Audible difference between analog interconnects

[Paul R]

Deleted.

[plissken]

What are the other two 3:1 then?

 

NXT was another. Let me look at the certification sheet for the 3rd.

[Sal1950]

Wasted enough time dealing with stupidity. LOL Where did I mention price vs. performance? Or price at all??? You are so caught up in blind worship of numbers, that you cannot even understand that music is something to listen to... Not measure... smh...

If you are foolish enough not to look at the science behind cable design and realize the cable marketeers are selling the naive a bill of goods, please have at it. Go to Nordost and get yourself a set of $40,000 speaker cables. It's good for the economy, I'm personally ROTFLMAO

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Jud]

Look at the FFT on page 36 of the owners manual.

 

http://www.musicdirect.com/documents/pdf/abmdac1.pdf

 

Look at the previous page where they synthetically added over 2000 nano seconds of jitter. Compared output with and without that jitter. No change.

 

The 1000 ft of cable added 4 nanoseconds RMS of jitter with 8 nanoseconds of peak jitter.

 

Very nice. Why add the async USB input, then? Perhaps just to tick that box if the market demands it?

[BobSherman]

If you are foolish enough not to look at the science behind cable design and realize the cable marketeers are selling the naive a bill of goods, please have at it. Go to Nordost and get yourself a set of $40,000 speaker cables. It's good for the economy, I'm personally ROTFLMAO

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

Did you bother reading anything I had posted? I think it is pretty crazy spending allot on cables. People have to set a reasonable budget and then LISTEN to cables in their system. System synergy matters, I currently use some copper between my DAC and my Lightspeed preamp and silver to my amps. As I said not one person in the thread bothered to mention connectors, cable material or construction. Good sounding cables do not have to cost allot, but to have an intelligent conversation you should at least understand what properties make up a good cable.

[beautox]

Seems to me that trying to find out what a cable sounds like by measuring it is like trying to find how a car drives by looking at it's 0..60 time, it's torque and HP, etc etc. I distrust people who claim that they know all about the science behind cables (what, you have degrees in metallurgy, physics and electronics?), especially when they proceed to make statements that a scientist never would..

 

The true scientists and engineers I know who are interested in audio all realize that there is a lot that they don't know.

 

Heh, cable threads are all like this, but hey, sometimes you just feel like a good food fight

[Allan F]

I'm personally ROTFLMAO.

Do you really think that there is a single person on the face of this earth who actually gives a rat's ass?

 

[Jud]

In my opinion and experience, short term memory is not what it takes to hear subtle differences between things.

 

Short term memory lasts just a few seconds, like 5 or at the most 10.

 

Short term memory is indeed a key, and in much the way you're saying.

 

And though I used the term "short term memory" myself, it was to play off something plissken wrote. The correct term is "sensory memory," and when involving hearing specifically, "echoic memory." Work regarding how long it lasts ranges from a couple of seconds to 20 or so, with 4-6 seconds being the "fat part of the curve," so to speak, and estimates in the 10-20 second range being definite outliers. So not long at all.

 

My experience suggest to me that it's long term memory that is important. For me to hear subtle differences, I need to be very familiar with the music and system - ie spend many many hours listening to the same tracks again and again, so they are burned deeply into long term memory.

 

 

I think you're on the right track there regarding intense familiarity, but I don't think the concept you're looking for is long term memory.

[Jud]

If you are foolish enough not to look at the science behind cable design and realize the cable marketeers are selling the naive a bill of goods, please have at it. Go to Nordost and get yourself a set of $40,000 speaker cables. It's good for the economy, I'm personally ROTFLMAO

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

I buy cables so they fit into that 3-D Jackson Pollock piece behind my equipment that you saw pictures of.

[plissken]

Very nice. Why add the async USB input, then? Perhaps just to tick that box if the market demands it?

 

Why add a panoramic roof, 11 speakers, leather trim, heated seats etc... to a car?

 

How many DAC's are sold now days w/o a USB port? How many DAC manufactures are in business that offer zero USB enabled DAC's.

[Paul R]

Two people each make a very good DAC. This, according to you, makes one of them an engineer, the other a marketeer.

 

No, they are both very good DACs and both good engineers too. One is just very interested in marketing, while the other sells everything he builds. I will leave to to you to figure out which is which.

 

BTW: I paid out hard earned money for DACs from both of them, and will be buying another in the not too distant future. Obviously, I like their work.

 

You really seem to think you know more than everyone else about what being an engineer is. Perhaps you do. What did you design and produce in the last 12 months?

[Paul R]

seems to me that trying to find out what a cable sounds like by measuring it is like trying to find how a car drives by looking at it's 0..60 time, it's torque and hp, etc etc. I distrust people who claim that they know all about the science behind cables (what, you have degrees in metallurgy, physics and electronics?), especially when they proceed to make statements that a scientist never would..

 

The true scientists and engineers i know who are interested in audio all realize that there is a lot that they don't know.

 

Heh, cable threads are all like this, but hey, sometimes you just feel like a good food fight

 

 

lol! +1!

[Jud]

Why add a panoramic roof, 11 speakers, leather trim, heated seats etc... to a car?

 

How many DAC's are sold now days w/o a USB port? How many DAC manufactures are in business that offer zero USB enabled DAC's.

 

The DAC1 had a perfectly usable USB port, that used ASRC to minimize jitter in the way you and esldude have described. Why add the extra (and apparently unnecessary for jitter minimization) cost to the DAC2 of making that port async USB input as well?

[PopPop]

You will find the exact same fight on a knitting forum over which is better, wooden or metal knitting needles.

[Jud]

You will find the exact same fight on a knitting forum over which is better, wooden or metal knitting needles.

 

We ought to get the forums together so the cable people can stab each other with knitting needles and the knitting people can hogtie each other with cables.

 

***

 

Yes, I've been watching too much political reporting.

[Sal1950]

i buy cables so they fit into that 3-d jackson pollock piece behind my equipment that you saw pictures of.

 

 

lol

[plissken]

The DAC1 had a perfectly usable USB port, that used ASRC to minimize jitter in the way you and esldude have described. Why add the extra (and apparently unnecessary for jitter minimization) cost to the DAC2 of making that port async USB input as well?

 

Ask Benchmark. May be they have designs in house that require minimal porting to add an Async USB port and with already worked out Jitter reduction mechanisms in place reinvent the wheel.

 

Why does TC Technologies have their own JetPLL?

[plissken]

You will find the exact same fight on a knitting forum over which is better, wooden or metal knitting needles.

 

Depends. Is someone claiming a blanket knitted with wooden needles is some how going to keep you warmer than if knitted with metal?

[PopPop]

Wait, whaaaaaaat?

[Sal1950]

Do you really think that there is a single person on the face of this earth who actually gives a rat's ass?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24759[/ATTACH]

 

 

That really hurts me feelings, you mean NO ONE cares. Boo Hoo

[plissken]

You will find the exact same fight on a knitting forum over which is better, wooden or metal knitting needles.

 

Depends. Is someone claiming a blanket knitted with wooden needles is some how going to keep you warmer than if knitted with metal?

 

Wait, whaaaaaaat?

 

Simply my guess as to the logic a knitting - audiophile would apply to their choice of knitting instrument :-)

[esldude]

Very nice. Why add the async USB input, then? Perhaps just to tick that box if the market demands it?

 

USB was not on the original DAC1. With so many using USB of course it is added. Not just for marketing, but to satisfy the needs of customers who are often sourcing via USB. Why asynch? Why not? If asynch USB is technically better, and it is then it only fits Benchmark's practice of having well construction gear based upon good principles. They do specify that all inputs, including USB go through their Ultralock2 circuit. Stereophile's measurements of jitter via USB on the DAC2 show a superb result.

[esldude]

Why does TC Technologies have their own JetPLL?

 

So that Weiss can use it in their gear.

[semente]

We ought to get the forums together so the cable people can stab each other with knitting needles and the knitting people can hogtie each other with cables.

 

***

 

Yes, I've been watching too much political reporting.

 

Please tell me that Tramp is not going to win.

 

R

[Jud]

Ask Benchmark. May be they have designs in house that require minimal porting to add an Async USB port and with already worked out Jitter reduction mechanisms in place reinvent the wheel.

 

Why does TC Technologies have their own JetPLL?

 

USB was not on the original DAC1. With so many using USB of course it is added. Not just for marketing, but to satisfy the needs of customers who are often sourcing via USB. Why asynch? Why not? If asynch USB is technically better, and it is then it only fits Benchmark's practice of having well construction gear based upon good principles. They do specify that all inputs, including USB go through their Ultralock2 circuit. Stereophile's measurements of jitter via USB on the DAC2 show a superb result.

 

I find interesting these responses to my suggestion that perhaps Benchmark has async USB input on the DAC2 to check a marketing box.

 

Not that it isn't possible Benchmark added async USB for the reasons suggested by plissken or esldude. I don't know the answer.

 

But we do have a very plain illustration of Benchmark adding a capability to its DAC simply to check a marketing box with DSD, which you can read John Siau being very critical of repeatedly. Yet plissken and Dennis (esldude) felt they ought to raise technical (thus presumably more praiseworthy) reasons other than marketing for the DAC2's use of async USB input on top of its "perfect" jitter rejection through ASRC. While I don't have ESP and thus don't know plissken's and Dennis's reasons any more than I know for sure the reason Benchmark offers async USB input, I wonder if Benchmark marketing itself in ways that objectivists would likely favor could be causing people who feel they're on the objectivist "side" to root for and defend Benchmark.

 

I don't see a little mild exaggeration and cool sounding names ("perfect" jitter rejection, "UltraLock2" for ASRC) as a bad thing, particularly in service of a product that by all accounts is excellent. High end audio equipment isn't a necessity of life (however much we might feel differently when we're enjoying it); without effective marketing, there wouldn't be an industry on which to spend our disposable income. So I'm not trying to be pejorative when I wonder whether Benchmark is doing certain things for technical or marketing purposes. What I do want to do is point out that successful marketers are well aware of our predispositions, "subjectivists" and "objectivists" alike.