SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[Robby G]

Interesting.  I was playing downloaded DSF files with the old DAC settings with no problem but none of the ripped SACD's would play until I changed settings.  Audirvana is on my laptop, no DAC connected, just the MacBook air sound card -- but I don't want to get off topic.  

 

Are there preferred commonly used output settings on the ISO2DSD?  I'm using Dual and Sony DSF with all the checkboxes checked.  

 

Setting issues/questions notwithstanding, I'm thrilled to be able to rip SACD's and play them from my Roon library.  I'm so glad I didn't sell the BDP-105.

 

Thanks again!   

[MikeyFresh]

47 minutes ago, Robby G said:

Interesting.  I was playing downloaded DSF files with the old DAC settings with no problem but none of the ripped SACD's would play until I changed settings.  Audirvana is on my laptop, no DAC connected, just the MacBook air sound card -- but I don't want to get off topic.  

 

Are there preferred commonly used output settings on the ISO2DSD?  I'm using Dual and Sony DSF with all the checkboxes checked.  

 

Setting issues/questions notwithstanding, I'm thrilled to be able to rip SACD's and play them from my Roon library.  I'm so glad I didn't sell the BDP-105.

 

Thanks again!   

 

Yes, turns out not selling off a 10x series OPPO when upgrading was a wise choice for many. Congrats on that!

 

You have the commonly used settings, though just as many people prefer to create an archival ISO which is a full copy of the entire disc (minus any Redbook material), then extract DSF from the ISO for playback purposes while retaining the ISO as a back-up.

 

Your next step should you wish to rip state-of-the-art in terms of speed and function would be mindset's SACDExtractGUI, it is better than the venerable ISO2DSD in several ways, including one that can be audible, and that's the potential with some DAC/software combos to produce a click noise in between tracks depending on how the ripped disc was authored. This mars gapless playback in particular.

 

SACDExtractGUI has a setting for Padding-less DSF, which minimizes the potential for that issue, as well as it's just faster in terms of rip speed and offers a few other useful functions such as choice of output directory, and Concurrent Mode where one pass of the optical media produces both the ISO and DSF, and they can even be written to 2 different directories simultaneously.

 

[Robby G]

As you can tell, I'm not that technically savvy, so it sounds as if I have some research to do and my work cut out for me.  I'll check out SACDExtractGUI  I haven't noticed any clicking.  For now, I won't dispose of the physical media.

 

How does one convert the ISO file, once it's been ripped from the disk?

[Timb5881]

Well, got my BDP-s390 and a remote for it.  I have had it for a couple of weeks, mainly just checking it out.  Tonight I ripped my first SACD, and working on my second one..   We shall see how it works on more!

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, Robby G said:

How does one convert the ISO file, once it's been ripped from the disk?

 

In either ISO2DSD, or SACDExtractGUI, you switch the input from Server to File, then browse to find your already created ISO, select it, then extract the DSF from it.

[Robby G]

Thanks.  I should have figured that out.  🙂

[chichaz]

On 11/30/2019 at 5:29 PM, Timb5881 said:

Well, got my BDP-s390 and a remote for it.  I have had it for a couple of weeks, mainly just checking it out.  Tonight I ripped my first SACD, and working on my second one..   We shall see how it works on more!

Getting the first one ripped is 99% of the battle. The other 1% is remembering how you did it weeks or months later 😄🙄

 

A bit of unsolicited advice: Save that working flash drive!

 

Congrats and enjoy.

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, chichaz said:

A bit of unsolicited advice: Save that working flash drive!

Yup.  I keep a qualified USB stick attached to each of my Oppos.  An aide-mémoire!

[Sidemounter]

Hello

 

I recently managed to buy a used OPPO BDP-105D-EU model in fine condition, and have used the guidance provided in this ultra-long (194 pages ...) discussion forum to rip my first SACD into Sony DSF files, using the SONORE ISO2DSD package ...

 

So far, so very good.

 

However I am only 50% of the way there, as I need to end up with Hi-Res FLAC files (say, 192kHz 24-bit ones) that my venerable (10+ years old Naim HDX streamer can happily see & read on the connected NAS drive).

 

So: could some kind soul on this group please point me to tested and affordable options for the Sony DSF ===> FLAC  file conversion, to be carried out on my MacBook Pro (so, natively using MacOS if possible, rather a Windows program working on the MacBook under Codeweavers Crossover software)? I am aware of the "Aul ConverteR 48x44" option but it seems rather highly priced, especially as I don't have all that many SACD discs to process (yet ...).

 

Thanks in advance, and I'm sorry if the answer to my request is readily to hand somewhere in the 194 pages. 

 

Sidemounter (joined December 2019)

[Tipo450s]

https://www.sonore.us/dsd2flac.html DSD2Flac For Mac. In Windows Jriver will do the conversion. Also, probably best to covert the DSD file to Flac using a multiple of 44 (88, 176, 352) etc. 

[Redbeemer]

Whichever program you use, I suggest you convert your DSD files to 176.4 flac rather than 192 flac as DSD is based on the 44.1 clock and single rate DSD is an even multiple of 44.1, so when downconverting to 176.4, it is an even multiple of 44.1 and 2.8 MHz DSD.  It is normally preferable when downconverting, to do so as an even integer or fraction thereof.

[Sidemounter]

Many thanks to Tip450s and to Redbeemer for the swift guidance! 

 

I have indeed elected 176.4kHz as the preferred sampling rate, as suggested.

 

Once transferred, these files will be played back from my NAS drive via a Naim HDX and then through a Teddy Pardo "TeddyDAC" (comined DAC and volume control, linked to a pair of Linn active speakers with their own (analogue) amplification built in. 

 

Interestingly, the specs for the TeddyDAC say that it can cope with 192kHz material, but there's no mention of 176.4 kHz material .... let's see how it works in practice.

 

Thanks again from a grateful newbie ...

 

PS: I wonder if JRiver for Mac can function with Catalina and its 64 bit requirement?

 

[Tipo450s]

No worries. I believe Jriver should be fine on Catalina....you can try Jriver free for 30 days. Your DAC should have no issues playing 176 material. 

[Redbeemer]

Although it is a bit unusual for a DAC to handle 24/192, but not 176.4, I actually own a DAC that does exactly that, much to my chagrin.  I didn't realize this until after I purchased it and downloaded an album in 176.4 and it wouldn't play.  I hope that is just an oversight on the marketing dept. and not the actual limitation of the DAC.  I would still recommend you rip to 176.4, even if your DAC won't handle it since you can set JRiver to change resolutions for each individual resolution.  So you could leave every resolution to play at its native sampling rate, but set 176.4 to play at 192 or perhaps 88.2 since this is an even multiple of the basic frequency of single rate DSD.

[Sidemounter]

Prompted by my success at "ripping" the 2 channel content of an SACD or two from my OPPO BDP-105D-EU unit, I wondered about playing the SACD on the OPPO and listening to it through the same hi-fi set-up (if noting else, to do a reasonable comparison of how different the original and the ripped copies sound).

 

I quickly ran into the (documented) restriction on listening to SACD content from the OPPO via the Digital Out coax connection, but have been encouraged by finding online hints that I should be able to listen to it if I use one of the HDMI-out connections on the back of the OPPO to do so.

 

So I'd like to ask for pointers to DACs which include (a) a Volume Control, as well as (b) an HDMI input - in addition to an optical TOSLink input and at least one phone/coax digital input. 

 

My Teddy Pardo "TeddyDAC" lacks the HDMI input, sadly. I've found one possible - a NAD unit, but I suspect that there must be a few others, at affordable price points (especially if used) and [important!] which are not too large.

 

Which thread elsewhere here on audiophilestyle.com (or indeed elsewhere) would anyone point me to, please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[hyendaudio]

Hi Sidemounter

 

I have have very good results with an HDMI extractor into my DAC (which has a volume control) and have used the Monoprice extractor with good success. I recently upgraded to an Essence Evolve II and the Monoprice is gathering dust in a drawer so if you're interested in trying this approach (you will need a good HDMI cable and a great SPDIF cable - I have some suggestions), PM me.

 

Happy New year!

[Kal Rubinson]

 

1 hour ago, Sidemounter said:

I quickly ran into the (documented) restriction on listening to SACD content from the OPPO via the Digital Out coax connection, but have been encouraged by finding online hints that I should be able to listen to it if I use one of the HDMI-out connections on the back of the OPPO to do so.

1.  It's not an OPPO restriction.  It is a DSD restriction.

2.  You should use the analog  outputs of the OPPO and not bother with adding more little boxes.

[Sidemounter]

Thanks.

 

1. I only meant that the restriction is documented in the OPPO manual, but I also realise it has been imposed on OPPO by an upstream licensor.

 

2. Yes, but that would mean adding unwanted complexity to my installation: to acquire a volume control, which is Australia’s-have, I’d have to plug those audio cables into an analogue pre-amp. 
 

... 

[Sidemounter]

47 minutes ago, hyendaudio said:

Hi Sidemounter

 

I have have very good results with an HDMI extractor into my DAC (which has a volume control) and have used the Monoprice extractor with good success. I recently upgraded to an Essence Evolve II and the Monoprice is gathering dust in a drawer so if you're interested in trying this approach (you will need a good HDMI cable and a great SPDIF cable - I have some suggestions), PM me.

 

Happy New year!

 

Thanks to hyendaudio:  but (apart from not seeing where/how I can initiate a PM to you - where are you based? I’m in England ... ) if I’m looking at keeping my existing nifty TeddyDAC and adding an intermediate box, then I’d need something that outputs the hi-res digital signal - extracted from the HDMI input - via co-ax, not optically (as there’s no spare optical input on my existing DAC, but there is a spare co-ax one).

[Kal Rubinson]

57 minutes ago, Sidemounter said:

2. Yes, but that would mean adding unwanted complexity to my installation: to acquire a volume control, which is Australia’s-have, I’d have to plug those audio cables into an analogue pre-amp. 

There's a volume control on the Oppo's RC.

[Redbeemer]

I think that the NAD devices will only handle PCM audio, so you would need to change the settings in the Oppo to send out PCM.  The "problem" with that is that, if I recall correctly, the Oppo will downsample the DSD to 88.2 PCM, so you wouldn't be getting the full benefit of the DSD resolution.  I have a number of older Denon receivers and a Marantz pre-pro which will handle bitstream DSD files via HDMI input from the Oppo.  You could probably pick up one of these used receivers at a reasonable price.  As for your size concerns, most of the Denon/Marantz boxes are fairly large, so you might need to look at one of the "Slim Line" Marantz receivers which are available new for as low as $399 for the 5 channel version or $499 for the 7 channel version (they are essentially the same except for the additional channels).

[chichaz]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:25 PM, Redbeemer said:

Quote

...I suggest you convert your DSD files to 176.4 flac rather than 192 flac as DSD is based on the 44.1 clock and single rate DSD is an even multiple of 44.1, so when downconverting to 176.4, it is an even multiple of 44.1 and 2.8 MHz DSD.  It is normally preferable when downconverting, to do so as an even integer or fraction thereof.

 

I don't know if what I'm about to say is the case with DSD to PCM conversion, but I can tell you several pro mastering engineers agreed at a recent AES convention that PCM to PCM downsampling from non-even multiple rates (say, 192kHz to 44.1kHz) was no longer the issue that it once was, at least for software-based SRCs (sample rate converters). At some point in the past it was preferable to use even multiples, but the quality level in SRCs have caught up. For clarification, software-based SRCs in the pro world exist within the digital audio workstation (DAW) or could be something standalone like Weiss Saracon.

 

Then again this entire discussion of post-ripping playback is off-topic. There are many other threads on this forum that cover the subject... Can we celebrate the new year by returning the discussion to SACD ripping? 

[Robby G]

After getting everything working smoothy (slowly, but smoothly) and ripping all of my SACD's, today I received a new SACD and tried to  rip it as I had done before.  To keep the large files off of my laptop, I had moved the iso2dsd_gui.jar file to my NAS, where it had worked fine.  When I tried to open it today, I got a warning that it could not be opened, since the developer could not be verified.  I overrode that warning and opened the app but when I hit "execute" I got another warning, with no apparent way to override it.  I re-downloaded the file and unzipped it on my laptop, opened it and ran it (to Sony DSF) but repeatedly got an error message that the file wasn't found. I then tried to extract the Raw ISO file, which worked, but when I converted the ISO file to DSD (DFF?) it resulted in the entire multi-track album being converted as a single track.  It sounds fine, but I'd rather have it in it's multi-track form.  Any suggestions on why any  of these problems could be arising or is it just an anomaly with the disc?

[MikeyFresh]

28 minutes ago, Robby G said:

After getting everything working smoothy (slowly, but smoothly) and ripping all of my SACD's, today I received a new SACD and tried to  rip it as I had done before.  To keep the large files off of my laptop, I had moved the iso2dsd_gui.jar file to my NAS, where it had worked fine.  When I tried to open it today, I got a warning that it could not be opened, since the developer could not be verified.  I overrode that warning and opened the app but when I hit "execute" I got another warning, with no apparent way to override it.  I re-downloaded the file and unzipped it on my laptop, opened it and ran it (to Sony DSF) but repeatedly got an error message that the file wasn't found. I then tried to extract the Raw ISO file, which worked, but when I converted the ISO file to DSD (DFF?) it resulted in the entire multi-track album being converted as a single track.  It sounds fine, but I'd rather have it in it's multi-track form.  Any suggestions on why any  of these problems could be arising or is it just an anomaly with the disc?

 

I don't know exactly what is going on there except to say this: Post #4426 contains the download links for mindset's SACDExtractGUI, which is and has been the state-of-the-art ripping tool since fall 2018.

 

While the venerable ISO2DSD has served us quite well, it is neither as fast nor as capable as SACDExtractGUI is. One of the additional features is the ability to name your output directory, so you don't have to worry about the ISO or DSF tracks being written to an already full HDD, you can write them anywhere you want including directly to the NAS for instance.

 

I'm surprised you got ISO2DSD to work at all after moving the .jar file, the instructions specifically say to leave all of the downloaded folder's contents together, you can't separate it:

 

Requirements: The sacd_extract file, version.txt, and the iso2dsd_gui.jar file need to be in the same folder, Java needs to be installed, 64 bit OS

[Robby G]

1 minute ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I don't know exactly what is going on there except to say this: Post #4426 contains the download links for mindset's SACDExtractGUI, which is and has been the state-of-the art ripping tool since fall 2018.

 

While the venerable ISO2DSD has served us quite well, it neither as fast nor as capable as SACDExtractGUI is. One of the additional features is the ability to name your output directory, so you don't have to worry about the ISO or DSF tracks being written to an already full HDD, you can write them anywhere you want including directly to the NAS for instance.

 

I'm surprised you got ISO2DSD to work at all after moving the .jar file, the instructions specifically say to leave all of the downloaded folder's contents together, you can't separate it.

Thanks Mikey.  I hadn't separated it and it had worked before.  Despite a frustrating day, I shut down and tried it one more time - from the NAS - just as I had done repeatedly all morning and afternoon, and now it appears to be extracting directly to Sony DSF just as it had in the past.  It will be another hour before I can be sure that it's working properly but I guess I jumped the gun in posting the question.  

 

Thanks all!