I think I'm bored with audio now.

[Sal1950]

In my opinion civilised societies should ban all forms or recreation involving oil based fuel-powered vehicles (boats, planes cars, motorbikes).

It should be either wind, solar or electricity.

R

 

We could crawl back to the horse and buggy, but they leave behind a pollution all their own.

Just ridiculous!

Good thing no civilised societie argees

[semente]

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but out in this country, the rattlesnakes usually deserve to be shot, so guns are necessary. (That includes some two legged rattlesnakes I suppose, though shooting them is frowned upon...)

 

Also, you Europeans have no idea just how big the western states in the U.S. are. Eight or nine hundred miles by interstate with 295 horses or so is fundamentally different than the same distance in a Conestoga with only a few horsepower. (grin)

 

-Paul

What about speed limits?

[semente]

We could crawl back to the horse and buggy, but they leave behind a pollution all their own.

Just ridiculous!

Good thing no civilised societie argees

You missed the part about recreation although, yes, I think we should all use public transportation if/whenever possible.

 

My argument is that one should respect our fellow citizens, both those in the present and the generations to come.

 

R

[Paul R]

What about speed limits?

 

Target practice.

[semente]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30521[/ATTACH]

 

Target practice.

He, he... That was a good one.

 

Now I know what the guns are for.

[Brian A]

(grin) Showing my ignorance - that was a closed road, right? I'm not sure how one can get a public road closed like that, but wowza -- I would have been having a heart attack using the left lane like that if there was any chance at all of opposing traffic.

 

-Paul

Yes, closed. Its an organized annual event, complete with police controlling entrances, fire trucks, ambulances (and presumably hearses) on standby. The closed road is 5.2 miles. The course record was broken this year by a 950 hp Nissan GT-R. You need hp for a hill climb; my 33 year old car is relatively gutless.

[Old Listener]

Ok, I have been scratching my head about what could music, photography, dogs, cats, bicycles, motorcycles and fast/loud cars possibly have in common (other than being the most commonly mentioned hobbies on CA)???

 

So here is a theory: We all have heightened "sensitivities" to external stimuli, be those aural (music), visual (photography), sensory (pet fur - that one may be a stretch), and adrenaline driven (wind in your hair, riding on the edge, taking risk for the vehicular crowd). I wonder whether medical science would agree that such a heightened level of sense can actually exist?

 

Simple explanation: We have substantial amounts of discretionary income and our hobbies are our way of disposing of that income.

[sdolezalek]

Simple explanation: We have substantial amounts of discretionary income and our hobbies are our way of disposing of that income.

 

Yes, but there are lots of hobbies; many of which are even better at parting us and our incomes...It would seem that art and watch collecting, sailing, skiing, and horses are, by comparison, under-represented in this crowd.

[Priaptor]

Simple explanation: We have substantial amounts of discretionary income and our hobbies are our way of disposing of that income.

 

Very true.

 

One of my real passions is reading about early American history. Very cheap hobby UNTIL you let it take over your life like I did and follow the Lewis and Clark trail, wind up buying a second home as a result and start collecting first editions.

[gmgraves]

(grin) Showing my ignorance - that was a closed road, right? I'm not sure how one can get a public road closed like that, but wowza -- I would have been having a heart attack using the left lane like that if there was any chance at all of opposing traffic.

 

-Paul

 

Yeah, the state of Nevada closes that road every year for that event. Nevada is still a relatively "free" state compared with most of these United States. Comparing Nevada laws to California, for instance, is like the difference between North and South Korea! (well maybe it isn't THAT bad, but you get the idea).

[gmgraves]

What about speed limits?

There was a time, before the great "Energy Crisis" of the 1970's and the Federal Government implemented a "national speed limit" of 55 MPH (88.5 KMPH) when several of our western states (Nevada included) had NO speed limits. But when the "double nickel" was rescinded, most of those open speed limits didn't come back. I believe that Wyoming had no speed limits up until the late 1990s, but unfortunately, in this era of rampant greed on all fronts, no state can resist for long the lucrative revenue stream that is the speeding ticket. So on that front, parts of Europe are more "free" than we are here in the U.S. I really enjoy driving in Germany on stretches of Autobahn where there are NO speed limits and in Italy where even though speed limits exist, they aren't enforced (because getting the Italians to observe traffic rules is like herding cats!).

[gmgraves]

Yes, but there are lots of hobbies; many of which are even better at parting us and our incomes...It would seem that art and watch collecting, sailing, skiing, and horses are, by comparison, under-represented in this crowd.

 

I used to be part owner of a sail boat, but since it was kept in Southern California (Kings Harbor, Redondo Beach) and I lived in Northern Ca., it was a geographically disadvantageous relationship that kept me broke with air fare to and from LAX!

 

Horses are even more expensive than boat ownership, and airplane ownership is possibly the most expensive of all the "transportation" based hobbies with the possible exception of the collector car hobby where a pre-war Alfa Romeo, or a 1950's or 1960's Ferrari can set you back tens of millions of dollars (a 1962 Ferrari GTO sold at auction a couple of years ago for $40 million! I have no Idea what one would sell for today).

[gmgraves]

You missed the part about recreation although, yes, I think we should all use public transportation if/whenever possible.

 

My argument is that one should respect our fellow citizens, both those in the present and the generations to come.

 

R

 

Public transportation isn't as well developed here in the US as it is in, say, Japan or Europe. Most municipal bus or tram systems don't go everywhere within a town or city, don't run as often as needed to be effective, and are simply not effective means of transportation. For instance, back in the late 1980's, in Silicon Valley where I lived for many years, they built a "light rail" system. It went from Mountain View at the north end of the county to the south part of San Jose, the biggest city in the Valley. I could get in my car and drive from my home in Mountain View to downtown San Jose in less than 15 minutes (off rush hours). I tried the light rail one time when it first opened. It took me TWO HOURS to make the same trip!

 

No, public transport is not the answer for this country. They've been trying to get a TGV-like system built between LA and San Francisco for more than 30 years, but the cost thwarts the project every time. Our existing inter-city rail system, AMTrak is a disaster. Here in the US we ship most of our long distance goods via rail, rather than by motor truck as is done in Europe (we don't have anywhere near the truck traffic on our motorways as Europe does). As a result, freight trains have priority in scheduling over passenger trains (it wasn't always like that. We used to have marvelous, fast, passenger train service here, and the railroads used to compete with each other to provide, faster, more luxurious and comfortable train service at ever cheaper fares. That declined sharply after WWII) and passenger rail traffic is subject to delays, minimal service, token accommodations because of it. It also costs more to take the train between most places in this country than it does to fly!

[mansr]

Public transportation isn't as well developed here in the US as it is in, say, Japan or Europe. Most municipal bus or tram systems don't go everywhere within a town or city, don't run as often as needed to be effective, and are simply not effective means of transportation. For instance, back in the late 1980's, in Silicon Valley where I lived for many years, they built a "light rail" system. It went from Mountain View at the north end of the county to the south part of San Jose, the biggest city in the Valley. I could get in my car and drive from my home in Mountain View to downtown San Jose in less than 15 minutes (off rush hours). I tried the light rail one time when it first opened. It took me TWO HOURS to make the same trip!

 

It's still the same. Convenient for going a few stops, but only a fool would travel any distance on it.

[accwai]

In my opinion civilised societies should ban all forms or recreation involving oil based fuel-powered vehicles (boats, planes cars, motorbikes).

It should be either wind, solar or electricity.

 

R

 

P.S.: and guns too

 

Olympics regulation 10m air rifles are rather civilized actually:

 

 

[Paul R]

Yes, closed. Its an organized annual event, complete with police controlling entrances, fire trucks, ambulances (and presumably hearses) on standby. The closed road is 5.2 miles. The course record was broken this year by a 950 hp Nissan GT-R. You need hp for a hill climb; my 33 year old car is relatively gutless.

Impressive, and looks like fun! But for a *real* climb...

 

[video=youtube_share;N7pqLRpUB4U]

[semente]

No, public transport is not the answer for this country. They've been trying to get a TGV-like system built between LA and San Francisco for more than 30 years, but the cost thwarts the project every time. Our existing inter-city rail system, AMTrak is a disaster.

Perhaps you should look at the long term benefits and pour more money into the projects, which in turn would require more State and stronger politicians.

 

But that might ago against the holy Constitution?

 

R

[gmgraves]

Perhaps you should look at the long term benefits and pour more money into the projects, which in turn would require more State and stronger politicians.

 

I agree. But it's not my call. My fellow countrymen are too engrossed in electing idiots to public office and being the world's "policemen" (and making the American people pay for it) to do anything truly progressive with our infrastructure. OTOH, you'll never get Americans out of our cars. We love them too much. The best that can be hoped for is to get us into electric cars, and I suspect that will happen when they truly become practical and the infrastructure to support them is more fully deployed.

But that might ago against the holy Constitution?

 

R

 

You bet your life the Constitution is Holy!

[Audio_ELF]

You bet your life the Constitution is Holy!

You mean it's a bunch of hooey which idiots fight over and use as an excuse for treating each other badly? :-)

[Jud]

We're likely going to be living beyond our ability to drive ourselves around reasonably well. Even before then, I would welcome time to read, listen to music or speak on the phone with attention, etc., during routine drives. I would happily be in the market for a car with a self driving option.

[gmgraves]

You mean it's a bunch of hooey which idiots fight over and use as an excuse for treating each other badly? :-)

 

I'm sorry, Eloise, I don't take umbrage at MOST of the things that people say on this forum and while I might disagree with much that is written here, it almost never really gets my hackles up. But, as a serious Constitutionalist who believes that if the USA, as a nation, would strictly follow the Constitution as we're supposed to, this country would be in a lot better shape than it is now. And because of my staunch belief that this document is sacred, I take your comment as an extreme insult.

[gmgraves]

We're likely going to be living beyond our ability to drive ourselves around reasonably well. Even before then, I would welcome time to read, listen to music or speak on the phone with attention, etc., during routine drives. I would happily be in the market for a car with a self driving option.

 

If I understand what you're saying, I don't believe self driving cars will help the extremely elderly at all. It's not just the ability to operate the controls that eventually will stop all of us from driving ourselves, it's lapses in judgement, memory and general confusion that effects us all at some point.

[Jud]

If I understand what you're saying, I don't believe self driving cars will help the extremely elderly at all. It's not just the ability to operate the controls that eventually will stop all of us from driving ourselves, it's lapses in judgement, memory and general confusion that effects us all at some point.

 

Well, not quite all of us. I was with my dad the night before he passed away at 91, and he was speaking to my sister about which of his multiple internet bank accounts, whose passwords he had in his head (though luckily she'd had him send them to her), she'd paid his taxes out of. He read a couple of books a week on his Kindle right up to his death.

 

He had to stop driving when diabetes made him unable to feel the pedals sufficiently. He rode with my mother, who had dementia, doing the driving. Her feel for the pedals was fine, and he told her where to go, so together they made one fairly decent driver.

 

Even for those with mild dementia, self driving cars could have destinations pre-programmed.

[gmgraves]

Well, not quite all of us. I was with my dad the night before he passed away at 91, and he was speaking to my sister about which of his multiple internet bank accounts, whose passwords he had in his head (though luckily she'd had him send them to her), she'd paid his taxes out of. He read a couple of books a week on his Kindle right up to his death.

 

Well Jud, when I said eventually for all of us, I assumed that it was understood that I meant "if we live long enough" My dad, for instance, lived to be 95, and he was driving up until then. But my mom had to stop driving when she was 90 because she got to the point where she became confused behind the wheel of the car. While it happens at different ages for different people, eventually one will either die before senility sets in or suffer senility before they die. It's a dirty trick that nature plays on us no matter which way it happens. Your dad was lucky that he had all his facilities up until he died and hopefully he was still ambulatory. That's really the optimum way to go (if that can be said of any way to die): useful and whole, up to the last minute. The only additional "perk" would be to go in one's sleep without knowing it.

 

He had to stop driving when diabetes made him unable to feel the pedals sufficiently. He rode with my mother, who had dementia, doing the driving. Her feel for the pedals was fine, and he told her where to go, so together they made one fairly decent driver.

 

That diabetes is another dirty trick. One of my best friends died of it and he had the same problem with no feeling in his feet that your dad apparently had. In his case, the diabetes caused kidney failure which put him in a coma and he had a do not resuscitate clause in his living will. They tried a couple of times to get his kidneys to restart, but when that failed, they pulled the plug. Very sad.

 

Even for those with mild dementia, self driving cars could have destinations pre-programmed.

 

At some point, I'm sure the technology will get good enough for that, but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen in my lifetime.

[gmgraves]

Olympics regulation 10m air rifles are rather civilized actually:

 

 

 

Sure appeals to the gadgeteer in me