I have a question about modern pop music

[Jawaburger]

I'm sure that there is money changing hands

 

But no-one has yet answered my question. Are these ditties considered good pop music by anyone, or is it just filler? IOW, does anyone here actually like any of it? If it is actually popular with the general audience for these shows, then I really have no gripe with it. After all, just because I can't identify with it (or even that I find it annoying) is really of no consequence or importance. I'd just like to know if this is what is considered good modern pop music. I have no feel for an answer to that.

 

From what I have seen/heard, most of the songs during these show are fringe/alternative pop songs. They are not really mainstream because those would cost too much money, but they are known enough that I recognize some of them.

[davidbeinct]

Some of the programs that I have noticed that do this as a matter of course are: Hawaii Five-O, The Mentalist, Criminal Minds, Scorpion, NCIS, CSI, etc. The last scenes in each episode eliminate all dialog and some "pop"-style singer starts caterwauling some insipid, self-serving and ultimately worthless, sentimental ditty over the action. It reminds me of some other gimmicks that are done to death in modern movies and TV. Like freeze-framing action, adding impossible amounts of digital blood and having an attacker with a sword leap an impossible distance into the air getting momentarily frozen at the apex of his leap, and then coming down on his opponent with spear or sword. Once in a while is OK, but in every fight scene. it becomes a cliche. I feel the same way about the use of these pop ditties. I usually just kill the audio when they start "singing".

 

Maybe try some different shows? In my opinion, the best of TV today is the best there has ever been. The worst is the worst there has ever been. Those shows you mention fall in the middle. They are certainly not as good as the best of earlier days. They are as formulaic as mediocre TV has ever been, albeit with better, or at least more current, production values.

 

The good news is you don't have to wait for reruns to get the best of modern TV. Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon are all good sources of streaming television.

 

Mad Men, mentioned earlier, is a great place to start, it's riveting TV without any blood, guts or gore.

[Paul R]

In one of those odd truth is stranger than sarcasm moments, my daughter decided to watch the original episode of the original Hawaii 5 0 this evening. (I used to watch that when I was about 12). It did not age well. Then, we watched Lewis, which is the successor of Morse, but did in fact inherit a faster tempo version of the Morse theme song. In the show, they had a track from The Who. I swear I am not making this up!

 

Morse and Lewis both are filled with wonderful music, both classical and contemporary.

 

-Paul

[orgel]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Miami Vice. At the time, and now, I thought that show broke new ground in how music was used in a TV series, from the cool Jan Hammer theme, to the major pop hits used to great effect (IMO) during the episodes, to the use of pop stars themselves as actors.

 

For me, another (unrelated) great musical moment in a TV series was the use of a Richard Thompson cover of "Season of the Witch" in an episode of Crossing Jordan. (Looks like you can still get that on a CD with some other worthwhile tracks from Amazon for $4.99.

 

Now I mostly watch the news and PBS, so I'm out of it.

 

—David

[kumakuma]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Miami Vice. At the time, and now, I thought that show broke new ground in how music was used in a TV series, from the cool Jan Hammer theme, to the major pop hits used to great effect (IMO) during the episodes, to the use of pop stars themselves as actors.

 

Let's not forget the facial hair

 

[orgel]

Let's not forget the facial hair

 

 

Yeah, the fashion-related aspects of the show, while influential at the time, probably don't hold up as well. Even at the time, I thought wearing one's white sport jacket, with sleeves pushed up, over a brightly colored t-shirt, was probably not going to stand the test of time.

 

 

—David

[gmgraves]

George, there is your problem right there. If you want a better class of music you have to watch a better class of TV ! Just kidding, but I would say it is difficult to judge rock classics from The Who if not delivered over a good sound system and in the right setting including being in the mood for that genre of music. Most music sounds terrible over a TV set including major orchestral works, to my ears anyway.

 

 

 

A compulsive disorder, Bill ?

 

 

You don't seem to understand. I don't care about any TV music. I just noticed the phenomenon and wondered what people who like pop music think of what seems to me to be gratuitous pop songs, thrown into the TV shows' final minutes for ????? reason. The last TV music that I actually *liked* was Elmer Bernstein's theme for the first season of "Riverboat" and that was more than 50 years ago!

 

I love classic movie music, though. Especially Rozsa, Tiomkin, Alfred Newman, etc.

[gmgraves]

From what I have seen/heard, most of the songs during these show are fringe/alternative pop songs. They are not really mainstream because those would cost too much money, but they are known enough that I recognize some of them.

 

 

Thank you, Jawaburger!

[gmgraves]

Maybe try some different shows? In my opinion, the best of TV today is the best there has ever been. The worst is the worst there has ever been. Those shows you mention fall in the middle. They are certainly not as good as the best of earlier days. They are as formulaic as mediocre TV has ever been, albeit with better, or at least more current, production values.

 

The good news is you don't have to wait for reruns to get the best of modern TV. Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon are all good sources of streaming television.

 

Mad Men, mentioned earlier, is a great place to start, it's riveting TV without any blood, guts or gore.

 

 

Again, I'm not really complaining, I'm asking for other people's opinions about a phenomenon that I have noticed. Mostly I watch British dramas from PBS (when available). But occasionally I do watch some CBS programming, and no, it doesn't really hold a candle to the British stuff like Morse, Poirot, Miss Marple, Foyle's War, et al. The British stuff has better acting, much better writing, and more sophisticated plots (and no commercial interruptions).

[gmgraves]

Morse and Lewis both are filled with wonderful music, both classical and contemporary.

 

-Paul

 

+1

[bobbmd]

agree completely with above great songs within each episodes plus the theme music but the facial hair reminds me of the time i walked into my ed after 18hr shift at another hospital and someone asked 'why the facial hair? i responded it's just my 'don johnson look' and some nurse responded(i never found out who it was) from an exam room 'do you mean don johnson's crotch'

[esldude]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Miami Vice. At the time, and now, I thought that show broke new ground in how music was used in a TV series, from the cool Jan Hammer theme, to the major pop hits used to great effect (IMO) during the episodes, to the use of pop stars themselves as actors.

 

For me, another (unrelated) great musical moment in a TV series was the use of a Richard Thompson cover of "Season of the Witch" in an episode of Crossing Jordan. (Looks like you can still get that on a CD with some other worthwhile tracks from Amazon for $4.99.

 

Now I mostly watch the news and PBS, so I'm out of it.

 

—David

 

Yes, I happened to catch the Richard Thompson in Crossing Jordan. And yes Miami Vice had then current or recently current popular music. Usually tasteful in context. Actual perhaps the only truly tasteful thing about the show. Yes I did watch it back then.

 

Maybe a related topic is the appearance of high end gear in TV and movies. House's SOTA being perhaps the most obvious. Anyone happen to know the movie where Dick Van Dyke was an actor that had Acoustat speakers in his office?

[Allan F]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Miami Vice. At the time, and now, I thought that show broke new ground in how music was used in a TV series, from the cool Jan Hammer theme, to the major pop hits used to great effect (IMO) during the episodes, to the use of pop stars themselves as actors.

 

I would go back much further to Henry Mancini's music at both the opening and during the episodes of "Peter Gunn".

 

George, as you probably know, a lot of the music that you dislike associated with television shows was put there in the hope of attracting a younger demographic.

[senorx]

I'm not talking about a show's theme music, although some of that can be pretty annoying as well. I used to have to make a dive for the mute button when the theme for CSI Miami started (Something called "I Won't Get Fooled Again") or the Las Vegas CSI ("Who Are You"). Just awful!

 

But the Morse theme was written by a guy named Barrington Pheloung. I don't anything about any "Pearl Jam", but the Morse theme was written in the 1980's.

 

At least you are consistent in your distaste, the two csi songs are both The Who.

[senorx]

"Pop" music is not really one thing, as with classical music from different eras and tradition. Pop is often used as a word signifying "popular," meaning it sells a lot, or many people like it. Think anything from Beyonce to Kanye to John Mayer to Katy Perry and even Daft Punk. Now these artists' music really have very little in common with each other, yet they all sell well to some degree. Therefore I wouldn't call "pop" used in this sense a genre, as the only qualifier has nothing to do with any quality of the music itself, just it's saleability. If it's on the billboard charts, it is probably "pop" in this sense.

 

"Pop" has also been used to describe "anything I don't like" by people who like relatively less popular genres like classical and jazz. I imagine that you kind of use the term in this sense Mr. Graves, although I don't know you, I imagine you like classical music from your posts. Even Country fans have been known to use this term in this way, though there is much overlap now as country music often hits the pop charts these days.

 

In my experience, much, if not most, music in TV shows and to a lesser extent movies, falls into a category commonly called indie pop, alternative pop, or even sometimes "power pop." In this context, "pop" is more about the music itself than how popular it is, as some of it sells pretty well, and some not so much, (although it is generally nowhere near as popular as Beyonce or Taylor Swift.) This is the genre of music I listen to most, and would include anything from Foo Fighters, to Ben Folds or Jason Falkner. It tends to be concise songs with a pretty conventional verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, chorus type of structure. I think the artists tend to be a little more concerned with sound qualities other than volume, and also are a little more concerned with the quality of the songwriting, including lyrics. Almost all artists in this "genre," if that's what it is, will cite one, or all, of the following artists as inspiration; The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Todd Rundgren, Badfinger, Cheap Trick, and for the younger ones, Jellyfish.

 

I am certain that a producer/director will use music in order to convey something about the emotional content of their work first and foremost, but it's not surprising that they would use music that they like, and I'm sure that is usually the case. Since the genre of the music I like is often the genre you find so annoying, I'm very happy with most of the music used in TV and movies today, as long as it fits. In fact, I find many new artists from TV and movie soundtracks; The Shins, American Hi-Fi, and Elliot Smith come to mind. I hope this helps.

[Allan F]

"Pop" has also been used to describe "anything I don't like" by people who like only relatively less popular genres like classical and jazz. I imagine that you kind of use the term in this sense Mr. Graves, although I don't know you, I imagine you like classical music from your posts. Even Country fans have been known to use this term in this way, though there is much overlap now as country music often hits the pop charts these days.

 

Kurt, I hope that you don't mind me taking the liberty of adding one word (in bold) to your passage.

[senorx]

Kurt, I hope that you don't mind me taking the liberty of adding one word (in bold) to your passage.

 

Thank you. With your addition, it actually reflects more accurately what I was trying to convey.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?

Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.

[krass]

I have said nothing against those who do like it, and in fact, I think I've made it clear that I'd like for someone who does like it to come forward and explain it to me.

 

I just checked Spotify as one possible source of info to help you understand if people actually like the songs that annoy you.

Both of the Who songs you quoted are hovering around the 11,000,000 plays mark.

I think it can be confirmed that these 2 songs are indeed quite popular and quite a lot of people actually do like them, really.

[gmgraves]

I would go back much further to Henry Mancini's music at both the opening and during the episodes of "Peter Gunn".

 

Henry Mancini was probably the greatest composer of (non-rock) pop songs since Cole Porter. He was also an excellent TV/film score composer (Peter Gunn, Mr. Lucky, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Pink Panther, etc.)

 

George, as you probably know, a lot of the music that you dislike associated with television shows was put there in the hope of attracting a younger demographic.

 

While I'm sure you are right about that, my question is still "is that ploy successful?" IOW, does it attract a younger demographic? Do the younger audiences appreciate that effort, or even like the songs? I have no feel for it. And again, for the record, the fact that I don't like that kind of music is really irrelevant to my inquiry.

[gmgraves]

At least you are consistent in your distaste, the two csi songs are both The Who.

 

 

So I've been told.

[gmgraves]

"Pop" music is not really one thing, as with classical music from different eras and tradition. Pop is often used as a word signifying "popular," meaning it sells a lot, or many people like it. Think anything from Beyonce to Kanye to John Mayer to Katy Perry and even Daft Punk. Now these artists' music really have very little in common with each other, yet they all sell well to some degree. Therefore I wouldn't call "pop" used in this sense a genre, as the only qualifier has nothing to do with any quality of the music itself, just it's saleability. If it's on the billboard charts, it is probably "pop" in this sense.

 

The definition of pop as signifying "topically popular" is how I use it, and to me it includes anything that's not classical or jazz or folk.

 

"Pop" has also been used to describe "anything I don't like" by people who like relatively less popular genres like classical and jazz. I imagine that you kind of use the term in this sense Mr. Graves, although I don't know you, I imagine you like classical music from your posts. Even Country fans have been known to use this term in this way, though there is much overlap now as country music often hits the pop charts these days.

 

Primarily, I see pop music as genres that are very commercial which exist only in a studio or studio-like environment and rely heavily on electronic instrumentation (especially electric guitars, which I actually despise. Personally, I'd rather listen to bagpipes 24 hours a day that hear one minute of a solid-body electric guitar!). Mostly, on this forum, my use of pop covers rock, rap, hip-hop, reggae, etc. I don't dislike all music that can be described, generally, as pop. Genres such as the so-called "American Songbook" (Sinatra) and swing era music are just fine, I like the popular folk music of the 50's and 60's (Joan Baez, Ian & Silvia, Richard and Mimi Farina, even the Kingston Trio, and Peter, Paul, & Mary etc.) but I don't listen to it any more. I admit that the word "pop" is painting with a very broad brush, but I don't know of a more precise term that covers the bases.

 

 

In my experience, much, if not most, music in TV shows and to a lesser extent movies, falls into a category commonly called indie pop, alternative pop, or even sometimes "power pop." In this context, "pop" is more about the music itself than how popular it is, as some of it sells pretty well, and some not so much, (although it is generally nowhere near as popular as Beyonce or Taylor Swift.) This is the genre of music I listen to most, and would include anything from Foo Fighters, to Ben Folds or Jason Falkner. It tends to be concise songs with a pretty conventional verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, chorus type of structure. I think the artists tend to be a little more concerned with sound qualities other than volume, and also are a little more concerned with the quality of the songwriting, including lyrics. Almost all artists in this "genre," if that's what it is, will cite one, or all, of the following artists as inspiration; The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Todd Rundgren, Badfinger, Cheap Trick, and for the younger ones, Jellyfish.

 

Again, like you say, the category is so broad that it's difficult to find a single word or phrase that concisely categorizes a specific genre or set of genres.

 

I am certain that a producer/director will use music in order to convey something about the emotional content of their work first and foremost, but it's not surprising that they would use music that they like, and I'm sure that is usually the case. Since the genre of the music I like is often the genre you find so annoying, I'm very happy with most of the music used in TV and movies today, as long as it fits. In fact, I find many new artists from TV and movie soundtracks; The Shins, American Hi-Fi, and Elliot Smith come to mind. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks. It certainly does. I used to love most movie music, but this was when Elmer Bernstein, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ron Goodwin, John Barry, and a dozen or so more dominated the movie music scene. They're mostly gone now, and Williams is quite elderly, but I find most of today's film composers' work (like Daniel Shore's) to be bland beyond belief. My real movie music love goes back to "classic" Hollywood with scores like Alfred Newman's Captain From Castile, or Rozsa's Ben-Hur or Four Feathers, or El Cid or Time After Time, or Bernstein's To Kill a Mockingbird, or The Magnificent Seven, or Ten Commandments, and Victor Young's Shane, or For whom the Bell Tolls, or Around the World in 80 Days, Almost any of John Barry's Bond scores (especially the themes sung by Shirley Bassey) or Raise the Titanic, Korngold's King's Row (which John Williams ripped-off for his Star Wars theme). Needless to say, I can go on and on, but you get the idea.

[gmgraves]

I just checked Spotify as one possible source of info to help you understand if people actually like the songs that annoy you.

Both of the Who songs you quoted are hovering around the 11,000,000 plays mark.

I think it can be confirmed that these 2 songs are indeed quite popular and quite a lot of people actually do like them, really.

 

 

Those Who songs are not at all what I'm talking about. They are (obviously) mainstream rock-'n-roll songs and were used as the main title themes for these CSI shows and are just as obviously popular and were popular before these shows ever used them. The songs I'm talking about have no titles (except maybe they flash by in an instant during the end titles), and are, as far as I can see, by mostly unknown composers/performers and are used as "filler" at the end of these shows. Different thing altogether

[senorx]

George, watch Good Will Hunting and see if you don't like some of the music. You might hate it, but it is certainly evocative, which I would imagine is what moviemakers would be going for. It's also a pretty good movie, so it shouldn't be too hard.

[Allan F]

Henry Mancini was probably the greatest composer of (non-rock) pop songs since Cole Porter. He was also an excellent TV/film score composer (Peter Gunn, Mr. Lucky, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Pink Panther, etc.)

 

I wholeheartedly agree on both counts.

 

While I'm sure you are right about that, my question is still "is that ploy successful?" IOW, does it attract a younger demographic? Do the younger audiences appreciate that effort, or even like the songs? I have no feel for it. And again, for the record, the fact that I don't like that kind of music is really irrelevant to my inquiry.

 

I'm sorry, I don't know. Presumably, the producers would have hired some firm to research the effect on that demographic, but that's just speculation on my part.