Equipment isolation and vibration damping.

[theophile]

I really like those Ingress bowls. They are exactly what I am looking for to replace the ceramic incense burners(which seem to work quite well for the moment). I like the fact that the incense burners hold my GT 2000 aloft from the granite block. It allows me to move the tuning weight around beneath the turntable. When I get the Ingress bowls, and I will be getting them, I'm going to get a local machinist to lathe three supporting columns to hold the three Ingress bowls. I would expect, given the wonderful results I am getting with the stop-gap ceramic incense burners to be multiplied when I put the Ingress bowls into this set-up. As I stated at AudioKarma, the set-up I have at the moment(which is exactly as you see it in those photos) works extremely well but it still remains a work in progress.

 

Because unlike the inner tube method the ring of Clearaudio Magix is comprised of 21 discrete elements, one has to strictly ensure that the load seen by each of the 21 Magix is shared evenly. Hence with this type of implementation the stress I've placed upon getting the Center Of Gravity correctly positioned. Doing that and tuning the load utterly remain the key to getting the results I have obtained. I surmise that if I could get a granite block cut to be circular, that would be even more advantageous. The local fellows who supplied and cut the granite for me can't cut circles. I should canvas the other stonemasons in my region to see if there are any who can.

 

As enthused as I am by the results I have obtained so far, I suspect that I've possibly only gotten a hint of what my method will yield down the track. That's a nice thing to hold onto.

[Foggie]

FWIW - being my setup consists of inner-tube>bowls/bearing, I recently was looking at building some valve extenders so one could inflate/adjust without taking the components off etc..I searched the web for quite awhile but finally came across this.

I ordered one and hopefully it will work - plan on routing it so it will hang just outside of my platforms and would then be able to add air when needed.

[Foggie]

FWIW - being my setup consists of inner-tube>bowls/bearing, I recently was looking at building some valve extenders so one could inflate/adjust without taking the components off etc..I searched the web for quite awhile but finally came across this.

I ordered one and hopefully it will work - plan on routing it so it will hang just outside of my platforms and would then be able to add air when needed.

 

These appear to work perfectly with standard inner tube valves (schrader)! The unit is about 1ft long. I ordered two more, will post pics later.

[4est]

I am sure they could cut it into an octagon which would likely be close enough for this purpose.

I really like those Ingress bowls. They are exactly what I am looking for to replace the ceramic incense burners(which seem to work quite well for the moment). I like the fact that the incense burners hold my GT 2000 aloft from the granite block. It allows me to move the tuning weight around beneath the turntable. When I get the Ingress bowls, and I will be getting them, I'm going to get a local machinist to lathe three supporting columns to hold the three Ingress bowls. I would expect, given the wonderful results I am getting with the stop-gap ceramic incense burners to be multiplied when I put the Ingress bowls into this set-up. As I stated at AudioKarma, the set-up I have at the moment(which is exactly as you see it in those photos) works extremely well but it still remains a work in progress.

 

Because unlike the inner tube method the ring of Clearaudio Magix is comprised of 21 discrete elements, one has to strictly ensure that the load seen by each of the 21 Magix is shared evenly. Hence with this type of implementation the stress I've placed upon getting the Center Of Gravity correctly positioned. Doing that and tuning the load utterly remain the key to getting the results I have obtained. I surmise that if I could get a granite block cut to be circular, that would be even more advantageous. The local fellows who supplied and cut the granite for me can't cut circles. I should canvas the other stonemasons in my region to see if there are any who can.

 

As enthused as I am by the results I have obtained so far, I suspect that I've possibly only gotten a hint of what my method will yield down the track. That's a nice thing to hold onto.

[YashN]

These look great, found them on WBF:

 

 

 

These effectively isolate components in a magnetically levitated constrained layer. 3 can support components between 6 and 60# and are adjustable in approximately 1.5# increments. They promote "naturalness" over enhancement, and will not rob systems of bass or mid-bass, or thin out the sound.

 

I like the idea.

[peterpills]

As I understand it, Stillpoints are ball-bearing housings (Ballraces) that dissipate energy via balls to their tunnel.

So why not use a standard ballrace and save $$?

Q) But how to couple gear to the device?

A) with a ballbearing centred in the ballrace.

[kennyb123]

As I understand it, Stillpoints are ball-bearing housings (Ballraces) that dissipate energy via balls to their tunnel.

So why not use a standard ballrace and save $$?

Q) But how to couple gear to the device?

A) with a ballbearing centred in the ballrace.

 

Insight into their original cones:

 

http://www.google.com/patents/US6655668

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US6655668.pdf

[Ice]

A very interessting thread with a touch of esoteric. Just the right mix for big discussions.

 

My humble opinion is this: https://www.getzner.com/en/products/sylomer

I used sylomer pads under the speakers and am happy with them.

Have also a look at: https://www.getzner.com/en/applications/industry/audio-technology

 

To test the effect i got a seismometer-app on iPhone and compare before and after on the floor directly next to the speakerstand.

[davide256]

I really like those Ingress bowls. They are exactly what I am looking for to replace the ceramic incense burners(which seem to work quite well for the moment). I like the fact that the incense burners hold my GT 2000 aloft from the granite block. It allows me to move the tuning weight around beneath the turntable. When I get the Ingress bowls, and I will be getting them, I'm going to get a local machinist to lathe three supporting columns to hold the three Ingress bowls. I would expect, given the wonderful results I am getting with the stop-gap ceramic incense burners to be multiplied when I put the Ingress bowls into this set-up. As I stated at AudioKarma, the set-up I have at the moment(which is exactly as you see it in those photos) works extremely well but it still remains a work in progress.

 

Because unlike the inner tube method the ring of Clearaudio Magix is comprised of 21 discrete elements, one has to strictly ensure that the load seen by each of the 21 Magix is shared evenly. Hence with this type of implementation the stress I've placed upon getting the Center Of Gravity correctly positioned. Doing that and tuning the load utterly remain the key to getting the results I have obtained. I surmise that if I could get a granite block cut to be circular, that would be even more advantageous. The local fellows who supplied and cut the granite for me can't cut circles. I should canvas the other stonemasons in my region to see if there are any who can.

 

As enthused as I am by the results I have obtained so far, I suspect that I've possibly only gotten a hint of what my method will yield down the track. That's a nice thing to hold onto.

 

Linn dealers used to demo how imaging and definition collapses when a TT is placed on a massive object vs on a lightweight rigid card table... massive objects are excellent conductors of low bass frequencies. In general a wall mounted TT shelf is best because its coupled to the wall and the mass is too light to conduct bass frequencies.

[Finleyville]

Wow. It just took me 3 days to read this whole thread. I am liking all of the back and forth discussion, advice, and experiments.

 

However, I do not remember one question being answered:

 

How do you use the roller/cup solution to floorstanding speakers when on thick carpet? Do you just rest the cups on the bare carpet? Do you use a solid base beneath the cups? If so, what material? Maple, granite, etc?

 

Right now I just have my speakers on cheap Parts Express spikes that poke through the carpet to the subfloor.

 

 

Also I see many people using the rollers especially underneath their DACs. I just recently picked up a Chord Mojo DAC that is only 3.2" x 2.4" x 0.9", pretty small. So any ideas to the ideal way to isolate/dampen this little piece of kit?

 

 

Any help is appreciated!

[YashN]

However, I do not remember one question being answered:

 

How do you use the roller/cup solution to floorstanding speakers when on thick carpet? Do you just rest the cups on the bare carpet? Do you use a solid base beneath the cups? If so, what material? Maple, granite, etc?

 

Both would work IMO. The more important things seem to be the surfaces in direct connection with the ball: you'd need a strong, flat, non-resonant material on top of the ball and ideally a totally flat, hard material beneath but since that has some practical issues, we use a slightly curved surface under the ball.

 

The problem you face with carpet is the difficulty in having a level surface, so perhaps to help with that, you'll want a heavy flat surface on the carpet before installing the 3 ball-and-cup arrangements for each speaker.

 

Right now I just have my speakers on cheap Parts Express spikes that poke through the carpet to the subfloor.

 

This will actually couple your speakers to your floor. Hence, any seismic vibrations will strongly be passed onto your speakers.

[Finleyville]

Both would work IMO. The more important things seem to be the surfaces in direct connection with the ball: you'd need a strong, flat, non-resonant material on top of the ball

 

The problem you face with carpet is the difficulty in having a level surface, so perhaps to help with that, you'll want a heavy flat surface on the carpet before installing the 3 ball-and-cup arrangements for each speaker.

 

The only problem I can foresee is that since my floorstanding speakers are DIY I purposely designed them so the tweeters are ear high at the listening position. So any thick supports etc will only raise my tweeter out of its optimal height. Grrr.

 

I will need to find a suitable, thin surface to place under my painted MDF speaker bottoms if I wish to utilize the roller bearings. What are other people using and their thickness?

 

 

If I do place a thick-ish (1"+) base for the rollerball floor platform should I spike that through the carpet?

[YashN]

If I do place a thick-ish (1"+) base for the rollerball floor platform should I spike that through the carpet?

 

Unnecessary: if it's heavy enough it won't slide over the carpet surface.

 

For the other surface, look for really flat, hard and non-resonant: you could build your own with a thin plate of metal to which you add a layer of rubber or something like that (constrained layer damping).

[ColtMrFire]

I tried Barry Diament's tire innertube/ball bearing isolation tweak on all my components, and while it vastly improved my sound setup (CD player - Schiit Modi multibit - Schiit Valhalla 2 - Beyerdynamic T90, all fed into a power conditioner), the sound seemed to regress and grow worse not long after... I kept tweaking things, getting more and more frustrated, trying to recapture the awesome improvement I initially heard... I'd read somewhere that audio tweaks need time to settle and the sound can change for the worse while things are "settling" until it reaches peak break in... is this what's going on? Does anyone who's done these kinds of tweaks have any experiences of this sort? Thanks.

[YashN]

I tried Barry Diament's tire innertube/ball bearing isolation tweak on all my components, and while it vastly improved my sound setup (CD player - Schiit Modi multibit - Schiit Valhalla 2 - Beyerdynamic T90, all fed into a power conditioner), the sound seemed to regress and grow worse not long after... I kept tweaking things, getting more and more frustrated, trying to recapture the awesome improvement I initially heard... I'd read somewhere that audio tweaks need time to settle and the sound can change for the worse while things are "settling" until it reaches peak break in... is this what's going on? Does anyone who's done these kinds of tweaks have any experiences of this sort? Thanks.

 

Not sure what's going on, but have you tried also isolating your power conditioner?

[theophile]

One of the reasons I went with the Clearaudio Magix was my frustration with innertubes leaking air over time. I wanted something I could expect to maintain its performance.

[ColtMrFire]

Not sure what's going on, but have you tried also isolating your power conditioner?

 

Yes I have.

 

I'm starting to suspect that I am instead hearing subpar recordings being revealed by the extreme clarity of the tweak, rather than any kind of "break in" trauma. Meaning, the tweak seems to remove so much coloration and interference, that you begin to hear just how well or badly something has been mastered... there were some recordings I listened to that started to sound dreadful, when I previously thought they sounded great... and great recordings took another leap forward. At least, this is my suspicion... I have not heard any other complaints about break in, so I think it's a safe assumption.

 

This of course is something that started to happen when I upgraded my gear to better components, but I'd never experienced it such an extreme degree.

[jabbr]

Clocks are particularly sensitive to the ground vibrations -- you might try tweaking the pressure in the inner tubes to see if that makes a difference for you --

 

 

Room treatments for headphone users

[cjf]

Wow. It just took me 3 days to read this whole thread. I am liking all of the back and forth discussion, advice, and experiments.

 

However, I do not remember one question being answered:

 

How do you use the roller/cup solution to floorstanding speakers when on thick carpet? Do you just rest the cups on the bare carpet? Do you use a solid base beneath the cups? If so, what material? Maple, granite, etc?

 

Right now I just have my speakers on cheap Parts Express spikes that poke through the carpet to the subfloor.

 

 

Also I see many people using the rollers especially underneath their DACs. I just recently picked up a Chord Mojo DAC that is only 3.2" x 2.4" x 0.9", pretty small. So any ideas to the ideal way to isolate/dampen this little piece of kit?

 

 

Any help is appreciated!

 

One option to consider for under your speakers and depending on your level of commitment to dealing with the issue of properly planting your speakers would be to cut out a square or circle of carpet from under to the speaker to directly expose the subfloor. Then start from there. Understandably this is more hard core then most folks are willing to go but I thnk anything short of this will be a compromise.

 

What kind of subfloor are you working with? Suspended wood, concrete slab, tile...etc?

 

Since your speakers are wood then I think spikes are really the only way to go in which case why not start cheap and grab a set of Herbies Audio Labs slider cups in combination with your already present spikes?

 

I've recently deployed a set of these myself with great success under my speakers to help reduce the rumble and spring board nature of my suspended wooden floor in my 120yr old house.

 

Personaly I don't think roller balls will work well under a wooden speaker unless two things are done first:

 

1: you cut away the carpet under the speaker

2: you rest the blocks on a hard surface first then you use another metal surface on the underside of the speaker cabinet for the rollerball to rest against...ie metal on metal for the balls

 

Symposium provides a nicely flat and hard set of Stainless Steel squares about the thickness of a quarter to use with their roller based products for just this purpose. But with that said, I think gong the rollerball route under a speaker is really only for those with a dedicated room with no chance of outside interference that may bump or move the speakers after they are setup. Too risky in my opinion.

 

Long story short, cut the carpet, use your current spikes and purchase a set of Herbies and call it a day....IMO of course

[sphinxsix]

Among the best audio furniture I have ever seen :

 

 

 

A remark : the 'flagship' speaker stand - the 'clamping' model doesn't make sense IMO - it typically makes the speakers sound dull. The remaining stuff is pure perfection.

[jabbr]

Among the best audio furniture I have ever seen :

 

 

 

A remark : the 'flagship' speaker stand - the 'clamping' model doesn't make sense IMO - it typically makes the speakers sound dull. The remaining stuff is pure perfection.

 

Looks really pretty but spikes transmit vibrations quite well. For real isolation use balls & cups for horizontal. True isolation of vertical vibrations is more difficult

[lotriwer]

These look great, found them on WBF:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25015[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

I like the idea.

 

Can you provide the link? What are they?

[YashN]

Can you provide the link? What are they?

 

I don't have the link but a Google image search or a Google search for the words below the post might bring you to the post at WBF. The words below the post also describe what they do.

[YashN]

Looks really pretty but spikes transmit vibrations quite well. For real isolation use balls & cups for horizontal. True isolation of vertical vibrations is more difficult

 

I agree, if there's anything to be learned from the thread is that seismic isolation is fundamental and isolation is different from coupling, which the spikes do. Now, this is not saying you cannot combine one and the other, but the seismic one is more important as per Townshend.

 

So, the design and finish look great but too many spikes...

 

For the vertical isolation, the air cushion helps. Actually, the air cushion when partially inflated can also help with isolation in other axes of motion, so coupling it with the ball-and-cup is definitely a good idea.

 

I believe it is in the first half of the thread where I linked to some research papers for seismic isolation of buildings, these are a good read, or else the Wikipedia page on seismic waves provide more info: I sort of remember reading and posting that one of the two main types of seismic waves doesn't pass through water, so if it's the vertical one, you could envision a water-filled layer for isolation here.

[Jud]

I sort of remember reading and posting that one of the two main types of seismic waves doesn't pass through water, so if it's the vertical one, you could envision a water-filled layer for isolation here.

 

Water might not pass seismic waves, but as we all learned back in our early swimming pool days, it transmits audible-range acoustic vibrations really well. Also, I personally have a talent for disasters with inanimate objects, so H2O in the vicinity of expensive electronics is probably a no-no for me.