SOtM smS-200 unveiled at Munich Hi-End

[Gerardo61]

7 hours ago, Stonemanty said:

I made sure my two cards, (both 32gb V30 one SP the other Kingston) were on v5.51  xx.212 and set to 144mhz (they weren’t matched previously) 

 

I swapped them back and forth several times (what a faff 🙄) each getting 5 listens to the same reference tracks

 

the SP card was slightly better! 😮

 

The difference is soundstage; it’s more constrained with the Kingston and it opens up with the SP - it’s not night and day, but definitely preferable with the SP

 

I’ll double check later, but if the findings remain the same I’ll be happy to try the more expensive Delkin card 

 

I can't understand how the SOtM 200 ultra neo could have a different SQ with different SD.

SD only needs to boot Operating System (Fedora)

Other curiosity is: how do you make the SOtM work at 144? What service do you use? Bit perfect or upsampling?

My device with upsamping DSD in HQPlayer Desktop and Ubuntu always crashes at 328 and I have manually reboot it. It work fine at 528.

Thanks in advance for reply

 

[Stonemanty]

Hi Gerardo, 

 

I have no idea! 😄

I tried a few SD cards before - nothing.  But I thought I should get a cheap (I wasn't prepared to more than a few quid on this) but equivalent card to hear if there was 'any' difference (MSMEMM my system, my ears, my music etc etc) 

 

Then I made sure everything was 'equal' between the two same spec cards i.e. same firmware (5.51), Kernel (xx.212), CPU speed (144), IPV6 Off etc etc (BTW that is how I got the 144 option in Settings)

 

Listened to one, the other etc. etc. 

I have the external clock, so getting the card back is a PITA as the clock's BNC connector is right above the slot, but, despite this - and me thinking 'Hmmm, not entirely sure I'm hearing anything here...'  I swapped them several times, 4 for each over almost two hours 

 

I have confirmation bias.  So I know that I have to repeat experiments several times to get past that effect.  But there it was; the SP card has a better soundstage 😮  I have no idea why - but that's what I hear

 

I have some Focal Diablo Utopia speakers that are scalpel-like on detail, 1mm of movement on their stands affects the soundstage - I heard a different soundstage 

 

I'm going to give it another good listen now - if it's still there - Great!  I'll be buying the Delkin card, if it isn't, I will reply and confess I was swept up by the hysteria! 😁

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

[Stonemanty]

Oh, I've got Roon which is doing upsampling,  Tidal Hi Res and local SSD in Nucleus.  I have fibre into the SOtM switch, the SMS200 UN goes into the SOtM USB, all three timed by the external SOtM clock, all four with separate SPS 500s  They feed into Lyngdorf 3400/2200 active system with the Focals and some Lyngdorf W210 bass speakers and custom 4x10 (so 6x 10" drivers per channel)  

 

Sounds good, very revealing 😀

[Gerardo61]

28 minutes ago, Stonemanty said:

Hi Gerardo, 

 

I have no idea! 😄

I tried a few SD cards before - nothing.  But I thought I should get a cheap (I wasn't prepared to more than a few quid on this) but equivalent card to hear if there was 'any' difference (MSMEMM my system, my ears, my music etc etc) 

 

Then I made sure everything was 'equal' between the two same spec cards i.e. same firmware (5.51), Kernel (xx.212), CPU speed (144), IPV6 Off etc etc (BTW that is how I got the 144 option in Settings)

 

Listened to one, the other etc. etc. 

I have the external clock, so getting the card back is a PITA as the clock's BNC connector is right above the slot, but, despite this - and me thinking 'Hmmm, not entirely sure I'm hearing anything here...'  I swapped them several times, 4 for each over almost two hours 

 

I have confirmation bias.  So I know that I have to repeat experiments several times to get past that effect.  But there it was; the SP card has a better soundstage 😮  I have no idea why - but that's what I hear

 

I have some Focal Diablo Utopia speakers that are scalpel-like on detail, 1mm of movement on their stands affects the soundstage - I heard a different soundstage 

 

I'm going to give it another good listen now - if it's still there - Great!  I'll be buying the Delkin card, if it isn't, I will reply and confess I was swept up by the hysteria! 😁

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Stonemanty said:

Oh, I've got Roon which is doing upsampling,  Tidal Hi Res and local SSD in Nucleus.  I have fibre into the SOtM switch, the SMS200 UN goes into the SOtM USB, all three timed by the external SOtM clock, all four with separate SPS 500s  They feed into Lyngdorf 3400/2200 active system with the Focals and some Lyngdorf W210 bass speakers and custom 4x10 (so 6x 10" drivers per channel)  

 

Sounds good, very revealing 😀

 

Hi Andy,

thanks a lot for info.

Who knows? 🤔

Enjoy the music

Regards

Gerardo

[Stonemanty]

Confirmed!  The SP card has a better, more open soundstage than the Kingston card

 

Amazing! 

[Stonemanty]

Credit to you guys who discovered this (frankly, rather weird 😀) phenomenon 

[ClothEars]

15 hours ago, Stonemanty said:

Credit to you guys who discovered this (frankly, rather weird 😀) phenomenon 

Looking at YouTube videos of people breaking down a micro SD card you can see a processor and several miniscule surface mount capacitors.  

In my experience whenever capacitors are present they have an affect on the sound and I believe each company also has its' own proprietry processor.  That MAY be an explanation as to why they sound different.

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

Post by Mitch751 let me realise that Delkin has a life time warranty policy.  Wrote to Delkin and they were sending me one to replace but got lost by UPS. The impression I have from the current Delkin one I have which is broken, even though I still was able to burn the OS of Sotm onto it, sound quality wise, the string section of orchestra works has some extra glare which I believe I did not hear before it was broken.  Anxious to wait for the new Delkin come in to verify it.  I noticed that other UHS-II v90 I have, ADATA, is completely out of stock.  

[flkin]

I would be good if those that have many micro cards to test them for speed and see if faster equates to better sounding. Or not. 

 

The recently discussed SP v30 card is a pretty fast card does it sound good because of this? And if the Delkin is better, would it be due to the v90 speed rating?

[Stonemanty]

One of the OPs on this topic has already given a comparison of their cards - specifically, speed doesn’t seem to be the main driver

 

I don’t think anyone knows what/why or if there’s any correlation.  In fact there’s fully understandable scepticism about this, since some say the card doesn’t do anything once the 200 has booted 

 

in short, who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I bought my SP card (which has better soundstage (MSMEMM) than my similarly spec’d Kingston) for £7/€8/$10 delivered 

 

I enjoyed the tweaking experimentation and for that money, to get any positive result at all is an astonishing bargain 😀

[flkin]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:50 PM, Stonemanty said:

One of the OPs on this topic has already given a comparison of their cards - specifically, speed doesn’t seem to be the main driver...

 

I'm not sure if we should dismiss card speed so quickly as a contributing factor for good sound. Over the past few weeks since cards were discussed here, the following was said about speed. 

 

On 3/13/2024 at 3:36 AM, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

..

I really hate to say this but the two I found very good are Delkin UHS-II v90 and ADATA UHS-II V90...

 

Lexar UHS-II v60 and Samsun UHS-I v30 are in another camp.  Both of them are adequate and satisfying, but not in the same leagues as the earlier two...

 

SanDisk Ultra v30 sounds harsh...  

 

 

One data point that the v90 cards sound better.

 

On 3/13/2024 at 11:53 AM, ClothEars said:

For me the Silicon Power Gaming card is the best.  Also I found speed had nothing to do with subjective performance - faster cards did not outperform their slower brethren. 

 

I'd like to give the Delkin UHS-II v90 and ADATA UHS-II V90 cards a go however they are quite expensive compared to the cards in the photo.  I'd better start saving!!

 

A thumbs up for the SP v30 Gaming card but it was not compared with the v90 cards yet.

 

On 3/17/2024 at 11:54 AM, mitch751 said:

.. Since I needed few new cards for backup why not tried two Game card as above suggested (SP Gaming 64GB and 128GB) ..... in turn on made a surprise..

 

Tempted to try Delkin Power UHS-II microSD (a V90 card) , received it and  Imust said ... it is even better .... 

 

Apart from the SP Gaming v30 card, it seems the v90 cards are doing well from recent observations here and might even be better.

 

Looking forward to more data points from users...! Unfortunately I won't be testing cards anytime soon. My sMS-200neo is out of action due to my tx-USBUltra being out on loan which provided the clocking needed for the sMS-200neo to work. Interesting to follow this and see what conclusions can be made.

[Stonemanty]

That’s interesting, I have the USB and the external clock - the USB doesn’t affect the working of the ‘200 
 

 

 

[roberto2]

Where do you purchase these SP Gaming cards? I can't find them even on their website...!

 

[Stonemanty]

I couldn’t find one in GB, maybe it’s a US only branding? 
 

 

[flkin]

21 hours ago, Stonemanty said:

That’s interesting, I have the USB and the external clock - the USB doesn’t affect the working of the ‘200 ..

 

Looks like you're a real SOtM fan! 

 

I'm an early adopter of SOtM going back to around 2017 - during the days when some of us were grouping the 'trifecta' set of a re-clocked switch, tx-USBUltra and sMS-200. At that time, most of us didn't know a switch could affect the sound in the way it does. It was during this time and our experiments that we discovered the contribution of a switch. SOtM didn't sell audiophile switches yet but offered a modded D-Link DGS105 with switching regulators swapped out for linear ones and added an external clocking point. My sMS-200 didn't have the sCLK-Ex board inside and so it relied on its own clocks. And of course 😄, I had it modded to improve the sound by adding 2 external clock points. This process removed its own clocks and would thereafter only work with external clock signals. The clocking signal for both the D-Link and the sMS-200 came from the tx-USBUltra.

 

I pushed the envelop of sound further by adding an EtherRegen between the sMS-200 and my DAC and a Cypershaft OP-14 reference clock to the tx-USBUltra.

 

All history now having moved on to more extreme clocking solutions and the only SOtM equipment in my system today is the dCBL-CAT7 + iSO-CAT6 + dCBL-CAT7 which still does its job well. Other SOtM gathering dust or out on long term loan to friends.

 

 

And it's the reason why I can't help with the recent micro card tests, I don't have the 24/25MHz clock signals required for my sMS-200 to work. Tested a LOT during my time with the trifecta but with older cards available at that time and older software. 

[flkin]

22 hours ago, roberto2 said:

Where do you purchase these SP Gaming cards? I can't find them even on their website...!

 

 

Pretty common in Asia. eg.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i4911766193-s20690778808.html

 

Try Google search for "Silicon Power microSD Card Gaming" rather than SP Gaming.

[Stonemanty]

Very cool indeed!  You’re a serious tweaker/modder - I read your system notes 😎👍
 

I bought my first SOtM in 2019, and quickly slid down the adding stuff slope 😀

 

I’ve also got their network switch with its own SPS-500 underneath those shown above

 

I recently tried the fibre link from an adapter (which was previously used just as a 1m fibre loop for galvanic isolation.  Upstream from that is a Paul Pang modded switch to my ISP hub and Roon Nucleus - all that, and separately the main rig, all have dedicated mains right back to the electricity meter (fully screened of course 🤓) 

 

I’ve found the fibre to be slightly more focussed for the centre image (vs Cat7) but I need to go some more comparative listening 

 

all good fun 

 

 

[flkin]

Yeah. Good music is the target and the journey getting there is part of the fun! 😄

 

My current view is that anything upstream of the streamer, including switches, cables and even fiber connections is not as essential as I once thought.
 

This is because of the Euphony playback software I’m using now has a function that buffers entire tracks (even albums) into RAM prior to playback. So playback occurs using bit perfect data from RAM without the need to access the network. This means that data movement through the network before the streamer mostly won’t affect the sound. 
 

I tested this idea out by disconnecting the LAN cable from my streamer during playback and there was little change in the sound quality I heard. So these days I’m not that concerned with tweaks on the network side anymore. 

[Stonemanty]

OMG! 
 

just looking at Euphony 

 

Ive got a pair of audio PCs gathering dust from old JPlay/AO/Fidelizer rig - 7x LPS between them 

 

not sure I have enough hair left to resurrect them 😀

[flkin]

Ah, that’s where my hair went! 😆

[flkin]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:49 PM, flkin said:

…

I pushed the envelop of sound further by adding an EtherRegen between the sMS-200 and my DAC and a Cypershaft OP-14 reference clock to the tx-USBUltra.

…

Oops, meant to say I added an IsoRegen between the sMS-200 and the txUSBUltra. What I typed above is nonsense. 
 

So the optimal path was:

 

Streamer - LAN - sMS200 - IsoRegen - txUSBUltra -  DAC

[ClothEars]

I finally got a Delkin 64Gb card to try and hey presto - I find it is slightly superior to the SP Gaming card.

The Delkin has a very clean liquid presentation allowing lots of micro details to come through. Complex mixes with lots of instruments involved are more separated and delineated allowing a more intimate involvement in the track. The sound stage is not quite as wide as the SP Gaming card however this is only a minor difference.  What becomes obvious is that the general presentation of the SP Gaming card seems a little bit coarse compared to the Delkin which is very smooth and controlled.

 

So the Delkin is my new reference however it cost me AUS$188 compared to the SP Gaming card which come in at AUS$20 so the SP Gaming is the best value for money by far.  Whether the extra cost for the Delkin is warranted is up to the individual.

[Oepsie]

Tonight I had a couple of friends over to double check my findings with another microSD card for the sms-200. Based on coincidences, I've been running my setup with a sandisk card so far. So wanted to try out for myself the aforementioned Verbatim Pro card (64 gb version) to see what all the fuss is about; to see if I could hear any differences 😬

 

An initial disclaimer about my experiments: I've played around with the cpu latency and the cpu throttling and I prefer the latency parameter turned off and no throttling; to my ears, these parameters 'thins' out the midrange and make the sound a bit brighter than the standard non-throttled settings. The effects are there with both SD cards but more noticeable with the sandisk card as (maybe because it is brighter to begin with, see below?).

 

To my concern, I'm actually able to hear a difference between the sandisk and verbatim cards.. In direct comparison, the sandisk sounds a bit more open and bright, with a greater focus on instrument decay and a more balanced presentation. Switching to the verbatim card, the midrange becomes more 'full' with more details but the overall balance is a bit darker and instrument decay is not even across the frequency range.

 

So my conclusion is that the sandisk card matches my system better, giving a more natural, homogenic character across the frequency range.

 

The verbatim card gives a bit more boom to the base as well but generally has a very nice, detailed midrange. With some music, the sandisk becomes a bit bright and gives a slight metallic character. Opposite, with the verbatim card certain music looses a bit of energy, especially with rock music (the black keys, radiohead, audioslave, rage against the machine), noticeable in drums and electric guitars which sound a bit more muffled.

 

Having owned the sms-200 with a Paul Hynes sr4t LPS for 3-4 years, a lot of changes has been made to my system with the sandisk card, so home court advantage is definitely there as the system has been tuned with cables and other components around the sandisk card signature.. 😁

 

A final remark is that my system in general is tuned towards a warmer character, making compromises in order to make rock music listenable. Maybe that is the reason why I find the verbatim a bit too dark in my system..?

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

16 hours ago, ClothEars said:

I finally got a Delkin 64Gb card to try and hey presto - I find it is slightly superior to the SP Gaming card.

The Delkin has a very clean liquid presentation allowing lots of micro details to come through. Complex mixes with lots of instruments involved are more separated and delineated allowing a more intimate involvement in the track. The sound stage is not quite as wide as the SP Gaming card however this is only a minor difference.  What becomes obvious is that the general presentation of the SP Gaming card seems a little bit coarse compared to the Delkin which is very smooth and controlled.

 

So the Delkin is my new reference however it cost me AUS$188 compared to the SP Gaming card which come in at AUS$20 so the SP Gaming is the best value for money by far.  Whether the extra cost for the Delkin is warranted is up to the individual.

It is indeed my impression as well that SP Gaming wins on the sound stage over Delkin.  Glad you confirmed my observation.  The only reason that I have been quiet on the comparison between the two is that my road to get this exp done has been way more complicated than I expected.  As I mentioned that the Delkin card I bought last year was broken - the higher level of formatting by MacBook indicated certain blocks were not functioning properly.  I wrote to Delkin after seeing their lifetime warranty.  They sent me the replacement the second day by UPS after I shared the image of the broken card as well as the original purchase record.  But it was stucked in the local distribution center for two weeks before reaching to me.  Two days after I put it on, there was a power outage.  The Sonnet Pasithea R2R DAC normally takes close to two weeks to reach its full sound quality so I am still not there yet.  But with new card being installed on sms 200, the glare on the tremble reported earlier is definitely gone.  So the few broken blocks in micro SD does impact on SQ.  I wanted to add that the Delkin’s customer service is indeed first rate.