SOtM smS-200 unveiled at Munich Hi-End

[ronfint]

8 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I don't see 0.4.60? Latest is still 0 4.59 according to Eunhasu

 

The upgrade from 4.57 takes two steps. 

[Tommd64]

19 minutes ago, ronfint said:

The upgrade from 4.57 takes two steps. 

 

[dgilz]

14 hours ago, ronfint said:

What role does one's computer play once it tells Eunhasu to update?

The update is launched and monitored by the web service, so it depends on your web browser and Safari is only available on MacOS, system that usually runs on Apple PCs.

[Confused]

As I mentioned way back in post #1784, I had reverted back to V0.4.57.

 

This morning I reinstated my V0.4.59 microSD card and updated to V0.4.60.  With a Windows PC and Chrome this was relatively quick and easy, I also updated the Kernel, which took a couple of minutes.

 

Much to my amazement, I can now run HQPlayer with 100BASE-T selected.  I note that some earlier posters have issues with HQPlayer and 100BASE-T.  So for the record, this was upsampling to 24/192 pcm and IPv6 enabled in Eunhasu.

 

OK, so far so good.  The trouble is that I had decided that I prefer V0.4.57 to either '58 or '59, in my system at least.  So, I reinstated the old V0.4.57 card, ran through a playlist, switched to V.0.4.60, played the same tracks again.  The result is good, to my ears V0.4.60 is the best of the lot.  Bass definition seams better, punchier and more powerful, overall presentation is a little richer (in a good way), treble smoother, all good.   Switching back to V0.4.57, yes, slightly thinner and some of the highs a little harsh.  This is all relatively speaking, of course, we are talking fine margins here, but I am definitely happy stick with V0.4.60.  Another small step away from digital reproduction to sounding like the real thing, good stuff!

 

 

[Confused]

One point to clarify re the above post.  I mentioned that HQPlayer works with 100BASE-T selected.  This is true, it has run today for many hours trouble free.  However, it would appear that 100BASE-T is not actually working with HQPlayer, as is evident from the bright green light on my Ethernet switch, rather than the orange light that should accompany 100BASE-T.  I wonder if Eunhasu simply defaults to 1000BASE-T when HQPlayer mode is selected?

[Tommd64]

9 hours ago, Confused said:

One point to clarify re the above post.  I mentioned that HQPlayer works with 100BASE-T selected.  This is true, it has run today for many hours trouble free.  However, it would appear that 100BASE-T is not actually working with HQPlayer, as is evident from the bright green light on my Ethernet switch, rather than the orange light that should accompany 100BASE-T.  I wonder if Eunhasu simply defaults to 1000BASE-T when HQPlayer mode is selected?

Its easy confused. Just check out youre eunhasu program. The lights on your switch are different by 100t settings in stead off 1000t settings right??

[Confused]

A bit more experimenting this morning.  What I have found is that with Roon, 100BASE-T and auto negotiation "on" selected, I get a bright green light on my Ethernet switch, which shows it is actually running 1000BASE-T.  Everything works perfectly in terms of stutter free playback.  I can then switch to Roon, 100BASE-T and auto negotiation "off", I get an orange light on my Ethernet switch, which shows it is running 100BASE-T, Roon does not work, with stuttering or "an audio file is loading slowly" error message.  I have tried the full range of buffer settings, which appeared to make little difference.  

 

It is much the same with HQPlayer, it works perfectly with auto negotiation on but it is really running 1000BASE-T, it does not work with auto negotiation off.

 

So in summary, 100BASE-T does not work with auto negotiation on, Roon and HQPlayer do not work with auto negotiation off.  So in my system at least, the 100BASE-T mode appears to be useless.  Maybe there is some other setting I need to tweak?  Not a big deal though, with auto negation set on, it sounds good and everything works fine, apart from the green 1000BASE-T light on my switch.

 

Curiously, 100BASE-T works fine when using the Shairport mode.  Perfect playback, 100BASE-T orange light on the switch. 

 

So here is a question - what does the new "auto negotiation" on / off setting actually do?  I see the table on SOtM's website, I am just trying to understand what this means in practice, and for sound quality.

[Tommd64]

Confused can you please show A printscreen from your eunhasu settings. The 3 serial green lights have to be on! Im curios about that ! 

[Confused]

3 minutes ago, Tommd64 said:

Confused can you please show A printscreen from your eunhasu settings. The 3 serial green lights have to be on! Im curios about that ! 

I could give you a screen shot with the auto negation set on, (blue, does work), or with auto negation off (green, does not work)

 

These are the settings that actually allow music to play:

 

 

[octaviars]

52 minutes ago, Confused said:

So in summary, 100BASE-T does not work with auto negotiation on, Roon and HQPlayer do not work with auto negotiation off.  So in my system at least, the 100BASE-T mode appears to be useless.  Maybe there is some other setting I need to tweak?  Not a big deal though, with auto negation set on, it sounds good and everything works fine, apart from the green 1000BASE-T light on my switch.

 

I run 100BASE-T with auto negotiation off and Roon without any problem. My Netgear GS108 shows with two LED what speed it runs 10/100/1000 (first, second, both) and the LED changes according to the settings i Eunhasu 100/1000.

I would asume with auto negotiation on it talks to the upstream switch and chooses the highest speed available.

 

"Autonegotiation is a signaling mechanism and procedure used by Ethernet over twisted pair by which two connected devices choose common transmission parameters, such as speed, duplex mode, and flow control. In this process, the connected devices first share their capabilities regarding these parameters and then choose the highest performance transmission mode they both support."

 

I did som more listening last night and I am really happy with how 4.6 sounds in my system ☺

[Confused]

22 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

I run 100BASE-T with auto negotiation off and Roon without any problem. My Netgear GS108 shows with two LED what speed it runs 10/100/1000 (first, second, both) and the LED changes according to the settings i Eunhasu 100/1000.

I would asume with auto negotiation on it talks to the upstream switch and chooses the highest speed available.

 

"Autonegotiation is a signaling mechanism and procedure used by Ethernet over twisted pair by which two connected devices choose common transmission parameters, such as speed, duplex mode, and flow control. In this process, the connected devices first share their capabilities regarding these parameters and then choose the highest performance transmission mode they both support."

 

I did som more listening last night and I am really happy with how 4.6 sounds in my system ☺

Interesting.  For me, with auto negotiation off, the Ethernet light changes with the 100/1000BASE-T settings, so that is exactly the same as your set up.  The difference is that with 100BASE-T I get the "an audio file is loading slowly" message and stuttering, you get music.  I wonder what makes the difference?  Maybe the fact you are running Roon ROCK on a NUC, whereas I am using a Windows 10 PC?  Just speculation, maybe it is something else?

[PnL]

I managed to install 4.60 and I also noticed that the Roon work with stuttering, if you choose auto or 100T in SOtM. The only setting in which the sound is well reproduced in the 100T mode is when I turn on the network card to which my SMS-200 is separately connected, the mode is 100T (not auto and not 1000T). The behavior is the same as it was at 4.59.

[Tommd64]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

I could give you a screen shot with the auto negation set on, (blue, does work), or with auto negation off (green, does not work)

 

These are the settings that actually allow music to play:

 

 

Confused in my opinion is the best to switch auto negotion off(in green position ) and use a static ip adres ( green as well). But that said; wenn it works it works.. 

[Confused]

41 minutes ago, Tommd64 said:

Confused in my opinion is the best to switch auto negotion off(in green position ) and use a static ip adres ( green as well). But that said; wenn it works it works.. 

I did wonder if using the static IP would make a difference, so I tried this earlier.  With static IP selected, auto negotiation  off (so everything green), I get the Roon "an audio file is loading slowly" message and stuttering with HQPlayer.  So more of a case of when it doesn't work, don't use it.  I would like to understand why it does not work for me, when it does for yourself and @octaviars.

 

One question for yourself, what are you using to run Roon?  I'm thinking this might make a difference, otherwise it might be variations in Router / switch combinations?

 

Plus, does anyone know what actually causes the Roon "an audio file is loading slowly" error to be invoked?  I would have thought that loading an audio file was a relatively trivial thing to do?

[octaviars]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

I did wonder if using the static IP would make a difference, so I tried this earlier.  With static IP selected, auto negotiation  off (so everything green), I get the Roon "an audio file is loading slowly" message and stuttering with HQPlayer.  So more of a case of when it doesn't work, don't use it. 

 

@Confused are you using up-sampling in Roon and HQ player when you try? I just tried runing Roon at 384kHz up-sampling to my DAC and that work fine my NUC with ROCK runs at 5.2x so no problem keeping up with that (100BASE-T and auto negotiation off).

[MGX-UK]

I'm using roon on Windows 10 via Cisco Catalyst 2960 Router at 100T with out any problems at all and with incredible sounds quality...... The Cisco Catalyst 2960 is a great alternative to the new Sotm Router at least 99% on sound quality...... At about £50 second hand from ebay..... New they where about £700......

[PnL]

I connect my SOTM directly to a computer (Windows 10) without routers and switches and I have the same problem with Roon - "an audio file is loading slowly" Only if I set the speed in the settings of the network card of PC to force 100T everything works smoothly. Or you have to go back to the 1000T in the settings of the cell.

[MGX-UK]

2 hours ago, PnL said:

I connect my SOTM directly to a computer (Windows 10) without routers and switches and I have the same problem with Roon - "an audio file is loading slowly" Only if I set the speed in the settings of the network card of PC to force 100T everything works smoothly. Or you have to go back to the 1000T in the settings of the cell.

These are my settings with 30 Meter of cat6 between windows 10 PC, Cisco Catalyst 2960 Router and SMS 200 ... Not one single hiccup 

[Confused]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

@Confused are you using up-sampling in Roon and HQ player when you try? I just tried runing Roon at 384kHz up-sampling to my DAC and that work fine my NUC with ROCK runs at 5.2x so no problem keeping up with that (100BASE-T and auto negotiation off).

I tried with no upsampling with 16/44 files and upsampling to my preferred 24/192.  Same result, “an audio file is loading slowly”.  I’m beginning to think it is down to router type / settings, just based on eliminating the other variables.  That said, I have no idea what specifically “an audio file is loading slowly” actually indicates, so left guessing.  As an example, iTunes / Shairport works fine with 100BASE-T, so something must be upsetting the RAAT protocol.

[Tommd64]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

I tried with no upsampling with 16/44 files and upsampling to my preferred 24/192.  Same result, “an audio file is loading slowly”.  I’m beginning to think it is down to router type / settings, just based on eliminating the other variables.  That said, I have no idea what specifically “an audio file is loading slowly” actually indicates, so left guessing.  As an example, iTunes / Shairport works fine with 100BASE-T, so something must be upsetting the RAAT protocol.

The only thing that can confuse the 100t setting ia a switch. One off my frieds had a aqvox switch who doesnt alloud you without problem to play with 100t. Try another switch or connect it directly to your router..

[Confused]

1 hour ago, Tommd64 said:

The only thing that can confuse the 100t setting ia a switch. One off my frieds had a aqvox switch who doesnt alloud you without problem to play with 100t. Try another switch or connect it directly to your router..

The 100BASE-T mode works fine with Shairport, the switch shows that it is running 100BASE-T, but it does not work with RAAT.  I suspect there may be other forces at play here.  

 

I do do have other switches and could of course connect direct, I’ll give it a try when I have some time.

[PnL]

The router and the switch can be excluded from consideration in the search for the cause of the problem - I use a direct connection. So it depends on the PC network card. I have 3 of them, if you count the built-in motherboard - all are Intel. I will try today to connect sMS-200 to the built-in motherboard - I don’t remember if I tried it before or not.

[Confused]

8 hours ago, PnL said:

The router and the switch can be excluded from consideration in the search for the cause of the problem - I use a direct connection. So it depends on the PC network card. I have 3 of them, if you count the built-in motherboard - all are Intel. I will try today to connect sMS-200 to the built-in motherboard - I don’t remember if I tried it before or not.

It would certainly be an interesting discovery if you found Roon / 100BASE-T works with some network cards but not others.  (I presume you are running Roon?). Keep us posted.

 

That said, it does not explain why I can run Shairport / 100BASE-T without any problems, with my switch indicating 100BASE-T, but Roon gives the “audio file loading slowly” message.  This kind of implies that Roon / 100BASE-T specifically is not compatible with some network cards?

[PnL]

Sorry for the delay, I had to reinstall 4.59 -> 4.60 to another memory card. Unfortunately, the same picture on the integrated network card is playback with cliffs and the message "an audio file is loading slowly" in the modes of sms-200: network speed = 100T, autonegotiation = of. Settings of the network card was tryed in network speed = "autonegotiations" and "100 full duplex". Both variants works with mistakes. But, if set modes of sms-200 autonegotiation = on, all works good in both modes of network card - "autonegotiations" (we have 1000-T) or "100 full duplex" (we have 100-T). In all cases Ethernet was in Static mode.

[Tommd64]

1 hour ago, PnL said:

Sorry for the delay, I had to reinstall 4.59 -> 4.60 to another memory card. Unfortunately, the same picture on the integrated network card is playback with cliffs and the message "an audio file is loading slowly" in the modes of sms-200: network speed = 100T, autonegotiation = of. Settings of the network card was tryed in network speed = "autonegotiations" and "100 full duplex". Both variants works with mistakes. But, if set modes of sms-200 autonegotiation = on, all works good in both modes of network card - "autonegotiations" (we have 1000-T) or "100 full duplex" (we have 100-T). In all cases Ethernet was in Static mode.

Perhaps your switch isn’t suitable for it. Try a direct connection. If the problem stays try another switch AQVox had some issues along with netgear..