A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[cool_chris]

Here is something that adds a massive improvement to the SQ

Again many thanks to Nenon who discovered Buffalo and continued with modding and searching for the best only as well as the others like Austinpop and many more for confirming this is the way to go.
Rajiv was also so kind to share his excellent experience with Buffalo he got from Nenon! 
There is no way back to older switch.

By having 4 in total Buffalows I have a comfort of expermenting much more.

 

[cool_chris]

14 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

I am thinking to establish a “WiFI bridge” to mimic the bridge concept described in this thread.  I almost 100% sure people here already successfully implemented it but searched around I failed to identify anything similar.  

 

In a typical bridge, hardware wise, Ethernet connections are established between a router and a computer (Mac Mini), and between the computer and a streamer (SOtM’s sMS 200).  Software wise, virtual link is established by combining two physical connections listed above as a bridge.  Now, I would like to replace the second connection listed above, namely the Ethernet connection between Mac Mini and sMS 200, with a WiFI connection by taking the advantage of sMS 200’s WiFI capability.  I have successfully established the WiFI connection between the router and sMS 200, indicating hardware-wise, sMS 200 is capable taking wireless signal.  Next I tried to use the sharing function in Mac Mini to turn it into a WiFI hotspot by sharing “Ethernet” using “WiFI Ports” with other computers such as sMS 200.  However, when I went to sMS 200’s  web-based interphase to establish the WiFI connection with the “Hotspot” from Mac Mini, the hotspot was visible but sMS 200 failed to connect to it.  

 

Wonder if anyone can share their experience how to do it or the expert’s opinion if it even can be done.

 

Thank you very much!

 

I have a different dream .

Get all wifi off !

Wifi is causing unfortunately so much destruction to the SQ that I can't think of using it.

I am using a separate access point with lowerst wifi power and isolate it with short fibre as well as 2 ethernet isolators .

All 3 isolators on the single ethernet to access point. It all brings nice effects.

I wish I could turn it off completely but not sure how to setup the server control / remote in different way.

 

[cool_chris]

I dreamed about Buffalows untill I got them.

Now I am dreaming with them about kicking off wifi .

 

Wifi makes 3D musick much more flat, uncomfortable and also harsh sometimes. 

 

[cool_chris]

2 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

@cool_chris, others: any experience with the PFBuffalo and Cisco 2960s before you went full-buff? Soon I will be integrating a PFB into a duo-chained 2960 config. 

I never tried Cisco personally.

From what I learned on different forums 

Cisco was the first very good switch and many have use it .

Buffalo 2016 was much better in many opinions due to the main chip that is excellent in Buffalo , but I think if you are going to create PFU-Cisco then this should land very close to the PFU-Buffalo as the clock os the most important .

 

Again I want to point that 

One PFU-Buffalo was better than Four stacked regular 2016 Buffalows powered by LPS in Nenon opinion. I agree with his findings.

It is that good.

So you can imagine the difference delta created by this excellent clock.

 

Just contact Jord, install Pink Faun Ultra to your gear and report what you hear.

Be ready to be shocked by the difference. 

I was both shocked anf amaized by this sound. 

 

I already planned to install PFU clocks everywhere,  but have not collected cash to get 4 more clocks installed in 2 other Buffalows , in modem and in router. 

I think this will be the chain that will surpass the Optane stored files with SQ in regards to the streaming via this switches and moded modrm + router.

I am very close to that.

 

[cool_chris]

3 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Chris,

I don’t (yet) have experience with PF Clocks or Buffalo switches....that joy and surprise is still to come (what do you mean confirmation bias😇)

While I have no doubt that the quality of the clock plays a very significant role, I just wanted to give feedback that I have achieved some major, indeed jaw dropping improvements in sound quality by improving the power supplies to my network. 

 

I can imagine that adding really good clocks to modem and router will bring significant SQ gains, but I can state categorically that LPS upgrades also bring very significant gains. I have experience upgrading Sean Jacob’s DC2 to DC3 on an AQVox SE switch then adding DC3s and Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cables to all other network components for some of the most cost effective and profound upgrades I’ve ever made in a 45year hi-fi ‘history’. There’s no doubt that Nenon’s PF Buffalo is an outstanding piece of kit but I also have no doubt that realising its full potential needs an LPS in the DC4 class. 

In the next few days I’ll be installing upgraded DC3s to my network (Statement class transformers, Mundorf Silver/Gold cabling and DC4 regulators, footers and casework damping). Once all that’s done and fully run in, I’ll be adding one of Nenon’s PFBuffalo switches powered with a dual rail DC4. 

Anyone looking at my system would think it insane that I spent many times the cost of a modem and router on the DC cable and LPS to power them, but the results those improvements have brought have delivered SQ WAY BEYOND what I ever dreamed possible from digital files. 3 dimensional, fully immersive sound that makes the listening room utterly disappear, replaced by solid, highly focused images of the recording venue and the musicians within, with SOTA PRaT and total/complete/effortless listener involvement, with absolutely nothing to dislike. The only reason I’m still adding LPS upgrades, clocks and switches is that I’m fascinated by just how good this can all get.

 

 

I have all powered by LPSes.

Vinnie Rossi mini supercapacitor power supply based on Belleson SPX78 .

And few Uptone supercapacitor 1.1 and 1.2.

I agree 100% with you. 

If I have to make decission of picking good grear or good power supply 

I would always pick good power supply AND GROUNDING. ( many forget about that)

 

But top power supply can really shine only with a good grear.

I was adding the Buffalows with the same power supplys. 

Also here you use 2 LPSes for Each PFU Buffalo. Clock gets separate DC power.

I am investing Shean Jacobs DC3 and DC4 and might want to go for DC4 multirail.

Unfortunate this is going to be a gigantic financial effort if I want to supply all by DC4.

Not sure how big is difference with DC3 v DC4. I know all supply details but not the expected SQ delta difference 

 

 

[cool_chris]

2 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hiya, 

I have an Innuos Statement which is what got me started with Sean in the first place. When I implemented the first DC2 with the AQVox SE I was using a Zenith SE, which I loved, so was only half expecting an improvement but what I got was shocking. Spades more of the Innuos goodness of purity, clarity, PRaT and massive listener involvement and emotion. The upgrade to DC3 brought a similar, but even greater improvement. Rather than highlighting any particular hi-fi aspect, the music just got a whole lot more rhythmic drive and musician interplay such that it grabs the listener’s attention and simply doesn’t let go, never allowing the mind to wander, its that compelling.  

The sound I’m getting today with the Satement and the system fully DC3 and Innuos powered with Nenon’s Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cables and a full Synergistic Research AStmosphere X Ref loom is startling immersing and holographic, with each musician fully developed in 3 dimensional space. The recording venue soundstage completely replaces any room sounds, which can be quite disorientating when listening with the eyes open. Some modern electronic recordings feel like they can literally change your level of conciousness....very psychadelic.  

The problem with this whole set-up is that new elements like LPSs and DC cables take hundreds of hours to run in and the ‘magic’ really goes ‘awol’ during the process, so if you do a lot of upgrading you spend a lot of time with the system at sub optimal. My system btw is based on ethernet cables with router to switch isolation handled by a highly optimised, dedicated 5GHz 500Mbps wi-fi band. I am going to try installing an optimised FO link but I won’t be de-commissioning the wi-fi until the FO proves itself to be better.  In its present state the Statement sees a millisecondS long burst of wi-fi transmission before shutting down the network to play tracks from Qobuz,  and there’s no other network traffic arriving at the server, so I dont really notice any difference between Qobuz and internally stored files. The big difference is really between the tracks themselves.

 

Yes its very handy living within easy reach os Sean’s workshop. Its also an entertaining drive along the local Dales roads 

 

I exchanged 5ghz Wifi to Fibreglass. 

There is no question that was one of the best decisions I made.

It affects both

Stored files and streaming.

Get hhf FO cable from youf Internet provider and start new chapter.

( remember to have it playing for w week once installed before serious sessions).

It needs burn in more than anything else. 

 

[cool_chris]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:27 PM, Nenon said:

 

It works really well, and I am trying to convince Sean to offer that. You can however request it like @Blackmorec did. 

I have done a lot of comparisons in my system, and every inch (or should I say every mm) of DC wire in my system is using the Mundorf silver/gold wire - the 15.5 AWG version where possible, and the 18 AWG at a couple places where I could not fit the thicker version. I have easily spent over $3K on this wire in my system. And it's totally worth it. 

@Blackmorec asked me if too much of this wire could become a problem and if he should get his LPS with the standard wire. My answer was to go with the Mundorf - it won't be too much. The more of the DC wire I have replaced, the better it got. The cool thing about the Mundorf silver/gold is that it does not have the lean/analytical/bright sound associated with silver wire. It's nothing like that in my opinion. This is of course my personal opinion. But I have also heard from tens of people who have built DC cables, and the feedback has been nothing but excellent. I haven't tried the wire in any other applications as I don't think it's a magic wand that improves everything. I may try multiple runs of it in a power cable one day (with some vibration damping and Bocchino or Furutech NCF connectors). 

 

One thing to make clear, though. As always, with cables, your system needs to be at a certain level to be able to hear those differences. And the better your system is, the more magnified the effects are. But they would not perform miracles on a system that is not transparent enough.

 

I would love to hear a Taiko Extreme server internally wired with the Mundorf silver/gold wire! :)

Hi Nenon

I asked Emile about that.

He is sure he has something better for DC wireing in Extreme than Mundorf SG wire.

I have no idea what that might be as I have used Mundorf 1,5 mm SG wire everywhere with fantastic results as you know .

I think it not a better wire he is using, but better in that application. 

Remember there are few hyper expensive Delund capacitors and Mundorf capacitors in the gigantic power section of the Extreme already so you might want to balance it a little for more transparent effects. 

 

[cool_chris]

Thanks Nenon for sharing that . 

I had no time to report it.

I recommend all of you to try to change voltage on your Buffalo switches 5 v -12v will work . It is amazing how much the sound is changing between 5v to 12v. In my case 10v - 11 v for Buffalo works best. 12v is to harsh. 5v is great but lacks dynamics and bass section is to loose to me, but some of you would love it . Find you own reference. 

 

But the biggest changes are in EdgerouterX. It acts as the only Router  in my network that is dedicated to audio only.

 This transformation is very big in my case.

Yes I tested many voltages and 10v as Nenon kindly reported is a great mixture of all. 

Just experiment yourself with that. It's FREE as long as you have regulated voltage power supply exit. 

I have a fixed 12v Vinnie Rossi supercapacitor supply , but something like MPaudio SLS that follows VR supply  with double voltage regulation (double LT 3045 regulation and filtering)   works excellent in my case .

 

[cool_chris]

11 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

Thank you for this observation. I just adjusted the voltage in the Buffalo switches to 10v and concur with your findings, a smoother more natural presentation with no lacking in the dynamics. Also, I observed an improvement in imaging with slightly better depth and separation.

Glad you like it  👍 

I benefited so much from this fantastic forum and from Nenon experience.

I wanted to make sure I test and experiment as much as I can so others can also benefit form my experience. 

 

There are many tests I already planned to do. Will share all that. 

[cool_chris]

41 minutes ago, internethandle said:

Just changed my Buffalo BS-GS2048 to 10V from 12V on my LPS and also am enjoying it so far -- more relaxed/smoother, as Nsxturbo mentioned, with yes, better imaging and what possibly is a slightly lower apparent noise floor from 12V. Worth a try if changing voltage is not too much of a pain/possible for the LPS used (mine has an accessible trim pot simply by opening the chassis).

 

Great !

I hope others will also confirm my findings.

If some of you have fixed 12 voltage you can always add an MPaudio DC module with LT3045 that will lower the DC voltage to any number from 12 v down to 3v if needed.

 

[cool_chris]

3 hours ago, elan120 said:

Thanks for the tip, I also like the 10V input better.  More enjoyable playback with no lost of dynamic, but gaining more separation, imaging, and micro details.

It looks it is a very good catch 👌 

Glad you like it !

Hope I can experiment little more and find few more of things that will work for me and than for ALL of You .

 

[cool_chris]

9 hours ago, genvirt said:

I’m thinking about “simple” switch (5-8) with best possible SQ and powered by 5v...

You can get EdgerouterX

Than during the router setup you can TURN OFF THE DHCP routing function.

With that it will act as a switch.

A very very good switch. 

The additional benefit is that it will work with less than 1% switch CPU use so very beneficial for the SQ.

I tried it and it is an excellent option.

The sticker voltage is 12v but it will work with lower voltages even better. 

 

[cool_chris]

45 minutes ago, genjamon said:

For those who have been playing with the Buffalo switches, has anyone compared a set of two Buffalos vs just one Buffalo daisy chained via fiber with an EtherRegen?  I have a BS-GS2008 that sounds really good replacing a low cost (John Swenson recommended) Cisco switch (properly grounded to shunt high impedance noise) in between modem/router and endpoint, and I'm thinking of taking the plunge to a double-switch solution.  I'm just trying to decide between the two sets of options above. 

 

I would have one of the switches powered by an LPS 1.2, and the other powered by a Vinnie Rossi ultracap supply.  Modem/router would be powered by an HDPlex LPS with a MP Audio MD-HPULN PS to lower its noise.  And this may become a Ubiquiti router and wifi access point setup once I have the switches and power supplies all dialed in.

 

Also, I have seen the comments about the benefits of powering the Buffalos at 10V rather than 12V.  Has anyone compared 9V to 10V?  The LPS 1.2's are capable of 9V or 12V, but not 10V.  Just curious if the 9V would be as good as 10V or if 10V is the best of all.  I have not yet tried 9V from the LPS 1.2 powering my Buffalo 2008, so I should probably do that.

 

Right now, the UltraRendu and single Buffalo are both powered by LPS 1.2 and my stock modem/router is powered by the Vinnie Rossi, so my network is 100% powered by isolated ultracap supplies already.

 

Any comments/suggestions are welcome.

Yes test it in your system. 

9v is very close to the 10v in SQ

You can also try 7v and 5v .

If you need to try 10v I recommend

To add MP Audio PS After 12v to lower the voltage .

Additionally you will get much more stabile and  better current with the LT3045 used in MPAUDIO. 

 

2008 was not as good as the 2016 Buffalo in some tests, but still is a great value switch. 

 

If you want to stack it (2 or more switches) I used many different options and optical between the swiches always wins.

Just make sure to use Finisar SFPs Single mode 1310 nm  with LC connection recommended here.

 

But direct to server from last switch you might use both alternatively (copper and optical ).

That depends on the quality of the nic cards in your server.

 

[cool_chris]

FTLF1324P2BTL-MC SFP Module

This is the one most of us have used.

it is fantastic in all aspects but lacks focuse a little. 

Unfortunately it is not available anymore. 

There are some used on ebay. 10 - 20 Euro each. Very cheap.

 

But there are very good alternatives that can be exactly in your preference.

One example is listed by auricgoldfinger.

The one I prefer very strongly will copy and paste picture here.

[cool_chris]

This is my nunber 1 after trying many finisars , planet tech and Startech SFPs

 

[cool_chris]

7 hours ago, adamaley said:

Can you describe what you like about the one in the image you've posted vs. all the others? I found FTLF1324P2BTL-MC SFP Module to be too bright in my system and switched to Planet Techs.

So 1321 on the pucture is much closer to planetech, but not as mechanical sounding.

Also this one has very good focuse and authority. Not as good as Startech but I think it is a great balance of all 3 in 1 SFP.

 

So what you get in 1321 is about  80% of detail focuse and authotity that Startech has.

90% of what Planetech offers being very well balanced in SQ.

80% of space and delicacy that is in 1324 without being harsh.

 

And it is do cheap that it is no brainer to get. I paid 20 Euro for 1321 SfP so 40 in total for a pair. 

 

I have collected few dozens of SFPs to find the one for me .

 

Choice of SFP is one of the biggest SQ changer you can have. 

It has much bigger effect than most of things we do.

 

 

[cool_chris]

50 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Just ordered a pair off of ebay close to me for $13 ea. But I noticed after paying they don't have the HW suffix. Any idea what HW designates? I currently have a pair of 1324's in my opticalModule/Rendu. 

I don't know 

But please check the

1. Wave frequency 1310 - same in yours

2. Distance 2 km - same in yours

3. 2,488 Gbps v 2,67 Gbps in yours

They might be different in this aspects only and power consumption .

 

So the only difference is the speed that is higher between the SFPs and might be little more power consumption. 

 

 

[cool_chris]

4 hours ago, soares said:

Would be grateful for some advice. 
My current configuration:
Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <RJ45> oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR <USB> DAC

The sound is absolutely fantastic, using 2x Farad, 2x LPS 1.2 and 2x sBoosters + ultra.

However we all want to improve what we’re getting, so I am considering to sell my uR and get an oR. Should I expect a significant SQ upgrade?

Thank you for your views.

Best, 

Jorge

The biggest improvement you can expect is after upgrading the clock in your Buffalo.

This will elevate your experience few levels.

If you do that you can easy sell your EtherRegen and most importantly you Have to use Buffalo as the LAST swich before the server.

Contact Jord from Pink Faun. His Ultra clock is amazing. He can do it all for you or you can just buy his Ultra clock and do it yourself if you are experienced in DIY.

Many of us upgrated few switches with that clock with amazibg results of stacking them in series.

It is totally different level of SQ with improvement everywhere.  Absolutely all aspects of the SQ will improve. 

 

[cool_chris]

59 minutes ago, flkin said:

Start playback then disconnect your lan cable and play using only the buffer in the streamer. That is the best the network will ever sound - no network. 
 

It’s easy to forget that there’s a limit to network improvements and the best setup will only approach the sound of fully buffered data in RAM in the streamer. 
 

From my experience anyway..

I agree 100 % but as we all know now the noise gets "inprinted" in the data you are passing via switch .

Don't ask me why , I dont know. I wish we know all about it .

Good clock with great power device /SR7, DC4/Jcat Optimo will pass it to RAM undistructed or I should call it less distructed.

 

So in summary BOTH should be done.

 

Ps.

I wish I could avoid passing signal via 4 Buffalo 2016 switches.

Can't do it without significant degradation of SQ.

 

[cool_chris]

2 hours ago, soares said:

Thank you so much, Chris. That’s something I had thought before, but living in true US I can’t send back the Buffalo to Netherlands. And to be honest I don’t feel confident enough to do it myself. The maximum I was able to achieve was to mod the Buffalo in order to accept an external LPS. Any idea where I can have it modded in NY area? Best, Jorge

Sure 

Please contact direct user NENON. 

He is experienced DIY and if he has time he can try to help you to install PinkFaun clock in your Buffalo.

He is located in US not far from you.

 

[cool_chris]

All I know is that whoever went the Buffalo 2016 route and upgrated it with Nenon proposed Mundorf gold DC wires as well as the Pink Faun Ultra Clock was amazed with the result including fantastic review by Austinpop.

There is no return. Addictive sound. 

 

As Nenon already mentioned :

1 Pink Faun Ultra Buffalo 2016 was much better than 4 Buffalo 2016 stacked !

I was able to test this in my system and I had to agree. Now I have 4 Buffalows.

 

Timing is not everything in Audio but it is by far the best way of improving everything in Audio.

 

 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Well Barrows, at least with the uR and with my configuration I feel that the iR delivers more meat to the sound. So probably a Phoenix will also improve things and in a much larger scale.

It would be interesting to also know  if there is any difference (SQ wise) between an eR  + uR and eR + oR. That’s the one million dollar question. 😂

 

I am sure many of us would love to answer that question for much less than a one  million dollar so you can save.

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

Just installed the 1321's over the 1324's I had and I would say, without doing A/B the top end is less harsh. Playing violins now and sounds great. Perhaps a bit less detail but seemingly a bit more musical and less in your face. They'll stay in place. 

I am so glad you like my higest recommendation from my top selection of SFPs.

I still experiment with others but no one gets even close to 1321.

 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, adamaley said:

Thanks for the update. Kindly provide more impressions as you get a better handle on what's going on. 

I am many weeks with that SFP. Some already tried to follow my findings.

Glad they like it.

It offers excellent balance of all aspects and very low noise.

I think I should call it "universal" SFP with all important aspects like musicality , authority, detail and control 👌 

Again this SFP is All in One for me.

 

Also is very solid so it is not changing character with time once burned in , but I got used SFPs to avoid the burning process that might take several weeks.

 

[cool_chris]

2 hours ago, soares said:

Thanks for sharing. Do you’re saying that even with the PF mod, the eR and an extra Buffalo make a difference? 

Am I so stupid carring the 4 Buffalows if 1 PF Buffalo will do the job ? And keep ER as a isolator just for accesd point ?

No. I keep them all because it is much better. 

 

We don't know why but stacking multiple switches brings additional benefits. 

By far the biggest improvement is when you get your first PF Buffalo 2016.

Please keep it as the LAST in chain .

Make sure to power it well.

 

Adding switches in a chain brings additional benefits.  Those are not as big as the first switch but it is still improving the SQ.