Article: Sonore microRendu Review, Part 1

[The Computer Audiophile]

I am, however, questioning whether the "purpose built" approach that is being advocated by Sonore provides any better audio quality. I don't believe it does. Apparently the engineers at Bryston agree with me, with their approach of using the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board as the core of their new BD-Pi.

 

I hope you realize the breakdown in your logic.

 

Your opinion = Purpose built component isn't better than Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board

Bryston selected the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board for one of its products

Thus, Bsyston agrees with you that purpose built products don't provide better audio quality.

 

 

That makes no sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am also questioning the longer term approach of packaging a bunch of open source modules with a proprietary hardware product like this and how future-proof it will be. Actually, I'm questioning how usable is the current software packaged with the Sonore unit compared to integrated Linux distros such as Volumio and Moode. Yes, Squeezelite is one option for the microRendu, but the piCorePlayer platform incorporates the latest releases of Squeezelite with other options and software (e.g. Shairplay), providing what I am guessing (since I haven't used the Sonore software) is a more integrated, functionally complete and easy to use interface. Third party apps that control the Linux MPD player (an option for the microRendu) are pretty weak, whereas Volumio, Moode and Rune offer highly usable UI's that run in standard web browsers but with CSS tuned to smart phones and tablets above and beyond PC's.

 

Nothing is future-proof.

 

You're making comments about software you've never seen and it's showing. microRendu has Shairplay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And regarding Doak's comment that I'm not welcome here...

 

Everyone is welcome here as long as they are respectful. You've been very respectful with your comments so far, although I don't agree with them. No big deal.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, to end here by adding more fuel to the fire ...I'm sure the above two Medium postings will provide a bunch of you with a lot more ammo for snarky comments. Bring it on.

 

This makes me think you came here with a hidden agenda and weakens any arguments you tried to make. Bummer. I thought some of your comments were worthy of discussion, but it appears you were really interested in an open discussion.

[Doak]

Admittedly, my admonition was heavy handed and out of place. Sorry.

 

It does rub me the wrong way to see productive threads sidetracked/hijacked by those not genuinely interested or involved in the subject/object under discussion.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi skikirkwood - One last thing after reading about your disdain for high end publications and including Computer Audiophile in your list of publications (slightly implying CA is like the rest of them).

 

We've been talking about using Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone Back's for years. Here are a couple articles that didn't please any advertisers -

 

Computer Audiophile - Geek Speak: Raspberry Pi HiFi Is Here

 

Computer Audiophile - Geek Speak: How To Build A UPnP / DLNA / OpenHome Renderer For Less Than $100

 

 

In addition we actually educate around here as well -

 

Computer Audiophile - CA Academy

[firedog]

Well, let's keep on beating that dead horse. First of all, I didn't choose a DIY solution to save a few bucks. I had a Squeezebox Touch and after several years was curious as to what might provide a better streaming component for my stereo. So investing $50 was a low cost and low risk experiment to see what could be done as a possible replacement. I'm not naturally a DIY kind of guy - but the risk/reward ratio here seemed worthwhile to try it.

 

A friend of mine replaced his HRT MusicStreamer II+ with a $6500 Playback Designs MPD-3, and let me have the HRT DAC on permanent loan. Comparing the sound of the Squeezebox (with its built-in DAC) to the Raspberry Pi B+ and MusicStreamer, I heard a significantly better sound on my Bryston/B&W system. As part of that experiment, I tried out various Linux distros and found them hard to work with and configure for audio - until I stumbled upon Volumio. It's a highly tuned Linux distro designed for a headless SBC acting as an audio streamer.

 

Then I started reading about the advantages of I2S DAC's, and thought for $45 it would be fun to try one and compare the sound to the HRT DAC, so I bought an IQAudio Pi-DAC+. IQAudio is as far as I can tell a one man company from Glasgow who recently moved to England. I like supporting small companies with innovative products, and everything I read about his DAC indicated it was pretty remarkable. When I received the DAC it took 5 minutes to add it on top of the Pi, power it up, and use Volumio's Web-based UI to choose it as the audio output device, as well as enable the hardware volume control it supports. The sound was stunning. No soldering involved, which is good, since I've never soldered anything in my life.

 

I was blown away how good this little DAC sounded. And I've had my friend's Playback Designs DAC in my music room. Perhaps the MPD-3 had a bit better soundstage and depth, but not a very big difference. And that's before I discovered I could change the default digital interpolation filter on the DAC to one which I thought sounded even better.

 

After that I forked up another $15 and bought a case for the Pi/DAC combo - that was the hardest part of the whole DIY effort - taping the corners of the case components before screwing them in.

 

Since then I bought another Pi, the 3, and another IQAudio DAC, along with a bunch of microSD cards, having tried out Moode and Rune Audio distributions. I'm currently running Volumio on one, and piCorePlayer on the other. I then added the open source Spotify Connect module to Volumio, so even though Volumio supports Spotify now I can use the Pi as a Spotify Connect device, which is a big improvement.

 

None of this was to "save money". It was due to my curiosity, and I think it's a lot of fun to play around with the various "audiophile" linux distros.

 

I'm also not saying the solutions I stumbled upon are "superior" to commercial solutions such as the microRendu. Different people have different requirements and weights as to what provides the superior solution to them. I am, however, questioning whether the "purpose built" approach that is being advocated by Sonore provides any better audio quality. I don't believe it does. Apparently the engineers at Bryston agree with me, with their approach of using the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board as the core of their new BD-Pi.

 

I am also questioning the longer term approach of packaging a bunch of open source modules with a proprietary hardware product like this and how future-proof it will be. Actually, I'm questioning how usable is the current software packaged with the Sonore unit compared to integrated Linux distros such as Volumio and Moode. Yes, Squeezelite is one option for the microRendu, but the piCorePlayer platform incorporates the latest releases of Squeezelite with other options and software (e.g. Shairplay), providing what I am guessing (since I haven't used the Sonore software) is a more integrated, functionally complete and easy to use interface. Third party apps that control the Linux MPD player (an option for the microRendu) are pretty weak, whereas Volumio, Moode and Rune offer highly usable UI's that run in standard web browsers but with CSS tuned to smart phones and tablets above and beyond PC's.

 

And regarding Doak's comment that I'm not welcome here, this is, after all, a comment thread on a review of the microRendu. So in any critical review, and the comment thread to follow, I believe the basic design approach and "benefits" of the product should be questioned and debated. I also believe alternatives should be compared. Hence, my motivation for my original posting.

 

Now, to end here by adding more fuel to the fire, after reading up on digital audio over the last year I decided to post my first article on Medium about what I found. Here it is:

 

https://medium.com/@skikirkwood/truth-lies-and-fraud-in-the-audiophile-world-a365e56c97c4#.nhblwvrgi

 

And I followed that with a post on how I evolved from an early CD player to my current gear:

 

https://medium.com/@skikirkwood/how-to-play-2000-cds-without-a-cd-player-d6f231057971#.xikszxv5l

 

I'm sure the above two Medium postings will provide a bunch of you with a lot more ammo for snarky comments. Bring it on.

 

Thanks. That's a well written post with a well thought out process described.

 

Part of the reaction to what you originally wrote is because we (I) unfairly lumped you with DIYers who say about every product, "I can do it better for 1/10 of the price". The truth is that in the vast majority of cases they can't; and in the cases where the DIY route does result in something with equal sound quality, it may be: a)only so on their setup, and not on someone else's; b)inconvenient to use for others when the commercial product isn't; c)missing some feature the builder doesn't care about but others do; d) ugly - and yes some of us care about how things look and are willing to pay for better looking products; e) without true product support, not just Google searches and forum support.

 

I personally have used linux products that were way too fiddly for me. I can go in and do command line stuff to get things to work, update, etc. - but I don't want to - ever. I just want to play my music. So I don't want to DIY, even if I pay for the privilege not to.

 

It may be that the microRendu and other products like it don't sound better than a "one PC" solution or a "two PC solution" like you came up with. But when I do comparisons in either of those scenarios, the mR sounds better to me than my alternatives. If I'm fooling myself or enjoying euphonious added distortion, so be it.

 

As far as software, I don't exactly get your point. Are you trying to say there's risk involved b/c the support for the unit might disappear? That's certainly possible, but it's true of just about all hifi devices including those from big companies. My previous player is from SOtM, and it's now no longer being given support. For me, the mR has built in the ability to use all the software packages I'm interested in - now and in the foreseeable future. It also has support from people who give proper support of their products.

 

I read your blog posts and disagree with some of what you wrote. Your bit about Nyquist and why hi-res is irrelevant shows an incomplete understanding of the theory - because the theory makes several assumptions (has conditions for it to work) that don't exist in almost every Redbook recording. And thinking hi-res is a worthwhile medium isn't about humans being able to hear frequencies above 20k. I also don't accept Waldrep's definition of high res. That can all be discussed elsewhere in more detail.

As far as audio publications and expensive products: a) they don't always say the more expensive stuff sounds better, but instead of dissing an expensive piece, they will say that a less expensive product sounds as good or better than many more expensive pieces, or that it sounds very close to the much more expensive piece, and may be a better value for some readers. That kind of stuff is pretty common, and is one of the things I look for in reviews. b)my understanding is also that for most reviewers and publications - if they truly think the product is subpar they simply don't publish the review and return the piece. You may not approve of that approach, I get it. But that's why you only see positive reviews.

[skikirkwood]

Nothing is future-proof.

 

You're making comments about software you've never seen and it's showing. microRendu has Shairplay.

 

Yes, I am making comments about software I haven't seen, but have read the description from Sonore's site. And in that description, it appears that the only software contribution Sonore has made here is the "Audio App Switcher", that lets you choose between 5 different output modes. And it appears these modes are exclusive of each other - you can only choose one at a time. Meaning that I have to choose say between SqueezeLite Output mode and ShairPort Output mode. You've used this software Chris, so am I correct?

 

If I am, then yes, I'm saying this approach of having to choose between one of a number of exclusive modes is vastly inferior in terms of user experience to any of the integrated audiophile tuned Linux distros, with Volumio being my favorite, but Moode looking increasingly interesting, and piCorePlayer being a good choice for those migrating from the Squeezebox Touch. That's the whole point behind these efforts and the hard work of the hackers evolving these systems is to add a layer of integration on top of the low level single purpose open source packages.

 

So this point is not about commercial vs. DIY, it's not about cost, it's about user experience. Since I don't have access to a microRendu, I would be interested in hearing from someone who does, and also has experience with Volumio/Rune/Moode, to compare the end user experience of operating the unit. As someone who closely follows both Volumio and piCorePlayer, I believe the effort of adding value and integration on top of the individual packages such as SqueezeLite and ShairPort provide you with a much more enjoyable experience of accessing your music - for those who don't want to make the investment in Roon that is.

 

Regarding the future-proof comment, yes, nothing is future-proof, but some things are more than others. Take the apps within smart TV's. If you bought a LG TV a few years ago, by now the majority of the apps in that TV no longer work. If you buy a Roku or other streaming device and hook it up to your TV, you are going to almost always have the most up to date apps, as well as the largest selection of them. That's because the TV manufacturers are hardware companies, and want you to upgrade to a new TV versus putting the effort into retrofitting their older hardware models with the latest software. Yes, Roku is a hardware manufacturer too, but compared to virtually all TV manufacturers they've ensured their older models will support the newest versions of apps on their platform.

 

So when i look at offerings such as what Sonore is providing here - a hardware company providing a software solution of separate open source packages with no value added or integration - I wonder a year or two how many of the latest versions of those packages will be available and supported on the microRendu. That's a very valid question to ask, as I've been personally burned by buying expensive hardware units such as Tivo devices, only to be forced to purchase a newer model to have access to software features that certainly could have been added to my older device. But that wouldn't provide motivation for a hardware upgrade, the core of Tivo's (or any consumer hardware) business model.

[skikirkwood]

Hi skikirkwood - One last thing after reading about your disdain for high end publications and including Computer Audiophile in your list of publications (slightly implying CA is like the rest of them).

 

We've been talking about using Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone Back's for years. Here are a couple articles that didn't please any advertisers -

 

Computer Audiophile - Geek Speak: Raspberry Pi HiFi Is Here

 

Computer Audiophile - Geek Speak: How To Build A UPnP / DLNA / OpenHome Renderer For Less Than $100

 

 

In addition we actually educate around here as well -

 

Computer Audiophile - CA Academy

 

Hi Chris, I should have been clearer in my Medium posting when saying "most" of these publications. I like Inner Fidelity, trust Audioholics, and would not place this blog in the commercial category of AudioStream/Stereophile/TAS/ etc. That's why I decided to do a post here and see what happened.

 

My audiophile friend and former college roommate alerted me to your initial Beaglebone Black article knowing I was fooling around with Rpi's and that's when I started reading your blog.

 

That said, as I mentioned in my post, I do believe AudioStream/TAS and others are not much more than an advertising vehicle for the high end audio industry, and purposely mislead their readers with FUD to prop up the the demand for $1000 ethernet cables.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Yes, I am making comments about software I haven't seen, but have read the description from Sonore's site. And in that description, it appears that the only software contribution Sonore has made here is the "Audio App Switcher", that lets you choose between 5 different output modes. And it appears these modes are exclusive of each other - you can only choose one at a time. Meaning that I have to choose say between SqueezeLite Output mode and ShairPort Output mode. You've used this software Chris, so am I correct?

 

If I am, then yes, I'm saying this approach of having to choose between one of a number of exclusive modes is vastly inferior in terms of user experience to any of the integrated audiophile tuned Linux distros, with Volumio being my favorite, but Moode looking increasingly interesting, and piCorePlayer being a good choice for those migrating from the Squeezebox Touch. That's the whole point behind these efforts and the hard work of the hackers evolving these systems is to add a layer of integration on top of the low level single purpose open source packages.

 

So this point is not about commercial vs. DIY, it's not about cost, it's about user experience. Since I don't have access to a microRendu, I would be interested in hearing from someone who does, and also has experience with Volumio/Rune/Moode, to compare the end user experience of operating the unit. As someone who closely follows both Volumio and piCorePlayer, I believe the effort of adding value and integration on top of the individual packages such as SqueezeLite and ShairPort provide you with a much more enjoyable experience of accessing your music - for those who don't want to make the investment in Roon that is.

 

Regarding the future-proof comment, yes, nothing is future-proof, but some things are more than others. Take the apps within smart TV's. If you bought a LG TV a few years ago, by now the majority of the apps in that TV no longer work. If you buy a Roku or other streaming device and hook it up to your TV, you are going to almost always have the most up to date apps, as well as the largest selection of them. That's because the TV manufacturers are hardware companies, and want you to upgrade to a new TV versus putting the effort into retrofitting their older hardware models with the latest software. Yes, Roku is a hardware manufacturer too, but compared to virtually all TV manufacturers they've ensured their older models will support the newest versions of apps on their platform.

 

So when i look at offerings such as what Sonore is providing here - a hardware company providing a software solution of separate open source packages with no value added or integration - I wonder a year or two how many of the latest versions of those packages will be available and supported on the microRendu. That's a very valid question to ask, as I've been personally burned by buying expensive hardware units such as Tivo devices, only to be forced to purchase a newer model to have access to software features that certainly could have been added to my older device. But that wouldn't provide motivation for a hardware upgrade, the core of Tivo's (or any consumer hardware) business model.

It's not my place to defend Sonore, so I won't. but you've got much of this wrong. I have a feeling your bent against HiFi, as evidenced by your Medium posts, has clouded your judgement.

 

Sonore and Small Green Computer have made so many behind the scenes software contributions that most people will never realize. I get it you overlooked my comments about this in the first part of this review, but it's true.

 

The customer for this device wants exclusive mode only. The rest of your suggestions that an approach is better or worse is purely based on your use of the product and your understanding of a different market.

 

I still don't get your idea about no support and using the TV industry as an example. It's not relevant here. Please be specific with this product in your examples.

 

Sonore is the hardware company and Small Green Computer is the software company.

[skikirkwood]

Part of the reaction to what you originally wrote is because we (I) unfairly lumped you with DIYers who say about every product, "I can do it better for 1/10 of the price". The truth is that in the vast majority of cases they can't; and in the cases where the DIY route does result in something with equal sound quality, it may be: a)only so on their setup, and not on someone else's; b)inconvenient to use for others when the commercial product isn't; c)missing some feature the builder doesn't care about but others do; d) ugly - and yes some of us care about how things look and are willing to pay for better looking products; e) without true product support, not just Google searches and forum support.

 

While I may be calling my current setup DIY, it is of course based upon two commercial hardware products - the Raspberry Pi, and the IQAudio DAC. What's lacking is a systems integrator that sells and supports the combination, combined with one or more of the audiophile Linux distros, but I think that is coming soon.

 

In terms of point d), yeah I love the look of my B&W speakers with grills removed, never get tired of staring at my Bryston electronics, and actually think the smoked acrylic case from IQAudio looks pretty damned cool - with the LED's shining through at night.

 

Instead of buying a second IQAudio DAC I was going to purchase an Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC ES9023, which some have said has a slightly better sound than the TI PCM-5122 DAC chip used in the IQAudio. But then I saw IQAudio was developing an aluminum case with an OLED display, and my newest Pi is without a case waiting for this new bad boy!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I was going to purchase an Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC ES9023, which some have said has a slightly better sound than the TI PCM-5122 DAC chip used in the IQAudio.

Measurements, or the difference doesn't exist. Only kidding. I couldn't resist. :~)

[skikirkwood]

The customer for this device wants exclusive mode only. The rest of your suggestions that an approach is better or worse is purely based on your use of the product and your understanding of a different market.

 

I disagree. If the customer wants to use it as a Roon endpoint yes. But many people will want to use SqueezeLite output or MPD output in conjunction with the ShairPort Airplay emulator. You're listening to your music collection on a network share streaming to the microRendu running MPD and may want to fire up a Tidal or Spotify app on your smartphone or tablet and beam it to the Airport emulator. That should be seamless, which it is with Volumio/Rune/Moode, but it sounds like with the microRendu I have to invoke the Audio App Switcher and change output modes. Not having seen this I don't know how it works, but it certainly doesn't sound seamless as it is with these audiophile distros whose primary purpose is to provide an integrated experience of using several packages without changing "output modes". Another example is adding tracks to a playlist, where those tracks can come from your network share, Spotify, Tidal, etc. Sounds like I can't do that in MPD Output mode on the Sonore.

 

The customers of Volumio/Rune/Moode are by and large audiophiles who use these distributions because they provide a better end user experience than any one open source module in exclusive mode. I believe they are exactly the same market Sonore is targeting with the microRendu.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I disagree. If the customer wants to use it as a Roon endpoint yes. But many people will want to use SqueezeLite output or MPD output in conjunction with the ShairPort Airplay emulator. You're listening to your music collection on a network share streaming to the microRendu running MPD and may want to fire up a Tidal or Spotify app on your smartphone or tablet and beam it to the Airport emulator. That should be seamless, which it is with Volumio/Rune/Moode, but it sounds like with the microRendu I have to invoke the Audio App Switcher and change output modes. Not having seen this I don't know how it works, but it certainly doesn't sound seamless as it is with these audiophile distros whose primary purpose is to provide an integrated experience of using several packages without changing "output modes". Another example is adding tracks to a playlist, where those tracks can come from your network share, Spotify, Tidal, etc. Sounds like I can't do that in MPD Output mode on the Sonore.

 

The customers of Volumio/Rune/Moode are by and large audiophiles who use these distributions because they provide a better end user experience than any one open source module in exclusive mode. I believe they are exactly the same market Sonore is targeting with the microRendu.

Based on my experience reading hundreds of thousands of posts, running CA since 2007, talking to hundreds of audiophiles all over the world, I will respectfully disagree with you.

 

Not many people even use AirPlay anymore. I think the market for your seamless AirPlay / MPD integration is a tiny but very vocal minority.

[barrows]

from skikirkwood:

 

"I'm also not saying the solutions I stumbled upon are "superior" to commercial solutions such as the microRendu. Different people have different requirements and weights as to what provides the superior solution to them. I am, however, questioning whether the "purpose built" approach that is being advocated by Sonore provides any better audio quality. I don't believe it does. Apparently the engineers at Bryston agree with me, with their approach of using the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board as the core of their new BD-Pi."

 

And there is the rub, and why folks are upset with you. You post pure speculation: "I don't believe it does", without any experience. Those of us that do have the experience which you lack, have found that purpose built solutions do offer tangible, significant improvements in sound quality. Until you actually have the experience, perhaps it would be best if you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.

[skikirkwood]

Measurements, or the difference doesn't exist. Only kidding. I couldn't resist. :~)

 

When the Raspberry Pi 4 comes out, I will purchase one along with the latest Audiophonics Sabre ESS DAC and report my findings.

 

By the way, Audiophonics already sells a pretty cool network player based around a Raspberry Pi 2, DAC Sabre V3 chip and a custom case with an OLED display. And runs Volumio, Moode and piCorePlayer too! Too bad they don't have a U.S. distributor.

 

AUDIOPHONICS RaspDAC Network player Raspberry Pi 2.0 & DAC Sabre V3 - Audiophonics

[Doak]

Extinction: a procedure used in Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA) in which reinforcement that is provided for problem behavior (often unintentionally) is discontinued in order to decrease or eliminate occurrences of these types of negative (or problem) behaviors.

[firedog]

I disagree. If the customer wants to use it as a Roon endpoint yes. But many people will want to use SqueezeLite output or MPD output in conjunction with the ShairPort Airplay emulator. You're listening to your music collection on a network share streaming to the microRendu running MPD and may want to fire up a Tidal or Spotify app on your smartphone or tablet and beam it to the Airport emulator. That should be seamless, which it is with Volumio/Rune/Moode, but it sounds like with the microRendu I have to invoke the Audio App Switcher and change output modes. Not having seen this I don't know how it works, but it certainly doesn't sound seamless as it is with these audiophile distros whose primary purpose is to provide an integrated experience of using several packages without changing "output modes". Another example is adding tracks to a playlist, where those tracks can come from your network share, Spotify, Tidal, etc. Sounds like I can't do that in MPD Output mode on the Sonore.

 

The customers of Volumio/Rune/Moode are by and large audiophiles who use these distributions because they provide a better end user experience than any one open source module in exclusive mode. I believe they are exactly the same market Sonore is targeting with the microRendu.

 

Think you're quite wrong here. The customers for Sonic Orbiter OS basically want plug and play ethernet to USB solution in a "2PC" setup b/c they think that gives them the best SQ, in principle. Based on several years of experience, and interaction with other users of the OS, I'm pretty sure most of us have one mode we use almost all the time. On this forum there are a lot of people who've bought it as a Roon endpoint or as an HQP endpoint - or who like it specifically as an HQP NAA with Roon as the interface to the NAA.

 

As Chris indicated, using it in one mode at a time is exactly what we are looking for. I can run it in 4 of the 5 modes in my setup, but I'm not interested. Before I bought Roon and HQP I used it exclusively in MPD/DLNA mode with JRiver, now I use it exclusively in NAA mode. One of the reasons I bought it is exactly the software package. I knew it would "just work" from the moment I plugged it in my setup. I'm not really interested in any other UI besides Roon or barring Roon, JRiver/JRemote at this point. I've tried lots of them and those are the only two that truly fit the way I like to listen and the interact with my library.

 

I suspect (and I'm not trying to be snarky) that many of the audiophile users of Volumio/Rune/Moode use them not only because they like them, but because they are free. That's fine. Some of us are willing to pay $50 or $100 or more for what we consider a superior user experience. To each his/her own. Are you positive the users of free software would still be using them if some of the commercial software packages were somehow free?

 

And again, you haven't used the software so you don't get quite how it works. In MPD/DLNA mode it can be used with a program like JRiver and some other software so you can do just about anything with a playlist or anything else you can think of to do in an audio interface. One of the things you aren't quite getting is that a lot of the members here use one of the widely available commercial playback software packages like JRiver, Roon, HQP, Audirvana, etc. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the users, or at least of the posters.

 

"We" use them b/c we think they provide some feature that open source software doesn't (nothing open source can do what HQP does), or because we prefer the GUI they provide (JRiver/JRemote and Roon come to mind). Ditto for different software for Apple users. You may think the open source software provides a better user experience, many of us would respectfully and forcefully disagree.

[feelingears]

 

And there is the rub, and why folks are upset with you. You post pure speculation: "I don't believe it does", without any experience. Those of us that do have the experience which you lack, have found that purpose built solutions do offer tangible, significant improvements in sound quality. Until you actually have the experience, perhaps it would be best if you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.

 

@barrows

 

+10^1000

 

I'm fascinated by the human psychology that audio arouses in people. You never see/hear this kind of diatribe against expensive cars, meals, toast (in San Fran, of course), etc.

 

But oh, those ones and zeros, they can't possibly be anything other than ones and zeros...

 

Well, thank God others hear it too because they build great gear that sounds great to me. SOUNDS great! That's what it's for, remember? I can't speak for others, but I suspect most of us here buy stuff that sounds great, not because it has blinky lights or has an unobtainium faceplate. (Sigh.)

 

Chris, we happily await part two of your review. Thank you.

[MikeJazz]

Hi Chris, I should have been clearer in my Medium posting when saying "most" of these publications. I like Inner Fidelity, trust Audioholics, and would not place this blog in the commercial category of AudioStream/Stereophile/TAS/ etc. That's why I decided to do a post here and see what happened.

Glad to see you clearing the air. After all, if you are here in CA writing such lengthy post I think that your motivation is not only to share your view of things but also to learn something more...

 

That said, as I mentioned in my post, I do believe AudioStream/TAS and others are not much more than an advertising vehicle for the high end audio industry, and purposely mislead their readers with FUD to prop up the the demand for $1000 ethernet cables.

 

I certainly relate to your general skepticism.

Just note this. If you have not heard a component, you cannot have an opinion about that component...

 

Even if you heard in your system, the same component will behave differently in another system.

In my system a cable made no difference. In another system, with far mode superior resolution, it made clear

Do I remain skeptical about cables...I would say in my system, yes...

 

Be open to relativism.

 

Cheers.

[master]

How is the inevitable crunch in bandwidth because of the combined Ethernet/USB controller in the Raspi no different than Auralic, a PC, Mac Mini, especially for high-rate DSD?

 

The Raspberry Pi 3's wireless LAN does not share the USB bus, so its perfectly alright to use USB/ethernet to connect to an external HDD or NAS and use WiFi for streaming.

 

I'm not into DSD, but how much b/w will it need? The Pi 3 gives 100 Mbps, and 4K video needs 25 Mbps, which I know for sure cause I've streamed 4K content via Netflix.

 

Obviously open to correction here (from folks who are streaming DSD).

 

It never will sound the same as a motherboard, a set of components, interfaces and power distribution designed from the ground up to do one thing and one thing really well: computer for the best SQ.

 

This device is not in the same league as a general-purpose SBC at all. One is a Lamborghini Countach, the other is a Lada. Both can make you travel from point A to B faster than by foot and you can sure work on a Lada to improve it...

 

I'm the first one to admit that the Pi sucks for both USB and HDMI, though I've seen the Pi USB plugged into a Regen and also direct to DACs like 2Qute. Myself though wouldn't use the Pi via USB, at least not unless I'm using something like USB Regen.

 

However, none of the interconnects and ports matter in the case of wireless streaming. I've personally heard the Aries Mini and the Pi in DLNA mode and I could not hear anything different or even pick between the two. Via USB, yes sure the Aries will walk all over the Pi. Like you put it, it's designed to do computer audio well.

 

My point - In my instance, using 100% DLNA, I cannot hear anything different from a $35 Pi, $800 NAS, $400 Aries Mini, or my $2500 gaming PC.

 

PS: FWIW, even Auralic tells you that wireless may sound better than wired and no I'm not getting into which is better.

[master]

I suspect (and I'm not trying to be snarky) that many of the audiophile users of Volumio/Rune/Moode use them not only because they like them, but because they are free. That's fine. Some of us are willing to pay $50 or $100 or more for what we consider a superior user experience. To each his/her own. Are you positive the users of free software would still be using them if some of the commercial software packages were somehow free?

 

Coming from JRiver and JPlay with a 2 PC setup I can certainly say hell yeah baby. Moode is excellent and MinimServer is the shiznit.

 

Bug Head Emperor is the best ever (again free), seriously its the best ever if you have the PC for it. I know folks with seriously high end systems using it. Though I have the PC for it, its still too much work for me, and I don't look for the analog/vinyl sound.

 

MinimServer is the shiznit as far as I'm concerned and I've already been corrected by @Cebolla that its not a media player and should not be called one.

 

PS: Even back in the day (and I really mean back in the day), cPlay (free) walked all over JRiver in SQ. Of course freeware is not always supported or updated, developers lose interest, and may even become paid, but just because something costs $50 or $100 does not make it the best either.

 

Superior user experience, yes certainly. All the freeware I've mentioned look ugly and need a couple of hours to even figure out, and then again most folks will never get it. Even to this day I do not understand or even know what all the filters and options do in BHE, but it sure walks over everything in terms of SQ.

[vortecjr]

Can you please move these off topic discussions to a new thread.

[YashN]

The Raspberry Pi 3's wireless LAN does not share the USB bus, so its perfectly alright to use USB/ethernet to connect to an external HDD or NAS and use WiFi for streaming.

 

Wireless is usually unbelievably noisy...

[skikirkwood]

I suspect (and I'm not trying to be snarky) that many of the audiophile users of Volumio/Rune/Moode use them not only because they like them, but because they are free. That's fine. Some of us are willing to pay $50 or $100 or more for what we consider a superior user experience. To each his/her own. Are you positive the users of free software would still be using them if some of the commercial software packages were somehow free?

 

And again, you haven't used the software so you don't get quite how it works. In MPD/DLNA mode it can be used with a program like JRiver and some other software so you can do just about anything with a playlist or anything else you can think of to do in an audio interface. One of the things you aren't quite getting is that a lot of the members here use one of the widely available commercial playback software packages like JRiver, Roon, HQP, Audirvana, etc. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the users, or at least of the posters.

 

After reading your comment I downloaded a trial of Jriver on my Mac, but it hung twice and I gave up. I understand it's by and large a Windows product with a follow-on OS X port, but it looks like they have more work to do for the Mac. I tried Roon a while ago but had 4 issues with it.

 

 

1. The iPad app wasn't supported on my iPad 2
   
2. No Spotify support
   
3. A bug that raised the volume of my home office KEF X300 A speakers to 100% (still recovering from that)
   
4. The price
   

 

I realize most people here are Tidal users and that's fine - I find the user experience of Spotify a big step up from Tidal and have 5 different devices in my house that support Spotify Connect.

 

So for me Roon and Jriver don't work. But I also utilize a lot of music sources beyond my own library and Spotify. I have a premium subscription to DI.fm, I like the SomaFM Internet streaming stations, there's great exclusive content on SoundCloud, occasionally use Pandora, TuneIn, Noon Pacific, live concerts on YouTube etc. LMS support some of these but not all, which is why it's great to have Airplay support easily accessible without going into a browser interface to change output modes of a renderer.

 

I can't speak for others in the Volumio/Moode/Rune/piCorePlayer community, but I don't think it's about the fact that they are free. I think it's more of a movement, and people like being part of it. Many of us have made financial contributions to these efforts with amounts equal to or above the cost of the commercial software packages you list. Could be an age thing here too, not sure what the median age of people on this forum are, but I'm guessing there's a younger crowd attracted to the SBC and audiophile Linux distro ecosystem.

[master]

Wireless is usually unbelievably noisy...

 

Please elaborate.

 

I run my music i.e. NAS and all endpoints on a separate network switch and wireless network.

 

But being audiophiles, what would we be if not for endless tweaking and getting the best SQ.

 

I cannot hear any noise with wireless, in fact the noise floor has come down a lot since going wireless, even measurably so, but I'm always open to further tweaking and improving.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I know these are interesting topics, but that's what the entire forum is for. Please discuss non-microRendu related topics in another thread or risk having your comments deleted.

[Account Closed]

I was going to do a fairly long post about how awesome the microRendu/sonicTransporter combo is (which it indeed is) but why bother. This and many other CA threads have become polluted with side arguments and other typical troll behavior to the point where it bears no resemblance to the topic at hand. There seems to be a desire to argue for the sake of arguing and it makes it very difficult to extract any useful info. Who really wants to sift through hundreds of posts when most are long diatribes and many are off topic in pursuit of something about the product.

 

Chris, Please get this under control. Other websites and forums are taking a much more aggressive posture and it has made them much more civil and useful.