Equipment isolation and vibration damping.

[Cornan]

If money is no object I would recommend the Entreq ES PAD Feets which is something extraordinary. Only listen to them at a local dealer compared to Nordost Sort Kones and was way too expensive for my budget.

My own personal favorites (which I use myself) are the Entreq Catfoots (which is lately replaced by the Lynx feets) works in a similar way with a mineral mix which drain away energy/vibrations and converts it to low level heat. No woodoo...just extremely effective IMO.

YMMV applies as always!

[Middy]

Hi gent's I haven't read all posts but have you seen these. Maybe enough room for a ball bearing... Magnetic spring type device

 

1 PCS D48*H40 Sound Isolation amplifier CD Spikes Maglev feet HIFI audio Stand mat

 

http://s.aliexpress.com/eQJ7fUrY

(from AliExpress Android)

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[jabbr]

All springs are springs and pass low frequency vibrations. All "stuff" which is elastic goo also passes low frequency vibrations -- the low frequency vibrations which come from the earth are too massive to be absorbed by a little smidgeon of gel

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[semente]

One option to consider for under your speakers and depending on your level of commitment to dealing with the issue of properly planting your speakers would be to cut out a square or circle of carpet from under to the speaker to directly expose the subfloor. Then start from there. Understandably this is more hard core then most folks are willing to go but I thnk anything short of this will be a compromise.

 

What kind of subfloor are you working with? Suspended wood, concrete slab, tile...etc?

 

Since your speakers are wood then I think spikes are really the only way to go in which case why not start cheap and grab a set of Herbies Audio Labs slider cups in combination with your already present spikes?

 

I've recently deployed a set of these myself with great success under my speakers to help reduce the rumble and spring board nature of my suspended wooden floor in my 120yr old house.

 

Personaly I don't think roller balls will work well under a wooden speaker unless two things are done first:

 

1: you cut away the carpet under the speaker

2: you rest the blocks on a hard surface first then you use another metal surface on the underside of the speaker cabinet for the rollerball to rest against...ie metal on metal for the balls

 

Symposium provides a nicely flat and hard set of Stainless Steel squares about the thickness of a quarter to use with their roller based products for just this purpose. But with that said, I think gong the rollerball route under a speaker is really only for those with a dedicated room with no chance of outside interference that may bump or move the speakers after they are setup. Too risky in my opinion.

 

Long story short, cut the carpet, use your current spikes and purchase a set of Herbies and call it a day....IMO of course

I would have thought that the carpet does a nice job of decoupling the speakers from the floor.

If the base is wide enough to make them stable this might be a good idea.

 

R

[semente]

I don't know if this article has been mentioned before but it's got interesting information:

 

 

Spikes and Cones – What’s the point?

 

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/cones/speak.html

 

R

[jabbr]

A good review article which discusses advantages of different techniques: Recent advances in nonlinear passive vibration isolators

 

I think that if spikes have an effect on speaker performance it would be because they tightly couple the speaker to the floor and allow the floor itself to act as a radiator.

[Cornan]

All springs are springs and pass low frequency vibrations. All "stuff" which is elastic goo also passes low frequency vibrations -- the low frequency vibrations which come from the earth are too massive to be absorbed by a little smidgeon of gel

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I do not know if you are refering to the Entreq feets? These are not that elastic or made of gel. Very solid base and quite firm top that adjust to the weight. Inside is filled with crystal stones (clear Quartz?) that turns pressure (and movement) into heat.

 

Entreq feets are constructed with similar ideas to the Acoustic Revive Quartz under board RST-38H.

[semente]

A good review article which discusses advantages of different techniques: Recent advances in nonlinear passive vibration isolators

 

I think that if spikes have an effect on speaker performance it would be because they tightly couple the speaker to the floor and allow the floor itself to act as a radiator.

 

But I think a rigid link works both ways so it also transmits vibrations from floor to speaker.

And whilst a "lossy" support absorbs vibrations a rigid one will only change its frequency to a higher, more audible (as per equal loudness contour curves) pitch.

 

The same is true for speaker cabinets: the harder the material and structure the longer it'll "ring".

 

R

[Jud]

But I think a rigid link works both ways so it also transmits vibrations from floor to speaker.

And whilst a "lossy" support absorbs vibrations a rigid one will only change its frequency to a higher, more audible (as per equal loudness contour curves) pitch.

 

The same is true for speaker cabinets: the harder the material and structure the longer it'll "ring".

 

R

 

In the late 1980s when I first bought Vandersteen speakers, Vandersteen included their own stands but actually recommended stands from a company called Sound Anchors. In the process of deciding whether to bother upgrading stands, I spoke to the Sound Anchors principal. He was very well aware of the ringing problem at that time and talked to me about the steps he'd taken to prevent it in his stand designs.

 

It is of course always possible to get stands designed primarily to look pretty or based on unsound (no pun intended) ideas. But speaker supports are a non-exotic mechanical engineering problem, and I would guess one can find designs that will minimize or prevent the more widely known problems. As one can tell from surveying the market, ball-and-cup arrangements or other designs meant to minimize seismic vibrations are relatively rare, so either this is not a well known problem or most designers have decided to dismiss it (whether properly or not).

[semente]

This system from something solid seems like an interesting approach to attacking the problem :

 

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/something_solid_xr4_pt1_e.html

[Cornan]

When it comes down to speaker feets alone the SoundCare Supernova are my personal favorites on wooden floor SOUNDCARE SUPERNOVA Pointes SuperSpikes 5/16" (Coffret de 4) - Audiophonics

 

[jabbr]

Wow. It just took me 3 days to read this whole thread. I am liking all of the back and forth discussion, advice, and experiments.

 

However, I do not remember one question being answered:

 

How do you use the roller/cup solution to floorstanding speakers when on thick carpet? Do you just rest the cups on the bare carpet? Do you use a solid base beneath the cups? If so, what material? Maple, granite, etc?

 

Right now I just have my speakers on cheap Parts Express spikes that poke through the carpet to the subfloor.

 

 

Also I see many people using the rollers especially underneath their DACs. I just recently picked up a Chord Mojo DAC that is only 3.2" x 2.4" x 0.9", pretty small. So any ideas to the ideal way to isolate/dampen this little piece of kit?

 

 

Any help is appreciated!

 

The idea is to place down an 18" square piece of plywood onto which the rollerball cups and balls are placed, followed by an 18" square piece of marble as a base.

 

I use 7075 aluminum cups (2" diameter cup) with either Silicon Carbide or Silicon Nitride balls.

[lmitche]

The idea is to place down an 18" square piece of plywood onto which the rollerball cups and balls are placed, followed by an 18" square piece of marble as a base.

 

I use 7075 aluminum cups (2" diameter cup) with either Silicon Carbide or Silicon Nitride balls.

Oh wow, and I thought balls of steel were best!

[Jud]

Oh wow, and I thought balls of steel were best!

 

Here I always thought it was brass balls.

 

There once was a man from the past,

Who had two balls made of brass.

One day in bad weather,

He struck them together,

And lightning shot out of his ass.

[Jud]

The idea is to place down an 18" square piece of plywood onto which the rollerball cups and balls are placed, followed by an 18" square piece of marble as a base.

 

I use 7075 aluminum cups (2" diameter cup) with either Silicon Carbide or Silicon Nitride balls.

 

Oh wow, and I thought balls of steel were best!

 

But seriously, folks -

 

- Barry Diament mentioned he would have liked to use tungsten carbide balls, but they cost more than he wanted to spend. Depending on where you purchase them and how many you want to use (your whole system, just a component or two, just your speakers...), they might be affordable for you.

 

- I do wonder whether using the same materials or materials of reasonably similar hardness for cups and balls is better, or whether dissimilar materials might be better to avoid propagation of resonances.

 

I also think the partially inflated pneumatic tube is important for the vertical component of vibrations, and wonder whether every one's the same or if there are better and worse tubes to use (I know, at this point audiophile OCD has struck). More than that, I'd be interested to know whether anyone has done the pneumatic tube thing with large heavy speakers, and whether it was reasonably simple keeping them stable and level. Or doesn't Barry recommend using the pneumatic tube with speakers? (I can't access his article - his websites seem to be down, at least temporarily.)

[jabbr]

Here I always thought it was brass balls.

 

There once was a man from the past,

Who had two balls made of brass.

One day in bad weather,

He struck them together,

And lightning shot out of his ass.

 

Clearly a DIY amplifier!

[jabbr]

Um ... Silicon Carbide is what the SemiSouth n100 jfets in my Amplifier are made from, as @Jud said, I meant Tungsten Carbide for the balls -- Silicon Nitride is nearly as hard and much more cost effective [emoji41]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AnotherSpin]

Clearly a DIY amplifier!

You can't always get a bad weather for proper functioning of this particular design.

[semente]

The idea is to place down an 18" square piece of plywood onto which the rollerball cups and balls are placed, followed by an 18" square piece of marble as a base.

 

I use 7075 aluminum cups (2" diameter cup) with either Silicon Carbide or Silicon Nitride balls.

That appears to be creating a hard link.

I would rather use squash balls or at least something that would absorb vibration.

 

R

[semente]

Alternatively you could use two layers of plywood and sandwich some decoupling material between them, like cork, sorbothane, neoprene, etc.

[jabbr]

That appears to be creating a hard link.

I would rather use squash balls or at least something that would absorb vibration.

 

R

 

Try what you like but this design is very effective at decoupling 2 of 3 axes of vibration. The third axis (vertical) can be handled with a partially inflated 18" inner tube.

 

Many things that will "absorb" vibration also transmit vibrations at certain typically low frequencies

[Jud]

Um ... Silicon Carbide is what the SemiSouth n100 jfets in my Amplifier are made from

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is this the First Watt?

[jabbr]

@Jud -- yes the J2 -- I meant R100 -- https://www.digchip.com/datasheets/download_datasheet.php?id=3287316&part-number=SJEP120R100A

 

There are other variations including the R085 and the PASS-1 special variation used in the SIT-1/2 http://www.semiconductor-today.com/news_items/2011/JULY/SEMISOUTH_300711.html

[sandyk]

In the late 1980s when I first bought Vandersteen speakers, Vandersteen included their own stands but actually recommended stands from a company called Sound Anchors. In the process of deciding whether to bother upgrading stands, I spoke to the Sound Anchors principal. He was very well aware of the ringing problem at that time and talked to me about the steps he'd taken to prevent it in his stand designs.

 

It is of course always possible to get stands designed primarily to look pretty or based on unsound (no pun intended) ideas. But speaker supports are a non-exotic mechanical engineering problem, and I would guess one can find designs that will minimize or prevent the more widely known problems. As one can tell from surveying the market, ball-and-cup arrangements or other designs meant to minimize seismic vibrations are relatively rare, so either this is not a well known problem or most designers have decided to dismiss it (whether properly or not).

 

Hi Jud

Please check your PMs for the answer to your question for Barry.

 

Regards

Alex

[JohnSwenson]

I have been experimenting with a somewhat unusual method for isolating small light weight devices (such as a microRendu): suspend it from low constant springs, my favorite is Slinky Juniors. If you make it a couple feet long you get low frequency resonance in the horizontal planes (normal pendulum) and low frequency vertical resonance from the low spring constant.

 

There are some issues:

the cables have to be very flexible and light weight, I had to make my own short pieces of cable to make this work.

There is very little damping so it keeps on swinging for some time if disturbed. Its hard to do much damping without changing the isolation effectiveness.

 

A rather unusual approach but it does work very well.

 

I don't have this setup right now to take a picture, with what is going on right now I am constantly moving devices around,this scheme does not work well under those conditions.

 

John S.