Again, your question, "And what could make them think that the MQA blue light would sell more boxes? The press hype? Tidal?" is more of your ridiculousness. It doesn't matter what, I was talking about why. Get over it. I dislike MQA strongly, but I still use common sense. 

 

What concern and idealism? if you can't have a conversation like a normal human being, it's time to take a hike. 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Additionally, the music business still has not figured out that nobody wants to pay $10-12 for a Redbook quality download....and they cry and complain about the industry going down the tubes....I promise you if they priced Redbook and 24 bit downloads fairly they would have fared better. Lossless Streaming came on big because when people loaded up 6 or 7 Hirez downloads in their cart from HDTracks and others, the total was near $100.....not sustainable. 

I'm sure the "music business" has nobody as smart as you to figure this stuff out. If there is money to be made, large public companies usually leave it on the table. Yeah, that's how it works. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Chris your responses are pure idealistic blather. Step off your high horse and see the real world.

 

Is it my problem the pizza joint down the street got shut down by the health inspector because they failed to clean their kitchen?Nope. Is it my problem that the small bank 3 blocks over went under because they made unwise and speculative investments? Nope.  Nothing you said is backed up by the real world.

 

And major corporations leaving money on the table? Ever hear of corporate stupidity, greed, and self dealing? you DO remember GM was just about sunk right? Apple almost went under because of disastrous decisions by Steve Jobs. And then they hired stuffed shirts who made it worse. The difference is, unlike "fragile" hifi manufacturers, it was easy for them to find investors like Microsoft, and to use the capital markets. 

 

Stop trying to make a grand point on high moral ground please. 

I remember my first adult beverage well. I used the same logic you're using after a few of them. 

 

I won't waste my time talking to you, as we clearly have no common understanding of how business operate and you are unwilling to admit that businesses make decisions that will keep the lights on. 

 

If you are so against MQA, I highly recommend talking like a civil human being. It will further your cause. As it stands now, your language only turns people off and hurts your cause. 

 

I dislike MQA very much, but that dislike doesn't make me be an asshole to others.