Audible difference between analog interconnects

[Jud]

Thanks.

I'll wait then.

 

R

 

Ha! Thanks for the smile.

[mansr]

Do you think there could be a relation between very high bandwidth amplifier and detecting the effect of IC capacitance?

 

Doubtful. The IC capacitance (and inductance) will only affect very high frequencies (several MHz) where there simply isn't any signal content no matter what the amp can do.

[Jud]

Doubtful. The IC capacitance (and inductance) will only affect very high frequencies (several MHz) where there simply isn't any signal content no matter what the amp can do.

 

Are there sources of interference and noise in those regions? What about interconnects and circuitry carrying DSD (64, 128, 256...)? Any implications for combination Class D amps/DACs?

[mkrzych]

Doubtful. The IC capacitance (and inductance) will only affect very high frequencies (several MHz) where there simply isn't any signal content no matter what the amp can do.

 

...and are significant only for the long runs - that's why microphone pro grade cables have very small capacitance.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Doubtful. The IC capacitance (and inductance) will only affect very high frequencies (several MHz) where there simply isn't any signal content no matter what the amp can do.

 

That was not my experience with some DIY Belden - 2 conductor plus shield unbalanced RCA - wires I fabricated in quasi balanced configuration. This wire was supposedly recommended by recording engineer Kavi Alexander. We called it the Kavi Cable.

 

I compared 2 meters vs. 10 meters. The longer length absolutely killed the high frequencies. The two meter sounded very good, better than other cables I had at hand. I wired my whole system with it at that time, years ago. Since then, I have shifted to using balanced XLRs exclusively with very low capacitance, not that Belden with higher capacitance, with very good results compared to much more expensive "audiophile" XLRs at much shorter lengths.

[mansr]

That was not my experience with some DIY Belden - 2 conductor plus shield unbalanced RCA - wires I fabricated in quasi balanced configuration. This wire was supposedly recommended by recording engineer Kavi Alexander. We called it the Kavi Cable.

 

I compared 2 meters vs. 10 meters. The longer length absolutely killed the high frequencies. The two meter sounded very good, better than other cables I had at hand. I wired my whole system with it at that time, years ago. Since then, I have shifted to using balanced XLRs exclusively with very low capacitance, not that Belden with higher capacitance, with very good results compared to much more expensive "audiophile" XLRs at much shorter lengths.

 

Do you recall the exact Belden cable you used?

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Do you recall the exact Belden cable you used?

 

No, sorry. It was quite some time ago.

[gmgraves]

That was not my experience with some DIY Belden - 2 conductor plus shield unbalanced RCA - wires I fabricated in quasi balanced configuration. This wire was supposedly recommended by recording engineer Kavi Alexander. We called it the Kavi Cable.

 

I compared 2 meters vs. 10 meters. The longer length absolutely killed the high frequencies. The two meter sounded very good, better than other cables I had at hand. I wired my whole system with it at that time, years ago. Since then, I have shifted to using balanced XLRs exclusively with very low capacitance, not that Belden with higher capacitance, with very good results compared to much more expensive "audiophile" XLRs at much shorter lengths.

 

I don't know what you heard, but I have never encountered any coaxial cable where 30 ft would result in any more than a 1-2 dB attenuation at 20 KHz (and far less than that at lower frequencies) and I defy any male human on the high side of 20 years to hear that!

[sandyk]

I don't know what you heard, but I have never encountered any coaxial cable where 30 ft would result in any more than a 1-2 dB attenuation at 20 KHz (and far less than that at lower frequencies) and I defy any male human on the high side of 20 years to hear that!

 

Here we go again! It's not just about the attenuation in the up to 20kHz region.

There is life past 20kHz . We are sensitive to the rise time of a waveform. Good quality modern speakers also have a usable frequency response without large peaks or dips in their response, to around 40kHz.

When driving much longer than normal lengths of coax , provided that the preamp etc. has a suitably low output impedance and sufficient gain, you will get improved audible results by terminating the coax correctly at the distant end and drive it from a 75 ohm output impedance if it's a 75 ohm coax.

 

 

There's life above 20 kilohertz! A survey of musical instrument spectra to 102.4 kHz

[esldude]

Here we go again! It's not just about the attenuation in the up to 20kHz region.

There is life past 20kHz . We are sensitive to the rise time of a waveform. Good quality modern speakers also have a usable frequency response without large peaks or dips in their response, to around 40kHz.

When driving much longer than normal lengths of coax , provided that the preamp etc. has a suitably low output impedance and sufficient gain, you will get improved audible results by terminating the coax correctly at the distant end and drive it from a 75 ohm output impedance if it's a 75 ohm coax.

 

 

There's life above 20 kilohertz! A survey of musical instrument spectra to 102.4 kHz

 

Here we go again alright. Come on Alex. Rarely, I mean rarely is the steepest risetime from high frequencies. Rise time is a result of frequency and level. While super loud high frequencies would have great risetime, almost always those ultrasonics are at such low level the risetime is trivial and not going to make any significant difference in waveform steepness.

[sandyk]

Dennis

We will never agree on this issue, as you also believe that hi res in general, and DSD is a waste of time. Recent Meridian research does not agree with you either. Did you have a good look at the link that I have once more provided ? Chop off everything above 22kHz and it will sound quite different.

Even a loud sneeze will sound very different if you bandwidth limit it. The noise of Air Conditioning sounds very different if you bandwidth limit it too.It becomes more of a dull roar to my ears.

My own sine wave hearing limits are now well below 8kHz due to hearing damage courtesy of Telstra, but I can still hear the differences between the various formats, even between well recorded 24/96 and 24/192 if my BP isn't too high. No presently accepted theory can explain that.

We still have a lot to learn about human hearing capabilities.

[esldude]

I have seen your link yes. Have chopped off everything above 22 kHz and heard no difference on gear that has response well above that. One of the reasons hirez isn't valued by me.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[PopPop]

The first section of this weeks Radio Lab podcast has a very interesting story about the sound your brain creates when your ears stop working.

 

http://www.radiolab.org/story/91629-pop-music/

[Sal1950]

I wonder what sound your ears create when your brain stops working. LOL

[PopPop]

I figured you could report on that. [emoji6]

 

I'm guessing it may sound like the loping croak of a 45d V twin.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I don't know what you heard, but I have never encountered any coaxial cable where 30 ft would result in any more than a 1-2 dB attenuation at 20 KHz (and far less than that at lower frequencies) and I defy any male human on the high side of 20 years to hear that!

 

Well, I heard what I heard. It was way beyond quite obvious. I made no measurements, but if you have some, I am sure we would all like to see them. But, even a 1-2dB droop is not something I would want to introduce into my system in that fixed, uncontrollable way. I would not buy an amp, line stage or DAC that did that.

 

I am quite certain that what I heard was worse than that, but you will just have to take my word for it. I had been hoping to move a phono stage and turntable to a location closer to my seat and further from my Levinson 380S line stage at the time. Hence, my experiment. The phono stage was an Audio Research vacuum tube unit, aha, and its tolerance for the electrical loading of the interconnect might possibly have played a significant role in my results. I believe that, in general, vacuum tube gear is more susceptible to cable differences than solid state.

 

I do not recall the specs of the Belden cable I was experimenting with. If memory serves, the capacitance was close to 100 pf per foot, which is not off the charts for many common interconnects. That was part of my concern, though, and why I tried the long, 10 meter run experiment.

 

I was later thinking about a repeat of the experiment with a balanced output, solid state phono stage and low capacitance XLR's. I expected the result might have been quite different. But, my interest in vinyl had by that time become non-existent. It still is.

 

I now exclusively use balanced XLR cables from bettercables.com throughout my system, including 10meter runs to my surround channel amps. They were among the lowest capacitance interconnects I could find several years ago. With all solid state equipment and using a CD player/DAC, they at 2meters or even 10meters also sounded slightly but somewhat better to me than 2meters of top of the line Cardas XLRs I had been using. The Cardas was way, way more expensive. I did not hear any significant difference between 10 and 2 meters with the bettercables interconnects, confirming your theory.

 

So, theory is nice. But, in reality, it all depends. Best to verify as best you can how it sounds to you in your own system with your equipment.